Nunchucks in California for USAT Jr Olympics?

[miguksaram]

However getting to and from the tournament / firing range is another story. You get stopped by a cop and he has PC to search your car and he finds the weapon under the drivers seat (be it the nunchaku or a gun) and you are busted likely no matter how many times you plead I was on my way to a tournament / firing range and I am from out of state and didn't know.

I agree with you here...which is why in I said it should be stored away in luggage and not right out in the open. If you are driving with it under your seat it, then that falls under that "You're an idiot" section that I was talking about earlier.

 

[miguksaram]

Just call the tournament director or better yet call SJPD and just ask. That is MY ADVICE. MY EXPERIENCE has been that people going to martial art tournaments and compete in weapon divisions have had no problems with the police as long as they kept their weapon stored away in their luggage or bag while traveling to and from the venue.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I agree with you here...which is why in I said it should be stored away in luggage and not right out in the open. If you are driving with it under your seat it, then that falls under that "You're an idiot" section that I was talking about earlier.

If you're within 100 miles of an international border, the ICE (formerly Border Patrol) or US Customs can stop and search your vehicle, inside and out, without a warrant. 2/3 of the US population lives within 100 miles of an international border.

As well, very often the penalties are stiffer for concealed prohibited weapons if they are discovered than if they had been in the open.

From what I can tell, you're dispensing advice on how to get away with breaking the law, knowing full well what the law is. In my humble opinion, that's not a very good idea at all.

Not only is it generally a bad idea to give legal advice on the internet, it's even worse to give bad legal advice. Again, IMHO.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

...better yet call SJPD and just ask.

There you go! How hard was that? I prefer getting such opinions in writing, which is why I suggested writing a letter to the city attorney and ask for an opinion in writing. Oral statements aren't worth the paper they're not printed on.

 

[miguksaram]

If you're within 100 miles of an international border, the ICE (formerly Border Patrol) or US Customs can stop and search your vehicle, inside and out, without a warrant. 2/3 of the US population lives within 100 miles of an international border.

As well, very often the penalties are stiffer for concealed prohibited weapons if they are discovered than if they had been in the open.

From what I can tell, you're dispensing advice on how to get away with breaking the law, knowing full well what the law is. In my humble opinion, that's not a very good idea at all.

Not only is it generally a bad idea to give legal advice on the internet, it's even worse to give bad legal advice. Again, IMHO.

So the big question is this, how are all these big name national competitions such as Compete, Long Beach International, Bushido Open and SuperGrands all of which attract numerous of competitors from all over the US able to go one with weapon divisions for all these years?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

So the big question is this, how are all these big name national competitions such as Compete, Long Beach International, Bushido Open and SuperGrands all of which attract numerous of competitors from all over the US able to go one with weapon divisions for all these years?

That's not the 'big question'. I think you're a little unclear on the concept. I never said that the law was actively or vigorously enforced. In fact, I said I'm sure it isn't. So I have no doubt that such competitions get away with apparently breaking the law.

What I said was that it is a bad idea to offer or accept legal advice on the internet from someone who a) isn't an attorney and b) isn't going to step up and pay your legal bills if you take his *bad* advice and end up in trouble.

You seem not to be able to differentiate between a law not being enforced and a law not existing. Just because the law on nunchaku possession appears not be aggressively enforced, that does not mean it is therefore legal. A person can still be arrested for it.

As I said before - you're not going to step up and pay someone's legal bills if they take your advice and end up in trouble, are you? If not, then perhaps dispensing such advice is not the wisest thing you could do. Opinions are one thing; advice is something different.

 

[puunui]

She competed here in Ohio in the weapons competition with her speed-chucks and would like to do the same in San Jose. However, I have looked online and it appears nunchucks are illegal in California with an exception for schools that teach martial arts. Our plan is to fly into San Jose for the USAT event and then drive down to Los Angeles for the ATU National Championship a few days later.

Since when has there been weapon divisions at USAT events? That's ridiculous.

 

[miguksaram]

That's not the 'big question'. I think you're a little unclear on the concept. I never said that the law was actively or vigorously enforced. In fact, I said I'm sure it isn't. So I have no doubt that such competitions get away with apparently breaking the law.

What I said was that it is a bad idea to offer or accept legal advice on the internet from someone who a) isn't an attorney and b) isn't going to step up and pay your legal bills if you take his *bad* advice and end up in trouble.

And at no time did I give him legal advice. I did give him an opinion based on my experience of going to and participating in tournaments in California.

You seem not to be able to differentiate between a law not being enforced and a law not existing. Just because the law on nunchaku possession appears not be aggressively enforced, that does not mean it is therefore legal. A person can still be arrested for it.

Never said they could not be arrested for it or never said it was legal to do so. Never said that this law doesn't pertain to him because he is in a tournament. What I did say is he should be fine as long as he keeps them in his luggage or bag while going to or from the venue. Apparently it is aggressively enforced as MM said that he has busted people on the street who had them. So at no time was I giving legal advice.

As I said before - you're not going to step up and pay someone's legal bills if they take your advice and end up in trouble, are you? If not, then perhaps dispensing such advice is not the wisest thing you could do. Opinions are one thing; advice is something different.

If you go to a restaurant and you had no problems with it and then someone asked you hey is it any good and you tell them I had not problems with it so go try it. They then have the worse food and service ever...are you going to pay their food bill? Even better they have an allergic reaction to some ingredient that landed in their food and end up in the hospital...Are you paying their medical bill? After all they tried it based on your advice.

Or do do you just say...I am not going to give you my opinion based on my experience because I am not a licensed chef or food critic and as such do not want to be responsible for any possible bad results that may occur once you step into the restaurant.

 

[Flying Crane]

Interesting that the statute lists nunchaku and shuriken specifically. I can take you on a walking tour of San Francisco Chinatown and show you numerous shops that openly sell nunchaku and shuriken. Some of the chucks are foam padded, others are solid wood. The shuriken are steel and sharp. These are openly displayed in the glass cases for all to see.

I've always wondered how they got around that one, or if the cops just look the other way because they've got bigger fish to fry.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Interesting that the statute lists nunchaku and shuriken specifically. I can take you on a walking tour of San Francisco Chinatown and show you numerous shops that openly sell nunchaku and shuriken. Some of the chucks are foam padded, others are solid wood. The shuriken are steel and sharp. These are openly displayed in the glass cases for all to see.

I've always wondered how they got around that one, or if the cops just look the other way because they've got bigger fish to fry.

I'm just taking a guess here...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php

(b) Subdivision (a) does not apply to any of the following:
(4) The manufacture of a nunchaku for sale to, or the sale of a nunchaku to, a school which holds a regulatory or business license and teaches the arts of self-defense.

Officer: Excuse me, it appears you are selling nunchaku in prohibition of the 2008 Dangerous Weapons Control Law.

Shopowner: Oh, no officer. These are for sale only to a school which holds a regulatory or business license and teaches the arts of self-defense. I would not sell them to anyone else.

Officer: Er, OK then. See that you don't.

Honestly, I also suspect that such things are simply used for selective enforcement. As you say, the cop's got bigger fish to fry, and he frankly doesn't care. I mean, come on, in San Francisco, you can see public acts of sex on the streets in the summer time, and hookers are so common that they only get upset about the 12-year-old hookers and then only sometimes. You can buy bongs anywhere, but occasionally businesses get raided for selling them and somebody goes to jail. However, if the cop needs or wants to bust the guy, and he's got nunchaku or stars or bongs or whatever, then that's his PC for whatever he needs to do, including a charge to pin on him if he can't find anything else.

I'm just glad I'm in Michigan. I don't use stars or nunchaku in my training - we use bo staffs and sai. But sensei recommends getting comfortable with sai by going running with them, practicing opening and closing them as you run. Liable to attract some attention; good thing they are legal to run around with in your hands.

 

[mango.man]

Interesting that the statute lists nunchaku and shuriken specifically. I can take you on a walking tour of San Francisco Chinatown and show you numerous shops that openly sell nunchaku and shuriken. Some of the chucks are foam padded, others are solid wood. The shuriken are steel and sharp. These are openly displayed in the glass cases for all to see.

I've always wondered how they got around that one, or if the cops just look the other way because they've got bigger fish to fry.

SF is a sanctuary city in California which pertains to their enforcement of statutes against illegal aliens mostly but it also lends itself to the point that they are quite loose about enforcing many many laws. That may also have something to do with it.

 

[jks9199]

Or somebody works to set up a waiver for those traveling to and from the tournament, and for the tournaments. For that matter -- I could see a tournament falling under the description of a licensed self-defense class.

There is undoubtedly some process; after all several of those illegal weapons show up in movies quite routinely.

 

[miguksaram]

I'm just glad I'm in Michigan. I don't use stars or nunchaku in my training - we use bo staffs and sai. But sensei recommends getting comfortable with sai by going running with them, practicing opening and closing them as you run. Liable to attract some attention; good thing they are legal to run around with in your hands.

Since your Sensei gave you training advice, I'll assume his is neither a licensed physical therapist or personal trainer, and you run with those sai, opening and closing them as you run, and you slip and fall and stab yourself or drop them on your feet, which for those who have trained with sai know they are heavy and do some good damage...will you be asking him to pay your medical bills?

 

[britt_boo]

umm.. i competed in the usat/mac ohiostate championships in ohio last week and the only qualifying divsions were wtf poomse and sparring, everything else was open events,i can ask my master about it he might know, im 15 so i dont really know the law and that an interesting question
http://oh.usat-mac.us/event-registration/2011-usat-oh-and-goodwill-open-championship/

 

[TaekwondoDad]

You are right, I mispoke on qualifying in weapons and breaking. She participated and did well and the divisions are being offered in San Jose, but there is no need to qualify. Thank you for correcting this.

 

[britt_boo]

oh ok , i was alittle confused. did you you talk to anyone from usat about it?

 

[TaekwondoDad]

No, I have not. I have tried calling the USAT national office repeatedly about a different issue and 1) only get voicemail and 2) never get a call back. I have had limited success with emailing them. (1 response and all other emails ignored). This is a post for a different thread.

I have spoken with the law department and the police departmnet in San Jose. Individuals at both places were very courteous, understanding and helpful. However, their comments contained the words "shouldn't" and "probably" a bit too many times to be of comfort and as Bill Mattocks has noted several times in this thread, nothing is in writing.

 

[terryl965]

No, I have not. I have tried calling the USAT national office repeatedly about a different issue and 1) only get voicemail and 2) never get a call back. I have had limited success with emailing them. (1 response and all other emails ignored). This is a post for a different thread.

I have spoken with the law department and the police departmnet in San Jose. Individuals at both places were very courteous, understanding and helpful. However, their comments contained the words "shouldn't" and "probably" a bit too many times to be of comfort and as Bill Mattocks has noted several times in this thread, nothing is in writing.

Taekwondodad get use to that type of communication from USAT, you do not have the right name for them to call you back. Sorry but everyone knows what I mean.

 

[britt_boo]

sorry to hear that, does your daughter know any other weapons that she could maybe use?

 

[StudentCarl]

Taekwondodad get use to that type of communication from USAT, you do not have the right name for them to call you back. Sorry but everyone knows what I mean.

Just a follow-up to my first reply (post #2 in this thread): it's been a week since I emailed USAT and I've had no reply at all to this question.

Carl