Oh Do Kwan by any other name

[Curly]

I have recently moved to a new city and I am looking for a martial arts school to continue my training. I am looking for a school that has a similar style to the old one, so I can more-or-less pick up where I left off. My old school called its style "American karate", and said it had roots in Taekwondo and Shotokan. So I looked into Taekwondo and Shotokan a little on the internet, but nothing looked familiar at first. The Taekwondo Palgwe forms were not familiar. I watched some videos of the first few Palgwe forms, and its not just the names that are different; the forms were not identifiable to me.

But eventually I found information on the Chang Hon (aka Chong-Ji) forms, from Oh Do Kwan, an offshoot of Chung Do Kwan. These are the forms I learned; Dan Gun, Do San, Won Hyo, etc. I learned that an organization called the ITF (International Taekwondo Federation) teaches these forms.

So I tried putting all these terms into the search engine, with no luck. Schools just don't put that much information on their websites. A lot of them don't give any indication of style at all; certainly my last school didn't... what with their "American karate". Sooner or later I'm going to have to pick up the phone and start calling any schools out of the yellow pages, but it would be nice to have a place to start.

Does anyone know schools in Syracuse, NY? Any tips for finding a school in this style?

 

[chrispillertkd]

I don't know of any ITF schools in the Syracuse area, but you might want to contact Mr. Nick Malefyt. He's the NJ State director for the US-ITF and might know of some people in your area. He can be contacted through his website: www.allstartkd.com

Pax,

Chris

 

[ATC]

Also just because a schools is not ITF in affiliation does not mean that they do not teach the original forms, as our GM use to teach us both ITF and WTF forms before he left to open another school in Oregon, but we are WTF by name because of Kukkiwan.

Our current Master learned the ITF Chang Hon when coming up from his farther (a GM) ITF also but again he is now WTF. Also our other 4th Dan instructor is also ITF taught and knows the Chang Hon forms but again is now WTF.

So even though we compete WTF, a lot of what we are taught is also ITF based. You have to look around and ask what they teach.

 

[Marginal]

Google worked well enough for me.

(Neat trick is to search for "Taekwon Do" since the ITF typically uses that romanization)

http://www.originaltaekwon-do.com/instructors.htm

 

[RobBnTX]

Just a quick note, if you do find an ITF affiliated school in your area they will most likely do the Chang-Hon patterns/forms (Tuls in ITF terminology) with the Sine Wave. Your old school calling itself "American Karate" most likely did not incorporate the Sine Wave into their forms.

The Sine Wave is an up and down movement along with a sharp exhale (sounds like someone blowing out a match) that is used with every technique. You can do a search on You Tube by typing in "ITF Tul" to get a good idea of what I mean.

The ITF under the leadership of General Choi Hong Hi (now deceased) came out of the Oh Do Kwan which has Shotokan Karate in its roots. Back in the early '90s I trained in an ITF dojang for a couple of years out in West Texas (Midland TX - now live in the Dallas area).

American Karate (or sometimes American Tae Kwon Do) is, at least in my experience and understanding anyway, a name generally used by many independent dojangs or organizations that are not affiliated with either the WTF or the ITF and probably do not use a lot of Korean terms and or customs in their classes. They are usually tournament oriented but not necessarily. I have noticed that the old style Chang Hon patterns/forms are very common among these type of schools. Many of them have very good instructors and have produced some outstanding competitors in the open tournament venues in both forms and sparring. In fact I sort of like the idea of "American Tae Kwon Do" even though I consider myself a traditionalist when it comes to Martial Arts.

Good luck finding a good school. You might think about starting in something different, I think finding a good instructor is more important than finding a particular style.

Robert

 

[Earl Weiss]

I have recently moved to a new city and I am looking for a martial arts school to continue my training. I am looking for a school that has a similar style to the old one, so I can more-or-less pick up where I left off. My old school called its style "American karate", and said it had roots in Taekwondo and Shotokan. So I looked into Taekwondo and Shotokan a little on the internet, but nothing looked familiar at first. The Taekwondo Palgwe forms were not familiar. I watched some videos of the first few Palgwe forms, and its not just the names that are different; the forms were not identifiable to me.

But eventually I found information on the Chang Hon (aka Chong-Ji) forms, from Oh Do Kwan, an offshoot of Chung Do Kwan. These are the forms I learned; Dan Gun, Do San, Won Hyo, etc. I learned that an organization called the ITF (International Taekwondo Federation) teaches these forms.

So I tried putting all these terms into the search engine, with no luck. Schools just don't put that much information on their websites. A lot of them don't give any indication of style at all; certainly my last school didn't... what with their "American karate". Sooner or later I'm going to have to pick up the phone and start calling any schools out of the yellow pages, but it would be nice to have a place to start.

Does anyone know schools in Syracuse, NY? Any tips for finding a school in this style?

Try Master Affatigato http://www.harborfitness.com/section/kids/
Master Suarez http://www.qtc-itf.com/mastersuarez/

They may not be in your area but may be able to provide refferrals.

 

[Curly]

[...] Your old school calling itself "American Karate" most likely did not incorporate the Sine Wave into their forms.

Good luck finding a good school. You might think about starting in something different, I think finding a good instructor is more important than finding a particular style.

Robert

I'm not looking for ITF per se; just something along those lines, stylistically. Your description of "American karate" schools was a spot on description of my old school. You're right that I've never heard of the Sine Wave... outside of oscilliscopes and trigonometry. I'd be happy to find another "American karate" school or "American Taekwon do", but I'm not having any luck with those either.

I know you said Oh Do Kwan has its roots in Shotokan; How similar is Shotokan to American karate? Are the katas/ tuls more-or-less the same? I'm not worried about little differences here and there (I assume that's unavoidable), but if I saw someone doing a Shotokan kata, would I be able to say, "Oh, that's basically Dan Gun* " ? (In a quick internet search, I was not able to do that, but I only looked at a few of the katas.)

The main reason I don't want to start over if I can help it is that I wouldn't be surprised if I move again in a couple of years... and have to start again again. I foresee a growing pile of yellow belts, with nary a black belt on the horizon...

I may not have much choice, though. So far, I've only found one Taekwondo school (WTF), no American karate, one Shotokan instructor just starting to set up shop. If I have to switch, I want to the most common style I can find, so I don't have this problem again, if I can help it. My (incomplete) spreadsheet shows Goju Ryu as the most common style in the Syracuse area, followed by kempo. I don't know if the popularity of Goju Ryu is peculiar to this area... they could all be offshoots of one progenitor Goju Ryu school in Syracuse for all I know... or if that's typical.

It seems weird to me that I'm having this much trouble. I bought karate lessons for my neice - who lives almost 2000 miles away - at her local school. She lives in a small town; there was only one or two schools. Yet half the katas they taught her were basically the same as what I learned. And Syracuse isn't a small town; there's dozens of schools here. It seems like there has to be an "American karate" school, or something like it.

*We called it "Tay Gun" at my school. "Dan Gun" is Wikipedia's spelling.

 

[Curly]

Try Master Affatigato http://www.harborfitness.com/section/kids/
Master Suarez http://www.qtc-itf.com/mastersuarez/

They may not be in your area but may be able to provide refferrals.

I'm 250 miles (by road) from New York City. When you go to the City and talk to people, you're lucky if they've ever heard of Syracuse... or anything north of Yonkers* :viking2: But who knows; it can't hurt to ask

* They must know about Albany. I don't know how these things are both true, but they are. It's Schrodinger's cat. Until you pass Bear Mountain heading northward, there simultaneously is and is not anything north of it.

 

[dancingalone]

Curly,

Shotokan is not taekwondo despite the obvious connections between the two arts. Shotokan karate uses different kata from the Chang Hon forms you learned although many of the Chang Hon patterns bear a strong resemblence to the movements found in the Shotokan forms Heian 1-5 and Kusanku. Shotokan karate also holds a much lower stance and it has a big focus on hip twist, both forward and reverse.

Have you tried searching for "tae kwon do" rather than "taekwondo" or "Taekwon-Do"? Most American instructors fall into the group you are looking for use the first spelling.

As for Goju-ryu, I don't recommend it to you unless you just want to switch arts entirely. In traditional nonsport form, it's very different from sport American karate/tae kwon do.

 

[Marginal]

I'm not looking for ITF per se; just something along those lines, stylistically. Your description of "American karate" schools was a spot on description of my old school. You're right that I've never heard of the Sine Wave...

It's not really an issue either way. Just an extra thing to learn at worst.

I know you said Oh Do Kwan has its roots in Shotokan; How similar is Shotokan to American karate? Are the katas/ tuls more-or-less the same?

They're similar, but the moves are arranged differently. They're not always as symmetrical as the TKD revisions.