Now why do you think you get to talk about this to a stranger?

This is the price you pay for force feeding your pet political agendas into everyday life every moment you get.

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Transk53 said:
Would you have not been a little peeved if a adult walked into a tent you were in and touched you up, irrespective of gender or sexuality? Why would that differ from a child. Or am I missing something here.
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Does the scouts have a good record in that by the way?
 
The person who knocks on your door doesn't know they are knocking at an inconvenient time for you. There is no way in hell they can know your schedule. I'm with granfire on this one: let's not talk about abortion to toddlers. Those people could just say "no thanks."
 
wingchun100 said:
The person who knocks on your door doesn't know they are knocking at an inconvenient time for you. There is no way in hell they can know your schedule. I'm with granfire on this one: let's not talk about abortion to toddlers. Those people could just say "no thanks."
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Sounded like they were telling the adult and the kid overheard.
 
wingchun100 said:
Okay, if we want to get into semantics, then let's not talk about abortion AROUND them either.
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Why if its no big deal. Its not a baby yet its just a glob of cells or a fetus why does the word abortion offend people. And if the GSA doesn't want it mentioned they need to stop associating with groups that support it.
 
My opinion is that there is never a reason to be rude, and I believe that discussing politics with a child is rude. I don't buy girl scout cookies. Acting as the "cookie mom" for my daughter's brownie troop gave me way too much insight into the entire process, and I hate the idea that people are essentially creating the world's most effective sales force out of our cute little girls.

But, that's got nothing to do with a young lady (of any age) who is just doing her thing.

Here's a question for the LEO here. Is it okay to knowingly expose yourself to a minor, even if it's on your front stoop? On the one hand, my ******** meter redlined when I heard that. I seriously doubt anyone's that much of a douche bag. But, on the other hand, in what world is it okay, for any reason, to knowingly expose yourself to a minor? Or to anyone, for that matter?

All of that aside, I'm with granfire on this one. We all have opinions on things, but children shouldn't be burdened by your politics or mine. As much as I despise the entire idea of girl scouts selling anything, I smile at them and try to be as pleasant as possible when I see them outside the grocery store.
 
ballen0351 said:
Why if its no big deal. Its not a baby yet its just a glob of cells or a fetus why does the word abortion offend people. And if the GSA doesn't want it mentioned they need to stop associating with groups that support it.
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Whether or not you believe it is a giant deal or no big deal at all, can't we agree that it's a little dickish to throw that at a pre-teen trying to sell some cookies?

Ballen, regardless of your opinion on abortion or the girl scouts, you seem like way to decent of a guy to start politicking with someone else's pre-teenaged daughter. I'll be very surprised if you tell me you'd do this.
 
Steve said:
Whether or not you believe it is a giant deal or no big deal at all, can't we agree that it's a little dickish to throw that at a pre-teen trying to sell some cookies?

Ballen, regardless of your opinion on abortion or the girl scouts, you seem like way to decent of a guy to start politicking with someone else's pre-teenaged daughter. I'll be very surprised if you tell me you'd do this.
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I wouldn't say anything to the kids, it Id say it to the adult. BUT my point was to Gran who is a pro-death supporter and thinks its no big deal. SO if its no big deal why is the word so offensive. They didn't show pictures of an aborted baby or describe the process they said "Nope I don't like your support of abortions" and that was the end unless there was more Gran didn't post. So if the act isn't a big del why is the word so offensive
 
Steve said:
My opinion is that there is never a reason to be rude, and I believe that discussing politics with a child is rude. I don't buy girl scout cookies. Acting as the "cookie mom" for my daughter's brownie troop gave me way too much insight into the entire process, and I hate the idea that people are essentially creating the world's most effective sales force out of our cute little girls.

But, that's got nothing to do with a young lady (of any age) who is just doing her thing.

Here's a question for the LEO here. Is it okay to knowingly expose yourself to a minor, even if it's on your front stoop? On the one hand, my ******** meter redlined when I heard that. I seriously doubt anyone's that much of a douche bag. But, on the other hand, in what world is it okay, for any reason, to knowingly expose yourself to a minor? Or to anyone, for that matter?

All of that aside, I'm with granfire on this one. We all have opinions on things, but children shouldn't be burdened by your politics or mine. As much as I despise the entire idea of girl scouts selling anything, I smile at them and try to be as pleasant as possible when I see them outside the grocery store.
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exposing yourself and saying a word abortion are totally different. However since you asked I can walk around inside my home naked as a jay bird if I want no matter who sees me. I cant go out side to my front stoop but I can stand in my living room next to the window and do naked bend and thrusts all day if I want.
 
ballen0351 said:
I wouldn't say anything to the kids, it Id say it to the adult. BUT my point was to Gran who is a pro-death supporter and thinks its no big deal. SO if its no big deal why is the word so offensive. They didn't show pictures of an aborted baby or describe the process they said "Nope I don't like your support of abortions" and that was the end unless there was more Gran didn't post. So if the act isn't a big del why is the word so offensive
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I am an atheist, but don't think there's anything wrong at all with being religious. I don't think Jesus is offensive, and I encourage my kids to be curious about religion and respecting other peoples' beliefs. But, I think it would be very inappropriate for a stranger to talk in any way about Jesus with my 5 year old.

You're fixating on whether the word is offensive to granfire, but in my opinion, it doesn't have to be offensive to make it inappropriate.

And, hey, can you help me out with my other question? Is is legal for a guy to knowingly expose himself to a minor, even if it's on his porch? One of the other guys in the thread alleges to answer his door naked, even when he knows it's the girl scouts ringing the bell. That sounds like BS to me, but I am curious if it's legal. (Edit: I'm referring to the exchange in posts 2 through 6 of this thread).
 
Steve said:
I am an atheist, but don't think there's anything wrong at all with being religious. I don't think Jesus is offensive, and I encourage my kids to be curious about religion and respecting other peoples' beliefs. But, I think it would be very inappropriate for a stranger to talk in any way about Jesus with my 5 year old.
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so saying the word Jesus would offend you? If someone said Jesus loves you to your kids in passing that would offend you? Nobody talked to a kid about abortion they simply said the word. that's it no more no less. No I don't want cookies because of the GSA stance on abortions" and walked away that's not talking to a kid about abortions that simply saying the word.
You're fixating on whether the word is offensive to granfire, but in my opinion, it doesn't have to be offensive to make it inappropriate.

And, hey, can you help me out with my other question? Is is legal for a guy to knowingly expose himself to a minor, even if it's on his porch? One of the other guys in the thread alleges to answer his door naked, even when he knows it's the girl scouts ringing the bell. That sounds like BS to me, but I am curious if it's legal. (Edit: I'm referring to the exchange in posts 2 through 6 of this thread).
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depends on the state. As far as I know here he would be ok as long as he ever walked outside. You have an expectation of privacy in your home. I can double check but I don't know of any offenses he would violate. Public nudity or indecent exposure here needs to occur in a public place or a place that the general public can see. opening your door and staying inside wouldn't fit BUT every state is different and Im not a lawyer. I wouldn't arrest for it if I got the call but id run it past the states atty and ask if they wanted me to file charges but as described answering the door but never exiting the house I think you would be ok. going outside would be a different story
 
Steve said:
Here's a question for the LEO here. Is it okay to knowingly expose yourself to a minor, even if it's on your front stoop? On the one hand, my ******** meter redlined when I heard that. I seriously doubt anyone's that much of a douche bag. But, on the other hand, in what world is it okay, for any reason, to knowingly expose yourself to a minor? Or to anyone, for that matter?
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As described above (answering the door naked), I would probably charge -- but not be 100% confident the case would survive prosecution. One of the key elements in indecent exposure is a "lewd or lascivious display" and the argument has been made that simply being naked is not a lewd or lascivious display. My counter to that would be that choosing to answer the door that way is creating a display, and deliberately exposure, therefore lewd if not lascivious. I'd point out the distinction between running downstairs to fetch a pair of undershorts out of the dryer (or even living a nudist life inside your house), and someone inadvertently looking in the window and catching a glimpse and answering the door while undressed is that one is a chance observation and the other a deliberate revelation.

For an actual example... here's the final outcome of a Fairfax County (VA) case. The guy was seen by two different people some time apart (and other accounts at the time suggest it may not have been as isolated an incident as implied in this article), inside his own home, naked. He was convicted in a trial in General District Court (not a court of record) and appealed, getting a de novo trial in Circuit Court, where a jury acquitted him.
 
I just double checked the criminal digest and the only way being naked and answering the door would be a crime would be if you started touching your genitals or were aroused when you came to the door. Just being nude is not a crime
 
I would suggest a no solicitation and no trespassing signs as opposed to answering the door naked however
 
ballen0351 said:
so saying the word Jesus would offend you? If someone said Jesus loves you to your kids in passing that would offend you? Nobody talked to a kid about abortion they simply said the word. that's it no more no less. No I don't want cookies because of the GSA stance on abortions" and walked away that's not talking to a kid about abortions that simply saying the word.

depends on the state. As far as I know here he would be ok as long as he ever walked outside. You have an expectation of privacy in your home. I can double check but I don't know of any offenses he would violate. Public nudity or indecent exposure here needs to occur in a public place or a place that the general public can see. opening your door and staying inside wouldn't fit BUT every state is different and Im not a lawyer. I wouldn't arrest for it if I got the call but id run it past the states atty and ask if they wanted me to file charges but as described answering the door but never exiting the house I think you would be ok. going outside would be a different story
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Would it offend me? No. Do I think it's appropriate? Also no.

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I find most direct selling to be very intrusive. I think this weekend I saw one of the worst examples of it. There was a group of U.S. Marines gathered in front of a grocery store near the park on Saturday, and they were standing right in line with the door frame so they could literally get right in your face and ask you to buy a raffle ticket. Next day, Sunday, same group was at Wal-Mart, same tactics.

I don't know what the raffle is for, but I certainly don't appreciate grown men positioning themselves a few inches away from me knowing that I have to use that door to get in and out of the store as a way to make their money. That, frankly, is pretty sick. Had I not been out on park business, I might have skipped the retailer all together.
 
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