No Closed Fist Strikes?

[t01880]

In Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence , he mentions a style of Okinawan karate that had no closed fist strikes until the modern era. I found this interesting.

So my question is this:

Are there any striking based forms of karate/kung fu/korean arts that have NO closed fist strikes?

If so, what are they and what has been your experience with them?

Thanks for your time.

Tom

 

[clfsean]

In Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence , he mentions a style of Okinawan karate that had no closed fist strikes until the modern era. I found this interesting.

So my question is this:

Are there any striking based forms of karate/kung fu/korean arts that have NO closed fist strikes?

If so, what are they and what has been your experience with them?

Thanks for your time.

Tom

What's the name of the style he mentioned?

Everything I've done has open & closed hands.

 

[t01880]

that's the thing, he doesn't mention the name.

 

[clfsean]

that's the thing, he doesn't mention the name.

I'll have to ask around & I think he's on a board that I'm on. I'll check there too...

**sent a PM to Rory... I'll let you know what I hear.**

 

[clfsean]

Per Rory... Uechi ryu.

 

[Xue Sheng]

In Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence , he mentions a style of Okinawan karate that had no closed fist strikes until the modern era. I found this interesting.

So my question is this:

Are there any striking based forms of karate/kung fu/korean arts that have NO closed fist strikes?

If so, what are they and what has been your experience with them?

Thanks for your time.

Tom

Police/Military Sanda

The training for palm strikes is rather hard. You do a whole lot of strike training on things like walls and trees.

 

[Tez3]

Police/Military Sanda

The training for palm strikes is rather hard. You do a whole lot of strike training on things like walls and trees.

Walls and trees are deadly things, every week we pick up soldiers that have been attacked by them...seriously! Well, okay they are drunk and walk into them lol!

 

[Xue Sheng]

Walls and trees are deadly things, every week we pick up soldiers that have been attacked by them...seriously! Well, okay they are drunk and walk into them lol!

Had one jump me once... seriously, it took me out of MA for a bit too.

 

[girlbug2]

:drinky:Xue, was that a wall or a tree?

 

[Rich Parsons]

In Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence , he mentions a style of Okinawan karate that had no closed fist strikes until the modern era. I found this interesting.

So my question is this:

Are there any striking based forms of karate/kung fu/korean arts that have NO closed fist strikes?

If so, what are they and what has been your experience with them?

Thanks for your time.

Tom

I do not know anything about a non closed fist striking system form Japan, but it sounds like you have some good guys like Sean looking into it and providing some good feedback.

I do know that some police organizations train in special programs that will highlight the use of open hand techniques.

I personally like the use of open hand techniques, but that could be just my exerpience from being a bouncer years ago.

 

[punisher73]

Per Rory... Uechi ryu.

I had thought of that style, they mainly using open hand/spearhand techniques. But, they do still have closed fist strikes (punches) as well.

Their Sanchin kata still utilizes the open hand strikes as it was thought to be originally taught. Also, if you watch their kata, I would say that a LARGE percentage of the hand techniques are all open handed.

 

[clfsean]

I had thought of that style, they mainly using open hand/spearhand techniques. But, they do still have closed fist strikes (punches) as well.

Their Sanchin kata still utilizes the open hand strikes as it was thought to be originally taught. Also, if you watch their kata, I would say that a LARGE percentage of the hand techniques are all open handed.

That was my thought & I told Rory it's hard to think of Uechi & not think of a fist. But then I sat & thought about what Rory said & it makes sense. He said Uechi had the fists added in to be more "mainline" with what was going on in Okinawa. They still use a large percentage of open hand strikes (my thoughts after the fact) but you still see the fist (my thoughts at first).

That I can think of almost all of the Chinese Sam Chien (mainly White Crane & 5 Ancestor) I've seen is open handed. I'd have to review video to be sure, but I'm confident it's all open handed.

 

[Touch Of Death]

In Rory Miller's Meditations on Violence , he mentions a style of Okinawan karate that had no closed fist strikes until the modern era. I found this interesting.

So my question is this:

Are there any striking based forms of karate/kung fu/korean arts that have NO closed fist strikes?

If so, what are they and what has been your experience with them?

Thanks for your time.

Tom

In our school we only close part of the fist. I know that doesn't count.
Sean

 

[Xue Sheng]

:drinky:Xue, was that a wall or a tree?

Tree. :drinkbeer

And when I say jumped I mean more like fell. I was working on a tree farm (white oak and cherry) at the time. This is why to this day I say "never trust a tree"

 

[Rich Parsons]

Tree. :drinkbeer

And when I say jumped I mean more like fell. I was working on a tree farm (white oak and cherry) at the time. This is why to this day I say "never trust a tree"

My grandfather was a tree surgeon until a tree fell that was marked safe and solid. He lived but in a wheel chair the rest of his life, my whole life that I knew him.

Trees can be very dangerous. Listen to Xue he seems to have experience and knowledge.

 

[Xue Sheng]

My grandfather was a tree surgeon until a tree fell that was marked safe and solid. He lived but in a wheel chair the rest of his life, my whole life that I knew him.

Trees can be very dangerous. Listen to Xue he seems to have experience and knowledge.

Yes I know how to get hit by a tree and why it is not a good idea

Also why Sanda is perfect, you train open palm strikes on trees, it was just my little way of getting even :EG:

About 30 years ago my uncle had one fall on him as well it landed on his legs (turned one 180 degrees) it put him in the hospital for a very long time and got him several operataions but luckily he is still walking and in his 80s now.

 

[howard]

Are there any striking based forms of... korean arts that have NO closed fist strikes?

If so, what are they and what has been your experience with them?

I'd have to say yes.

Jungki hapkido, which is based on the aikijujutsu that Choi Yong Sul learned in Japan, does not use closed-fist strikes. We use a good variety of hand, wrist, forearm and elbow strikes, but none with the fist closed, unless you'd include the single-knuckle strike (forefinger or middle finger).

It's always struck me as curious.

 

[Live True]

First, if this post contributes to thread drift, please, moderators, feel free to split into another post.

I'm curious and would love to hear other's thoughts on this. I actually train in Uechi-ryu, and we do use a lot of open hand techniques. There are closed fist punches, but all motions (at least as I have been taught to date) are taught as potentials.

My current thought on this is that an important part of Uechi is the ability to grab. The hiraken (flat fist), shoken (one knuckle fist), and boshiken (fingertips and thumb in open, claw-like position) are all quickly and easily adaptable to pinching and grabbing. These can be used offensively (throwing your opponent off balance, controlling thier movements) and defensively (grabbing/pinching sensitive spots to cause release or pause in your attacker).

So, I'd love someone more experienced than I to comment on whether this may be the point? or at least one consideration?

I will also post this to the uechi-ryu forums and let you know what comes of the discussions there.

 

[Xue Sheng]

First, if this post contributes to thread drift, please, moderators, feel free to split into another post.

I'm curious and would love to hear other's thoughts on this. I actually train in Uechi-ryu, and we do use a lot of open hand techniques. There are closed fist punches, but all motions (at least as I have been taught to date) are taught as potentials.

My current thought on this is that an important part of Uechi is the ability to grab. The hiraken (flat fist), shoken (one knuckle fist), and boshiken (fingertips and thumb in open, claw-like position) are all quickly and easily adaptable to pinching and grabbing. These can be used offensively (throwing your opponent off balance, controlling thier movements) and defensively (grabbing/pinching sensitive spots to cause release or pause in your attacker).

So, I'd love someone more experienced than I to comment on whether this may be the point? or at least one consideration?

I will also post this to the uechi-ryu forums and let you know what comes of the discussions there.

I have no idea if I am more experienced than you but looking at this from a Sanda perspective you can switch much easier, IMO, to a grab (Qinna ad Shuaijiao) from an open hand strike than a fist and, IMO, you are less likely to show your intent to strike using an open hand strike than you are with a fist.

 

[Live True]

Xue, you are most definatley more experienced, as I am only 1 1/2 years into my training and a mere Nana Kyu. It's nice to know I've got a little bit of a clue in my thinking, though! Thank you.