Does any one here remeber the adds on buble gum or on cerial boxes of order this book or plan and become a black belt, become invinceble, How about Count Dante?
Oh yay: Earn Your Black Belt Online Anytime Anywhere
- Thread starter Bill Mattocks
- Start date
Monroe
Purple Belt
Why? I find an arrogant person jumping in over their head has entertainment value.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
It is also Disrespectful to the Art for them to even be put in that Position, when they do not Deserve it.
Monroe
Purple Belt
So then it's a tradition. Because it isn't disrespectful in the least in other sports. It's just idiocy.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Not all Arts are Sports. You may well be Overlooking this.
And an Art doesnt need to be Traditional to not be a Sport.
I Refer once more to Kajukenbo.
Monroe
Purple Belt
But what art ranks it's artists?
Cyriacus
Senior Master
...Most Arts, of course?
Aikido has Belts.
Wing Chun mostly uses Different Colored Shirts.
Kenpo has Belts.
And so forth.
Monroe
Purple Belt
I was referring to outside of MA. I don't have a belt that ranks me as a sketch artist.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Oh. Then by the Comparison, youre misinterpriting the term Martial Art.
Martial Style/Form/Method/Way would be more Accurate.
Art, simply refers to were you can alter it a bit. You can give any Artist a Brush, but they wont all Paint the same things, let alone in the same way.
Right Leg Front Kick, will be my Example.
To begin with, it can be Front Leg or Rear Leg.
Next, some People keep their Left Foot Straight, others Rotate it anywere up to 90 Degrees to the side.
Some People choose to keep their Left Heel on the Floor, others come to the Ball of their Foot.
Some People Aim for the Midsection, others the Solar Plexus, Chest, Ribs, Neck, Kneecap, and so forth.
Some People Snap their Leg Back, others Hold it Out for a Bare Moment.
Some People Re-Chamber, Others Dont.
Some People Come Back after the Kick, others Step Down.
Some People Pull or even Push One or Both In or Out, Respectively.
Some People keep their Hips Square, others Anywere up to 45 Degrees Offset.
Most People Front Kick with the Ball of the Foot; Others use the Flat of the Foot or the Heel.
I can name many more Variables, but ultimately, the Art part refers not to the Style, but to what you can do with it outside of its Preset.
Monroe
Purple Belt
I'm trying to understand the purpose of ranking. I can understand it as a traditional sign of respect. We do lots of things traditionally to show respect. But you're saying it's not for tradition. So then what is it? If ranking isn't competition and isn't for tradition, then what's left?
Cyriacus
Senior Master
To Provide Recognition of Skill, Knowledge, and Capacity.
Mostly for the Benefit of the Instructor, not the Student.
The Main Reason youre having Trouble seeing this, is Lack of Experience. No Offense.
Bowing to an Instructor at a Traditional Dojo/Dojang/Hall/Whatever isnt Tradition. Its Respect. Because they Bow back. All thats Traditional is that youre Bowing instead of Shaking Hands. And if you DO Shake Hands, you do it in a Certain Way.
Belts and Ranks also Provide Recognition to the Student of their Level. One might Argue that this is Unnecessary, but this is were Martial Arts vary from Sports Variations.
In a Sport, you are Scoring Points. In a Martial Art, youre Learning to Engage in Combat.
Tradition is Associated by such things purely due to the Idea that only a Traditional Organisation would be Not-Sports-Geared.
To which I Reply:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHMgsx2hkJ0
Ed Parkers (Or is that Gracies? Some Kenpo Guy will know
Point stands either way really) American Kenpo is an American Martial Art. It is called Kenpo Karate due to its Foundation, but the Art Originated in the USA.They have Belts, Formalities, and everything. And they are NOT Striking for Points.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wt-mJEKf5n8
An Example of Not-Sport Taekwondo. Note 22:00 - He Kicks with the Ball of the Foot, instead of the Instep (And before a KKW Person jumps in, I know that they teach a Turn Kick also. But it isnt a Primary Kick, and the Instep Variation is drastically more Common, is what im saying.). A Traditional Application.
They are Wearing Belts to Symbolise his Capabilities, and Understanding.
As well as, as an Offnote, Physical Conditioning, Strength, and Focus.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oFImiXh20kc
Kajukenbo Karate - A Hawii Originating MA, based on more than just Karate, but ultimately forming its own Style. It is not a Traditional Art, but it holds some Values which are considered Traditional. Their Belts represent what they have been Taught, and their Capacities.
The Bottom Line, is that Rank Represents:
The Experience of the Practitioner.
The Knowledge of the Practitioner.
The Understanding of the Practitioner.
And Provides Recognition to the Practitioner, that they may know that they have Progressed (Albeit that goes without saying - Im mainly mentioning everything here possible)
Optionally, you may be doubtful of your own Capacity to Gain Rank, as I believe you said in one of your First Threads, or in a Reply to another Thread. It was a while ago.
In which Case, you may be Minimizing your View of Ranks, for your own Perceived Benefit.
But if this doesnt give you some Retrospect, not much else will.
To Provide Recognition of Skill, Knowledge, and Capacity.
Mostly for the Benefit of the Instructor, not the Student.
The Main Reason youre having Trouble seeing this, is Lack of Experience. No Offense.
Bowing to an Instructor at a Traditional Dojo/Dojang/Hall/Whatever isnt Tradition. Its Respect. Because they Bow back. All thats Traditional is that youre Bowing instead of Shaking Hands. And if you DO Shake Hands, you do it in a Certain Way.
Belts and Ranks also Provide Recognition to the Student of their Level. One might Argue that this is Unnecessary, but this is were Martial Arts vary from Sports Variations.
In a Sport, you are Scoring Points. In a Martial Art, youre Learning to Engage in Combat.
Tradition is Associated by such things purely due to the Idea that only a Traditional Organisation would be Not-Sports-Geared.
To which I Reply:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lHMgsx2hkJ0
Ed Parkers (Or is that Gracies? Some Kenpo Guy will know
They have Belts, Formalities, and everything. And they are NOT Striking for Points.
Its Jeff Speakman's Kenpo 5.0. Mr. Speakman's interpretation of Ed Parker's Kenpo, transformed to also include grappling material from (I think) Trevor Sherman and Todd Nathanson.
As far as rank...not all systems issue belt ranks. Most MMA and Muay Thai schools do not. Southeast Asian systems (Filipino, Indonesian) typically do not either, other than the person in the front being called the teacher
Cyriacus
Senior Master
MMA and MT are Competition Geared - Which kind of Serves my Point wellIts Jeff Speakman's Kenpo 5.0. Mr. Speakman's interpretation of Ed Parker's Kenpo, transformed to also include grappling material from (I think) Trevor Sherman and Todd Nathanson.
As far as rank...not all systems issue belt ranks. Most MMA and Muay Thai schools do not. Southeast Asian systems (Filipino, Indonesian) typically do not either, other than the person in the front being called the teacher
Monroe
Purple Belt
Cyriacus - I realize it's lack of experience or I wouldn't be asking questions.
It still looks like a tradition, the purpose being a sign of respect for status and co-ordinating a class. The armed force have a tradition of rank insignia, the purpose being a sign of respect for status and determine a chain of command. It looks less like a matter of art or sport but a combat tradition. Fair enough.
I'm not worried that I'd be perpetually a white belt.
I just have a personal aversion to status. It's not a problem with recognizing other people. It's just my own qualm.
It still looks like a tradition, the purpose being a sign of respect for status and co-ordinating a class. The armed force have a tradition of rank insignia, the purpose being a sign of respect for status and determine a chain of command. It looks less like a matter of art or sport but a combat tradition. Fair enough.
I'm not worried that I'd be perpetually a white belt.
I just have a personal aversion to status. It's not a problem with recognizing other people. It's just my own qualm.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Cyriacus - I realize it's lack of experience or I wouldn't be asking questions.
It still looks like a tradition, the purpose being a sign of respect for status and co-ordinating a class. The armed force have a tradition of rank insignia, the purpose being a sign of respect for status and determine a chain of command. It looks less like a matter of art or sport but a combat tradition. Fair enough.
I'm not worried that I'd be perpetually a white belt.
Combat Tradition may be an Accurate way of Viewing it. But your Idealogy towards the Idea is a bit Skewed with Contradiction - Which will probably fix itself with Time; Thats Not My Problem.
And youre still seeing Ranks as Status.
In any Case, I can only Hope your Knowledge is somewhat Broadened.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
Army Brat is hardly an Excuse, since the Culture slightly Overlooks the Militaristic Functions itself.
The Military Promotes Recognition of Position.
As well as Intensive Physical Fitness, Adept Use of Firearms, Respect, a... And I Pretty Much Qualify by those Standard.
That aside, Yes, Asking Questions is Good. If anything, be more Open to the Answers; Unless youre Damn Sure of any Possible Contradiction. At this Point.
Monroe
Purple Belt
By the time my Dad left the British Military, he couldn't stand them. He's ex-special forces and it's best not to get him on the topic because he'll go off on a rant.
Cyriacus
Senior Master
mook jong man
Senior Master
If I'm wandering around a class of forty or fifty people correcting them , it helps me to be able to have a quick glance at their belt , coloured shirt or badge to tell me how advanced they are in the system. This way I can correct or demo techniques from the curriculum that are appropriate for their skill level rather than waste time listening to their whole life story about where they are exactly in their training.
