Obama and infanticide

[mrhnau]

Read an interesting article the other day. Can't find the article online, but this one gives the general idea.

Apparently Obama voted against a protection act that would protect babies from failed abortions. Apparently, one method of abortion is to induce the mother prematurely. The infant is normally born dead. However, occasionally the baby is born alive. The act in question would have made it illegal for doctors to just let the baby die. Kind of leave it alone on the table and wait for it to die. Obama opposed this act.

I'm sorry, but I can't think of any other word for this then infanticide. This is killing a child that would otherwise live. Might need some help, but so do 6 month old babies that get sick, or anyone on this board that gets very sick (heart attack, pneumonia, etc). This is no longer abortion. This is murder. And Obama supports it.

:barf:

 

[Makalakumu]

Abortion is infanticide no matter how you look at it. A human life is terminated. The real question is how much does it really matter.

And!

What purpose does it serve?

I think that abortion is a fabian eugenics program and that it will never go away because the elite want that.

 

[mrhnau]

Abortion is infanticide no matter how you look at it. A human life is terminated. The real question is how much does it really matter.

I'm not arguing that. Just making the point that no way you look at it, this can no longer be considered abortion. It's murder. I tend to think any form of abortion is murder, but this thread is just to point out Obama's support of murder. And this should correctly define murder in anyones book.

 

[Makalakumu]

They all support murder in some way shape or form. Whom to kill is always a political choice.

 

[CuongNhuka]

You guys do know that it is not uncommon for rape victims to get pregnant, right? Or that incest victims also get pregnant sometimes. Or that more then a few prositutes get pregant. It is also possible for a woman to be (essentially) allergic to pregancy, or that pregnacy/birth can kill certain women. I know a girl from high school who will die if she gives birth, but wants to be married. What if she gets pregnat?

What would you do for these cases? I'm not saying a support abortion completely, but these are instances that one should keep in mind. However, there are safer and more humane ways to accomplish this. I have a feeling that Obama simply, didn't read the entire bit of legislation, and thought it was outlawing abortion whole-sale. Senators/Congressman do do that sometimes. Why do you think the Patriot Act was passed?

 

[mrhnau]

You guys do know that it is not uncommon for rape victims to get pregnant, right? Or that incest victims also get pregnant sometimes. Or that more then a few prositutes get pregant. It is also possible for a woman to be (essentially) allergic to pregancy, or that pregnacy/birth can kill certain women. I know a girl from high school who will die if she gives birth, but wants to be married. What if she gets pregnat?

while I'm not a fan of abortion, you don't need to wait 6 months to get one! If you know you will die, then don't wait 6 months.

What would you do for these cases? I'm not saying a support abortion completely, but these are instances that one should keep in mind. However, there are safer and more humane ways to accomplish this. I have a feeling that Obama simply, didn't read the entire bit of legislation, and thought it was outlawing abortion whole-sale. Senators/Congressman do do that sometimes. Why do you think the Patriot Act was passed?

I don't think Obama did not know about the details. He sat in hearing and talked with one of the ladies testifying about the need for such an act. Ignorance is not an excuse here.

As I said, this is not abortion. These are failed abortions that produced a living child! Adopt the child out! The risk for the mother is no longer a viable excuse. Neither is the "mother does not want it" excuse. Geez, help the LIVING child and adopt them out! Plenty of people would love a sweet child and can't have any.

 

[Big Don]

You guys do know that it is not uncommon for rape victims to get pregnant, right? Or that incest victims also get pregnant sometimes. Or that more then a few prositutes get pregant. It is also possible for a woman to be (essentially) allergic to pregancy, or that pregnacy/birth can kill certain women. I know a girl from high school who will die if she gives birth, but wants to be married. What if she gets pregnat?

What would you do for these cases? I'm not saying a support abortion completely, but these are instances that one should keep in mind. However, there are safer and more humane ways to accomplish this. I have a feeling that Obama simply, didn't read the entire bit of legislation, and thought it was outlawing abortion whole-sale. Senators/Congressman do do that sometimes. Why do you think the Patriot Act was passed?

Suppose your parents hadn't planned on having you when they did, lots of people began as surprises. Would you rather your mother had chosen to abort you?


I didn't think so.

 

[Ray]

I'm not an Obama supporter but really we should read the entire bill that was being voted on. It's too easy for people to pick out one thing and stretch it like "Silly Putty."

In any case "don't vote for Obama."

 

[girlbug2]

The middle of the road conservative stance on abortion is commonly understood to be against, except "in cases of rape, incest, or where the mother's life is at risk." So no, just because somebody is against abortion generally does not make them ignoramuses or neanderthals.

 

[Lisa]

The article read like something out of David Letterman's "Top 10 reason to....." Not being familiar with the issue and Obama's stance on it and not reading anymore at this point I would take it with a grain of salt. As Ray so eloquently put it articles tend to "Stretch things out like silly putty"

Lets keep this to what facts there are, and not make it a personal "would you want your mother to do that to you" That really has no bearing on Obama's stance on this. The thread isn't about whether anyone would have wanted their mother to abort them. Kind of a silly question if you ask me.

 

[mrhnau]

Not being familiar with the issue and Obama's stance on it and not reading anymore at this point I would take it with a grain of salt.

OK. This is the article I came across. Finally found it online.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647

At the end of the hearing, according to the official records of the Illinois State senate, Obama thanked Stanek for being “very clear and forthright,” but said his concern was that Stanek had suggested “doctors really don’t care about children who are being born with a reasonable prospect of life because they are so locked into their pro-abortion views that they would watch an infant that is viable die.” He told her, “That may be your assessment, and I don’t see any evidence of that. What we are doing here is to create one more burden on a woman and I can’t support that.”

 

[Twin Fist]

I dont need any more reasons not to vote for the guy.

But I favor keeping abortion legal.

First trimester abortion that is

partial birth, or stuff like this needs to go, but the liberals will never vote to get rid of it, the pro-abortion crowd would demand thier heads on pikes if they ever did.

 

[CuongNhuka]

Suppose your parents hadn't planned on having you when they did, lots of people began as surprises. Would you rather your mother had chosen to abort you?


I didn't think so.

Thank you for completly ignoring my post. Your pseudo-illiteraticy has been noted.

 

[Tez3]

OK. This is the article I came across. Finally found it online.

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=18647

Does this article come from an unbiased and non political source?
If not one has to treat it with caution. At election times as everyone knows each party and candidate is not only trying to get elected they are trying to stop their political opponents from being elected so emotive and not always exactly truthful articles appear everywhere. This is true of all sides not one side or the other. Abortion seems a far more emotive matter in America than probably anywhere else in the world so it's always going to be something that is used as the ball in the game of political tennis.

 

[Kacey]

Suppose your parents hadn't planned on having you when they did, lots of people began as surprises. Would you rather your mother had chosen to abort you?


I didn't think so.

Would you rather your mother had chosen to abort you? This is a meaningless question, to me, as it didn't - and therefore couldn't - happen.

I think that this a broader issue than "don't vote for Obama". If you check the thread Pregnancy Pact ~ What utter stupidity!, you will note that one of the concerns in this country is the lack of proper education for teens (the group most at risk for abortion) about contraception - often because their parents don't want them taught (for whatever reason) and abortion is the only option they have left, or feel they have left.

There are people and organizations that go out of their way to prevent abortions - which is fine, if, and only if, they are going to raise the resultant child from birth through college; otherwise, they have no business interfering in the life of the mother or the child. There are also a wide range of reason why a pregnant woman might not be able - or willing - to have an abortion during the first trimester. Don't get me wrong - I find the use of abortion as a replacement for contraception to be morally wrong, as I see a significant difference between preventing conception and ending it once it has occurred - but lots of people don't.

Yes, there are lots of people who would love to adopt those aborted babies - and it would be great if all the pregnant women who didn't want their children took proper care of themselves, carried the baby to term, and then gave the unwanted child up for adoption - but that's not going to happen, at least not the way things are going now.

For most women, having an abortion is not an easy choice, and it may take a while for it to sink in - thus, the need for 2nd trimester abortions. I'm not saying it's right - at least, it wouldn't be for me - but at the same time, it's not my life. Were I, for some reason, to find myself pregnant with an unwanted child, I would complete the the pregnancy and give the child up for adoption - but many women cannot do that, for reasons that are as widely variant as the women themselves.

And honestly - I've seen some of the kids who were preterm births (not from late term abortions) - and while some are okay, many have significant problems - including one who was born at the edge of viability; her skull never formed (so when she moved her head, you could see her brain slosh inside her scalp), she "ate" through a permanent stomach tube, she had a permanent tracheotomy, she couldn't talk, couldn't walk, didn't have the motor control to learn to sign; she lived in her wheelchair at school. After a life of pain and multiple surgeries, she died of pneumonia at the age of 9.

And then I knew another girl - not preterm - who was diagnosed with a genetic illness after her birth. It was a regressive developmental disease (I've forgotten the name); she peaked intellectually at 2 (when she could feed herself with a spoon), then started to lose skills - by the time I knew her, she was 10, and had lost the ability to feed herself, had never been toilet trained, was losing the ability to walk, and was facing a lifetime as an adult-sized infant... her mother became pregnant again, and the same genetic defect was found in the new fetus, but not until nearly the end of the 2nd trimester; mom chose to have an abortion, and I do not fault her for it - although the child could have been viable, and could have lived as its sister "lived" - but for what purpose? To be a vegetable most of its life?

Do I agree, in general, with abortions performed when the fetus is potentially "viable"? Not in general... but neither will I support legislation that limits a woman's right to choose.

 

[BrandiJo]

What is the big drama hear? Males, when you get preg you can decide for yourself if you have an abortion, females... you are in charge of your body so you can decide for yourself. When it is my body, i can and will decide for myself. Abortion is never a fun choice, it is a hard, scary, and down right horrid decision to be forced to make but it is yours to make, and only yours. The law needs to protect the womans right to choose. I wish you all had to sit and talk to a person facing the choice of abortion, because for whatever reason she feels this is her best choice, You will find it is hardly ever a choice of opps my husband and i got preg. Infanticide killing the human once it is outside the womb is a different think.. once the child is born and breathing then it needs to be protected.

 

[Twin Fist]

but neither will I support legislation that limits a woman's right to choose.

Neither will I
Except for partial birth abortions and things like this.

 

[MJS]

Folks,

I'm sure everyone here is familiar with the TOS and rules of the study. Lets keep the personal shots out of the thread please. If you don't want to read someones post, I'm sure everyone is familiar with the ignore feature. Please use it!

Mike

 

[Makalakumu]

I'd like a candidate to take the middle ground someday. Some limitations on abortions, like 2nd and 3rd trimester procedures, should be more regulated with 1st trimester abortions being the most widely available and least regulated. The health of the mother should always be taken into account, but I don't think that our society should be so willing to throw away developing children.

 

[Cryozombie]

I support retroactive abortion, but only if I'm allowed to choose...