ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Thats exactly right. Kids benefit in so many ways from martial arts, both my kids do tkd and it has been great for them. As you say, most debate regarding kids usually centres around the "kiddie black belt" issue.
Obesity Wave
- Thread starter Archtkd
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- Thread Starter
- #22
We routinely have serious cardio in our dojang. Today we started our adult class with 6-minutes straight of rope work, followed by 10 minutes of foot drills that included zig-zag obstacle runs, obstacle hops, ladder runs. That was followed by tonnes of back and forth formation punch kick combos and partner sparring drills. The "down time" was about 15 minutes of poomsae done at full-speed and strength. I think the problem is not lack of cardio, here the question is how many adults and even youth can consistently handle hard work. In our dojang classes will vary, those who seek the best stuff come to the twice-weekly 6:15 a.m class. They are not many.
- Thread Starter
- #23
I don't care if kids are wearing pink belts and earn 30th dan if that keeps them away from the couch, sugar, video games and all the other stuff that will guarantee they won't live past 40. We have an emergency in this country and if allowing kids to earn "adult" ranks and black belts is what gets them to the dojangs and dojos to do serious taekwondo, karate, judo or any other martial art, that's what we should do.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
As long as the kid understands what their rank means then I couldnt care less if they are 9th dan. Ive just seen too many kids get themselves into trouble because they are a black belt and think they are invincible and find out the hard way that their black belt may have a different meaning to what they thought it meant. It happened to a good mate of mine in high school, he got messed up badly because he thought he could defend himself because he was a "black belt". It was also quite embarassing for him to be beaten up badly in front of half the school by someone who'd never been in a fight in their life, Im sure he is emotionally scarred to this day from that experience.
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Our classes also have a good cardio element, but still compared to hard cardio work they pale in comparison. We do get probably 15-20 minutes down time per class. When black belts (particularly higher dans) do their form we have the coloured belts sit and watch as they can learn a lot from watching black belts do form. Also, we have about 1 class in 4 which is all SD based and the whole class is defending against punches, grabs, wrist locks etc, these classes are quite lame as far as cardio goes as there's not a lot of stuff to really get the heart rate up. Im sure if you got the average week to week student and took them on a 10klm run (at a decent speed) most would stop before the 5klm mark, and those that made the distance would probably be in a pretty bad way at the end of it. Its all relative though, we get couch potatoes come and join our club and they are completely out of breath and covered in sweat at the end of class. We also have one pro rugby league player who trains with us and he barely raises a sweat.
- Thread Starter
- #26
Have you seen the documentary which prompted me to start this thread? Do you see the header of the thread? Seriously how narrow minded and intellectually shallow can we get? Do we have to turn every thread into a discussion about imaginary mayhem in the deadly streets and the endless preparations for the same? What has that got to do with obesity, especially that of children, in America?
ralphmcpherson
Senior Master
Interestingly it was you who made a post about kids in martial arts prior to me (post number 23). I also stated I had no problem with it. You will also notice that I responded and immediately made a post to drag things back "on topic". Before using terms such as "intellectualy shallow" and "narrow minded" you may want to get your facts straight, and remember we have all been warned about petty name calling and acting like children. Please adhere to the forum rules, or at least go and read them and become aquainted with them. I really thought the name calling would cease after the recent goings on here.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
Good point. It is a touchy subject though, because if you start criticizing the kid's diet the parents may take it personally as a shot at their parenting. When a parent has approached me about wanting their kid to lose weight though exercise, I bring this topic up but without directly asking what the kid eats.
I have never been aware of brown belt being an adult rank. In any case, most of the TKD schools in my area don't have a brown belt, but use a red belt instead.
I don't personally care about the belt color issue, though I do think that if the school is KKW, students 14 or younger should be wearing pum belts. But again, I don't really care.
Most parents put their kids into taekwondo for discipline, fitness, and as an after school activity; lifestyle and fitness. Most all of the schools that I have visited that have a kids program all emphasize staying out of fights and good behavior and the belts are used primarily as a teaching tool and for competition bracketing.
Honestly, it has nothing to do with the kid knowing what their rank means. Adults could just as easily end up in the same situation. All that a black belt means is that you have attained a level of proficiency in a specific set of techniques; not that you're invincible.
I'm curious though;if the person in question had never been in a fight in their life, how is it that your BB friend ended up having to defend himself against them? Whenever I hear stories like this, I always am curious as to what led up to it.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
While I agree with Daniel on this. Can we break it off to another thread? I see this slowly evolving into a kid's rank topic and no longer being a kid's obesity topic that it is meant to be. Thanks.
I think that the rank issue is best addressed by divorcing the color of the belt from the perception of mastery. I'm not concerned about a ten year old with a black belt (three years ago, I would never have said that), but I would be concerned about giving a ten year old the title of sabeom (Korean rendering of shihan). I think that karate, judo, and taekwondo are enough a part of the culture that people know the difference between a child BB and an adult BB.
Most of the concern that people have is either that the child will think he's invincible, which as I said above, can happen with adults just as easily, or that the child's rank somehow debases one's own rank, which it doesn't.
In this entire discussion, the thing that has stuck out most is the importance of leading by example. Even without the obesity issue in the US, people are almost universally put off by an instructor who is in poor condition.
If instructors want people to see weight loss as a benefit of the martial arts, then they definitely need to look the part, regardless of whether or not they think it's fair.
Good point. And I think we have enough such threads already.
miguksaram
Master of Arts
While I do agree that instructors should be examples of decent health and weight this isn't to say that they should all have chiseled out chests, 6 packs and bulging biceps either. We all know that age will play a role in one's shape as well. As long as the instructor can perform the exercises and techniques that they are asking the kids to do without sounding like they just ran a marathon, then to me that is acceptable.
I agree; I was thinking along the lines of being in generally good condition, not sculpted and ripped.
- Thread Starter
- #36
This is very true. The other challenge is finding balance and ways of motivating adults and kids to do serious work. Many of us have seen what unfortunately happens when we crank up workouts: the dedicated fit practitioners -- who are not many -- remain, while the folks who need the most help disappear.
I havent been able to chime in til now, so if I missed the "moment" i apologize, but Often I noticed the students body type mirrors the parents or is on track to. I very rarely see a parent who is in good physical shape with a child who is chubby to say the least. Not saying it doesnt happen, just my observation. Usually the parent themself is obese and thier eating habits and lack of motion is a guideline for the child.
this is where it becomes difficult. Because now you have to attempt to change the parent as well. it is great that the parent has focused on the child obesity issue, but if they still contiue to feed them trash food and do not set a good example of a healthy lifestyle, there is only so much we as instructors can do.
but at least for an hour or two we can try.
and by no means am I a health freak. I eat garbage as well and often have to catch myself and try to eat better. This is something My wife and myself are conscientious about but have not mastered. Since I stopped competing, I have gained about 20 pounds and I do not like it. But my mindset and training habits have also changed so I am guilty of neglecting myself as well. But I am still FAR from Obese.
this is where it becomes difficult. Because now you have to attempt to change the parent as well. it is great that the parent has focused on the child obesity issue, but if they still contiue to feed them trash food and do not set a good example of a healthy lifestyle, there is only so much we as instructors can do.
but at least for an hour or two we can try.
and by no means am I a health freak. I eat garbage as well and often have to catch myself and try to eat better. This is something My wife and myself are conscientious about but have not mastered. Since I stopped competing, I have gained about 20 pounds and I do not like it. But my mindset and training habits have also changed so I am guilty of neglecting myself as well. But I am still FAR from Obese.
so very true.
Well I will say one more thing here about obesity, sometimes it is a medical condition and not laziness. I work hard everyday to be the best I can be and I am obese to say the least, I own my school and train my students along side my family and blackbelts. Beside exorcise they need to understand how to eat and what to eat, sadly to say our country make sure the poor eat fatty foods simply because that is the cheapest thing to eat. Eating healthy is very costly to each person. Mac n cheese is cheap, potatos are cheap fatty foods are cheap. frsh veggies and how end meats are costly, so eighty percent of the population cannot afford to eat right. Sometime the only healthy food they get is from school lunches so it is not a easy task to take on by just anyone.
Absolutely. And I hope that you didn't take offense at my previous post. I was thinking of customer perception.
I try to avoid making assumptions about why people are obese. I have a very good friend who is not lazy, but his profession and his choice of hobbies do not involve a lot of physical activity and do involve a lot of sitting. Over the years, he has put on weight and is now struggling to reverse the process. And it is hard, but in no way is he lazy.
I know that for some, there are medical reasons, but by and large the cause is lifestyle related.
Even within the constraints that lower income people have to work with, one can eat smart. I also find that many lower income people manage to afford things like smart phones, blue ray players, and the like.
The biggest issue that many lower income people often have is that of life skills, which includes knowing how to eat right and manage the money that they do have well. Which is why just throwing money at the problem through the various subsidies and entitlement programs for such people is not enough. The subsidies and entitlements are needed to help people get up and on their feet, but without life skills, often people have a hard time capitalizing on the benefits of such programs.
One of the areas where I think that a martial arts school can be of help is to model for students and to, in some way, instill some skills into kids who really need it.
