NY Town wants Muslim bodies removed from cemetery

[Bill Mattocks]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/09/28/new.york.muslim.cemetery/

(CNN) -- Leaders of a town in upstate New York are trying to shut down a local Muslim community center's burial site, prompting members of the center to wonder: Why now?
Hans Hass, spokesperson for the Sufi Muslim Osmanli Naksibendi Hakkani Dergahi, or community center, in Sidney, New York, told CNN that problems surrounding the cemetery and questions about its legality started around the time the lower Manhattan Mosque and Islamic Center controversy began making national news.
But Sidney town supervisor Bob McCarthy said the legality of the cemetery came up "long before that," referring to the lower Manhattan Islamic center controversy, though he did not say specifically when the issue came up. "What they do in New York City has nothing to do with us," he said. When asked if the lawsuit had anything to do with the burial site originating from a Muslim community center, McCarthy said, "No."
According to board meeting minutes provided to CNN by Hass, McCarthy and the town board voted in August to start "seeking an injunction prohibiting the burying of bodies on private property in violation of New York state town law." In addition to preventing future burials, town officials are seeking to disinter the two members of the Sufi Muslim community currently buried on the land.

John Wayne used to say "The only good Indian is a dead Indian" in his film roles. Now I take it that with regard to Muslims, even dead is no longer acceptable.

Sad.

 

[WC_lun]

I'll reserve judgement on this until I know more. It could just be that the cemetary is in violation of thier local ordinances. However, if the cemetary has been there for a while with no issues till now, that would be mighty suspicious.

 

[CoryKS]

I'll reserve judgement on this until I know more. It could just be that the cemetary is in violation of thier local ordinances. However, if the cemetary has been there for a while with no issues till now, that would be mighty suspicious.

I think the timing is unfortunate, but it's not necessarily suspicious. It might be the natural result of a government that is ineffective yet all-powerful. There are countless examples of local governments finally taking note of something that they've missed for years and decreeing that "this has to change now! Right now! Or you'll be fined and go to jail!"

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Apparently, in 2005, the Muslim group got a letter from the city saying they could use the property as a cemetery:

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/55628534/Sidney-Grave-Site

They also claim that they have filed a permit each time (twice) they have buried a body in that cemetery.

It seems odd that the town would now claim that they do not have a legal cemetery and that there were no permits issued. I would like to see copies of the permits, but from the letter, unless it is an absolute forgery, I suspect shenanigans.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

The towns copies were "lost" because they were "misfiled" when they "weren't applied for.". It makes sense in government-speak.

 

[elder999]

John Wayne used to say "The only good Indian is a dead Indian" in his film roles. Now I take it that with regard to Muslims, even dead is no longer acceptable.

Sad.

I agree with you, but I don't think the Duke ever uttered those words on film. They started here:

. I have never in my life seen a good Indian (and I have seen thousands) except when I have seen a dead Indian- James Michael Cavanaugh , Reperesentative of Montana, May 28, 1868, during debate on an IndianAppropriation Bill

 

[bribrius]

they probably want the muslims out of town.

lot of them over there. It could be a bathroom issue.

Last time i traveled through newyork one was splashing water all over his feet in a public restroom and muttering something. I don't know why. But the end result was he was standing in a puddle of water. Someone has to go clean that mess up when they do that.

could be something with the sugar too. I remember something about sugar when i stayed there and the stores started carrying certain sugar for the muslim population. Maybe they were offended by certain forms of sugar. I just wanted sugar for my coffee.

saw one kneeling on the floor on napkins once too. personally i dont care but they were in a restaurant. I think it freaks out the customers.

hell if i know.

 

[Tez3]

they probably want the muslims out of town.

lot of them over there. It could be a bathroom issue.

Last time i traveled through newyork one was splashing water all over his feet in a public restroom and muttering something. I don't know why. But the end result was he was standing in a puddle of water. Someone has to go clean that mess up when they do that.

could be something with the sugar too. I remember something about sugar when i stayed there and the stores started carrying certain sugar for the muslim population. Maybe they were offended by certain forms of sugar. I just wanted sugar for my coffee.

saw one kneeling on the floor on napkins once too. personally i dont care but they were in a restaurant. I think it freaks out the customers.

hell if i know.

As Charlie Brown says OH GOOD GRIEF!

 

[MJS]

Folks,

Lets try to stay on topic ok? If you're not going to post anything productive, stuff thats not on topic, and trolling in general, please stop. I

 

[Ray]

they probably want the muslims out of town.

lot of them over there. It could be a bathroom issue.

Last time i traveled through newyork one was splashing water all over his feet in a public restroom and muttering something. I don't know why. But the end result was he was standing in a puddle of water. Someone has to go clean that mess up when they do that.

It's not easy/if not impossible in a lot of cases to determine religion by looking at someone...how did you determine he was a Muslim?

 

[Archangel M]

This could just as easily be a zoning dispute, which I see plenty of over all sorts of issues. Some neighbor that wants to raise a stink over a fence, a tree being cut down, or a cemetery being put in. Some gvt employee so stuck on minutiae that they will hold up construction of something due to some obscure code.

I think that there just MAY be a chance that the media is using the fact that this is a Muslim cemetery to create "legs" for the story.

I wonder if there are any zoning disputes over X-tian cemeteries going on SOMEWHERE in the US right now?

 

[Archangel M]

Heres one...not really a zoning ord. But a dispute.

http://www.holyroodcemetery.org/qop2.pdf

Should a Church planning to open a cemetery be required to conduct psychological
testing on the effects of viewing a cemetery or to hire an arborist to survey trees?

According to a complaint filed in federal court, those were the kind of actions that
the Village of Old Westbury has asked of the Diocese of Rockville Centre during its
application to open a new cemetery north of Jericho Turnpike in Old Westbury.
Such “bad faith” practices and subterfuge by village officials, said Tom Renker,
diocesan attorney, constitute an effort to prevent or burden the diocese’s attempt to
open a new cemetery. As a result, the diocese filed suit against the village, village
officials and consultants Nov. 30 in U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of
New York.

“This has been a process of placing obstacles in the path of the diocese’s plan to
make legitimate religious use of property obtained for the benefit of the people of
the diocese,” Renker said. “When the diocese has agreed to jump through one
hoop, the village has held up three more.”

Im willing to bet that there are more. But a story about a Town giving an X-tian Church a difficult time over a cemetary just wouldn't jibe with the narrative CNN is trying to craft.

 

[Tez3]

Quote Should a Church planning to open a cemetery be required to conduct psychological
testing on the effects of viewing a cemetery or to hire an arborist to survey trees? Unquote


Here that would probably happen whether it was a cemetary or housing as we have a good many trees that are under preservation orders due to their age. We also have building site stoped because of archealogical finds or endangered species being found living in the area.

Perhaps though the fact that some media run stories about Muslims potentially under attack means that they aren't targetting Muslims themselves? I wouldn't say they are trying to protect them, the media is too cold blooded and greedy to care about anyone but it is interesting.

 

[Empty Hands]

Im willing to bet that there are more.

I don't know, are there any disputes over already existing cemetaries that will require disinternment of buried remains? I sort of doubt it. The cemetary has been there for some time, with dead folks already in the ground. It's not like they proposed putting in the thing last week.

 

[David43515]

Since they have apparently had no problems in the past I`m guessing something fishy is going on. I think it`s most likely that there has probably been a change on the membership of some board somewhere. There`s probably some new coucilman with an ax to grind either pushing his own agenda or trying to make a name for himself.

The Town`s assertion that the location is a violation of State and Town laws because it`s on private property seem dubious at best. I`m sure the town council reviewed that before granting permission and permits in the past. There are privately owned cemetaries all over the country. If they have to stop future use of the land, they aught to at least grandfather the two previous graves in because they were done in good faith.

Just my .02

 

[Ken Morgan]

Arguably there have existed 100+ billion Homo sapiens in the history of our species.
94 billion of them are dead.
There is 15.6 billion acres of habitable land on the earth.
Anyone want to guess what you live over, walk over and drive over every day??

 

[elder999]

Arguably there have existed 100+ billion Homo sapiens in the history of our species.
94 billion of them are dead.
There is 15.6 billion acres of habitable land on the earth.
Anyone want to guess what you live over, walk over and drive over every day??

See the world whole, and see it clearly then:
A globe of dirt, encrusted with the bones of men
If we walk, we walk on graves

 

[Carol]

I don't think this is because the people are Muslim.

The Muslims in this story buried people on mortgaged land. I don't think that is going to fly in any state, regardless of the religion. I don't think that would fly with the lienholders of the property either, but I don't know enough about how that kind of thing works.

Before going on about how this must be bigotry...keep in mind, it was one of their own that dropped the dime. The person that alerted the town was a Muslim member of said community.

I personally have no issue with ordering the Islamic Center to shut down the cemetery and disinter the bodies. Or, pay off the mortgage in full.

http://www.aolnews.com/nation/artic...sidney-ny-want-muslim-cemetery-to-go/19654119

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I personally have no issue with ordering the Islamic Center to shut down the cemetery and disinter the bodies. Or, pay off the mortgage in full.

My issue would be that the city previously stated that the cemetery was authorized, and the Islamic Center states that they filed permits prior to each of the two burials.

I think the timing is curious, as is the demand for disinterment now. If the city had erroneously issued permits and now wished to say they made a mistake, that's one thing. Mistakes happen. But it appears that the city is in full denial mode; especially since the Islamic Center has produced the letter the city sent them in 2005 and the city denies it but doesn't declare the letter a forgery? Come on, this is fishy.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Before going on about how this must be bigotry...keep in mind, it was one of their own that dropped the dime. The person that alerted the town was a Muslim member of said community.

According to the Town Clerk, Lisa French - who declined to say who it was. She also likes to say "these people" a lot, and has a problem with the "liberal media" sticking its nose into the town's business.