Ninjutsu is not a martial art.

[Oily Dragon]

things continue to change, and how it is practiced today is not identical to how it was practiced 100 or 300 years ago. The door needs to be open to that change, and that change does not alter the identity of that system. It just means that it is adapted based on the current experiences of the practitioners.

Some things change, some never change even over a thousand years. The weapons change, the armor changes, but take all that away, the only way to gain a skill is to suffer for it.

Because suffering is the literal definition of the "nin" kanji 忍.

"Ninpo" is not much different than "kung fu", linguistically. Now that I think of it, the Chinese pronunciation of "po" is "fa"/"fat", the same as in quan fa.

 

[Sifu Ken of 8 Tigers]

Ninjutsu is not a martial art, it is part of a martial tradition. Jutsu indicates skillset, in this case, the skills related to Nin. Nin can be translated many ways, commonly as stealth, invisibility, perseverance, and intention. Taijutsu means 'body skills', and the martial art being referred to as Ninjutsu so often is called Ninpo Taijutsu. Essentially what Ninjutsu consisted of in history were the skills of espionage, intelligence gathering, escape and evasion, and guerrilla warfare. Psychological tactics and camoflouge were certainly employed for fighting, but the Shinobi most of all wished to avoid open combat. Their way was to blend in, to escape attention, to be 'invisible' at least in their intent. Today, Ninjutsu is alive and well and grown immeasurably in degree of complexity. Any and everything one might gain skill in, that may enhance your capability to escape danger, can be considered Ninjutsu, if associated with the study of Ninpo.

You need not spend so much time defending your words as far as I'm concerned. Your view is reasonable and your point was well made. These other guys are being the semantic pedants.

 

[punisher73]

In the 80s, I definitely wanted to be a ninja. I settled for Wing Chun, because that's the school that was nearby. But if I had found a ninja school, i would definitely have signed up.

To be clear... this kind of ninja. I loved the show "The Master' with Lee Van Cleef:

I loved that show as a kid. I was able to get the series on dvd for a REALLY cheap price and rewatched it. Brought back a lot of good memories. Also, wasn't too bad and was very representative of 80's action shows/movies. But, when compared to newer stuff, very cheesey.

 

[punisher73]

Aren't we at the point now where Ninjutsu practitioners don't even call themselves Ninjutsu practitioners or "Ninja" anymore?

That said, I see nothing wrong with what the OP is saying. A lot of "Ninjutsu" being peddled around (especially during the "Ninja craze" of the 80s and 90s) was simply a marketing gimmick.

I think it depends on the group. I have seen some that focus more on the "jujitsu" aspects of their art and downplay it. Other groups I have seen, are focused on the "ninjutsu" aspect and have started to teach the bushcraft, gray man stuff. As far as the Bujinkan as a whole, they focus the name of their art as "Budo Taijutsu".

 

[Steve]

I loved that show as a kid. I was able to get the series on dvd for a REALLY cheap price and rewatched it. Brought back a lot of good memories. Also, wasn't too bad and was very representative of 80's action shows/movies. But, when compared to newer stuff, very cheesey.

Some of those shows hold up pretty well. Some... not so much.

 

[Hanzou]

This ruined Ninjutsu forever;

Great show btw.

 

[Oily Dragon]

This ruined Ninjutsu forever;

Great show btw.

There's an antidote. I've seen it work on kids.

Wait until they're about 16 though. Let them enjoy their youth a little, before they get the real ninjas.

 

[Steve]

This ruined Ninjutsu forever;

Great show btw.

My son wore the headband to school every day for a year when he was in the 2nd grade. He loved that show. He is an OG Naruto fan... watched it when it was first on TV.

 

[lklawson]

Hell yeah. Who didn't want to be a Ninja as a kid? Remember all the Ninja books that came out during that time period? Looking back, those books were just plain crazy.

I found a link to some.

Classic NINJA Titles

Classic Ninja Titles by Ashida Kim present the first five books published in his award winning and prolific literary contribution to understanding the history, methods, and motives of the mysterious Ninja, invisible assassins of ancient Japan, who could penetrate anywhere unseen, kill without...

dojopress.com

<ducking> <running> <hiding>



Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[jks9199]

the term Ninja was coined in the 1970's. the people who developed Ninjutsu and Ninpo Taijutsu were known throught history by many names, Shinobi no Mono (the people of Shinobi) was most common, from what i've read.

Might I ask you name your sources? The fact is that, outside of Fujita Seiko and (arguably) Maasaki Hatsumi, there's not a lot of reliable written info out there, and there's a whole lot of questionable stuff out there.

 

[tim po]

Might I ask you name your sources? The fact is that, outside of Fujita Seiko and (arguably) Maasaki Hatsumi, there's not a lot of reliable written info out there, and there's a whole lot of questionable stuff out there.

you just named them.

 

[Hanzou]

Might I ask you name your sources? The fact is that, outside of Fujita Seiko and (arguably) Maasaki Hatsumi, there's not a lot of reliable written info out there, and there's a whole lot of questionable stuff out there.

I'm curious, do scholars of classical Japanese martial arts still consider Maasaki Hatsumi a legitimate source of Ninjutsu?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I didn't mean to come across as such a judgy mcjudgypants, i could have done better in expressing this concern. there is so much hype and nonsense surrounding the Shinobi traditions, I had hoped that the community would by now have routed out alot of the mystique by avoiding commonly misunderstood terminology, like 'ninja' and 'ninjutsu'. but, i suppose it still sells memberships.

to answer your question, traditions kept alive beyond their relevance in modern application are what they are-living, but on life-support. that 'life-support' is the paying consumer. Martial Traditions are what remains of a Martial Art 100 years after it has ceased to exist in dynamic relevance. kept alive for it's wisdom, but not as functional as it was once, because it has stopped growing, adapting, and seeking relevance in a changing world. kinda like me, i suppose. nothing exists in a static state. all in the universe as we know it is either growing or dying. nothing can remain as is forever, and tradition itself may impede creative expansion, barring a path of relevance into the future. If there is anything I hold dear that I have learned from the philosophy of Ninpo, it is the importance of full creative involvement on the part of the practitioner.

I think this begs the question: relevant to what?

 

[tim po]

I'm curious, do scholars of classical Japanese martial arts still consider Maasaki Hatsumi a legitimate source of Ninjutsu?

any reason why they wouldn't?

I think this begs the question: relevant to what?

indeed it does, sir.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

any reason why they wouldn't?

indeed it does, sir.

You brought up relevance, so I was hoping you had an idea what you were referring to.

 

[tim po]

You brought up relevance, so I was hoping you had an idea what you were referring to.

i do. but it is my observation, my perception, my experience, and we all have those things for ourselves. if thought has been provoked, think.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

i do. but it is my observation, my perception, my experience, and we all have those things for ourselves. if thought has been provoked, think.

If you refuse to provide context for your post, your post only means what people think it means. Which is kind of not how you want communication to work.

So, rather than dancing around, why not share what you meant, so I can reply to that. Otherwise, I'm just replying to whatever I thought you meant.

 

[Hanzou]

any reason why they wouldn't?

He's been on rather shaky ground in regards to lineage, some of his claims, and technical ability.

 

[dunc]

He's been on rather shaky ground in regards to lineage, some of his claims, and technical ability.

The lineages of most of the schools are not questioned by anyone. Frankly just these are enough as they contain a huge curriculum

Sure some lineages are more murky historically, but these account for about 5% of the curriculum and regardless of the limited data points available to validate their history the techniques work well in my experience

Also worth noting that Hatsumi sensei has been designated a living national treasure (Jūyō Mukei Bunkazai Hojisha) by the government
They limit these to a total of 116 living people and in terms of martial artists he's in the same company as the Soke of Bokuden Ryu and Seikichi Uehara or the chef Jiro Ono

He was awarded the level of "sword saint" (or similar translation) from the national association for preserving the methods of kenjutsu

 

[tim po]

He's been on rather shaky ground in regards to lineage, some of his claims, and technical ability.

i am unaware of that, but there are few more trustworthy sources to my knowledge.