ninja or sulsa

[SageGhost83]

but do you REALLY believe that ALL indigeneous martial art knowledge vanished from the peninsula during the occupation?

Yes, because we are the west and if we don't know about them then they are either fake or they don't exist anymore . Okay, let me stop goofing off - it is kind of hard given the topic of the thread. I think that *something* survived the occupation and I agree with you that it would be absurd to think that *everything* was wiped out. Also remember that we only have access to roughly half of the country. I am pretty sure that the North Koreans wouldn't like us searching around their neck of the woods for clues concerning the indigenous arts. Who knows what we'd find up there concerning KMA, maybe some lost manuals or artifacts or something. Perhaps practictioners of whatever survived chose to keep their knowledge to themselves? Or maybe they didn't survive the Korean war and their knowledge died with them? Until they reunify, we are only left with half of the equation, at best. I seriously doubt, however, that what we practice today is connected with the indigenous arts. I doubt it, but that is only coming from my own limited knowledge of Korea. As always, I could be wrong...

 

[SageGhost83]

Of course, you could always ask the Korean version of Ashida Kim :lol:.

 

[Omar B]

Of course, you could always ask the Korean version of Ashida Kim :lol:.

He's the Sulsiest.

 

[arnisador]

but do you REALLY believe that ALL indigeneous martial art knowledge vanished from the peninsula during the occupation?

On the one hand, I grant that that doesn't seem plausible, and in my gut I've never truly believed it...on the other hand, where are the authentic Native American arts? Look at how few African arts survive. Arts die out--it happens.

There's just not much evidence of Korean arts surviving in other than document form--pictures passed down from earlier times, recreated in the way Pankration has been.

 

[Xue Sheng]

You know, folks, even Joo Bang Lee has stated that many of the monestaries in China were attended by Korean monks.

Arts have been shared across borders, folks. Come on. You say Potayto and I say Potahto.

Do you *think* it might be *plausible* that there have been spies who brought training secrets back to their own militaries? Perhaps hundreds or thousands of years ago? And as arts were cultivated on the peninsula and in the north these arts grew? and perhaps were augmented by further recon? I'm sorry, the whole lineage thing just leaves me dry (with all due respect to Xue and others like him).

When you fight or spar someone, do you take notice of their strengths and weaknesses? their approach to offense and defense? their strategy? Has this ever changed your approach to either the same individual or others? Don't you think you might not be the first person to do so?

I don't see the necessity of bashing arts, beliefs, oral history, persons sharing these things herein, if we can all just accept that the most likely result is almost definitely what did happen.

*Dons Forest Gump voice* ... 'And that's all I have to say about thayat."

*shesulsa voice* ... maybe ...

First both Korean and Chinese Monks trained in China that is part of how Buddhism spread.

Second this

I'm sorry, the whole lineage thing just leaves me dry (with all due respect to Xue and others like him

I think you may have the wrong impression of the importance I place on lineage. I like history, particularly Chinese history and a lineage is history. They are also good, as far as CMA is concerned, for exposing frauds on occasion. Other than that they mean little. The fact I may or may not have a good lineage in CMA does not equate to a good or bad fighter.

I know my Taiji lineage because I found out by accident who my sifu's sifu was and then I started asking a whole lot of questions and doing a whole lot of research in that lineage which lead me to researching a lot of other Taiji families because I like that sort of thing but it means little as to martial arts skill.

On the other hand I am absolutely clueless as to who my Sanda sifu is and it does not matter to me that much and that guy is just plain tough, even without Sanda, with Sanda he is highly skilled and tough as well as a very good fighter and he never talks about his lineage. The the most he has ever said is he will have to ask his sifu the next time he sees him.

Additionally my Taiji sifu never talks about his lineage either he only told me because I was annoying and asked a lot of questions

 

[Xue Sheng]

I hesitate greatly to so freely criticize its founder

:asian:

 

[tellner]

Oh, yes, Doc Judt, I've told you before. You're not going to drag me into the Ter Linden versus de Thouars unpleasantness. You've tried a couple times. It's the wrong button to try and push. Much as I respect my teacher's teacher I have no interest in continuing the falling out he had with his former friend. If you want to get continue someone else's feud, feel free. Knock yourself out. Do it alone, please.

 

[Doc_Jude]

I have no idea if someone named Sera or Serak ever lived. I'm pretty sure about Djut because independent witnesses in Indonesia and the States confirm it. The stories tend to match.

I know that Sera in various forms is a West Javanese martial art. Other Silat players from other backgrounds say it looks like it has Cimande, Pamacan, maybe some Ciular, and some Chinese influence. They've got the expertise and don't have a horse in the Dutch Indo Horse Race. All of that would make sense. As it's practiced in Bandung - according to more than one person with good connections and experience - it's generally regarded as a Silat system with a healthy amount of Chinese influence, but not so much that it's classed as Kun Tao. That fits with the system as I've learned it.

I assume that you're talking about the six original Serah Juru & not the 12+ that were added via the deThouars?

 

[kaizasosei]

tellner, you sure are a hard marker.
i would love to be able to shed some light on the situation, but unfortunately, i don't really know how.

i do admit that i treat all modern ninja spiels as suspect and have little need for any fantasy nor newly thoughtup training. however, i bet there is some truth to the sulsa story. dunno about the name even but i believe that cultures have equivalents(give or take) of ninjas all over the world.
also, i think it wouldn't be farfetched to think that in the 500 year history of the last ninjaboom, bits and pieces of the socalled ninjaculture of japan at that time were spread to neighboring countries like korea.

what if an actual historical ninja himself or herself really did move house to korea.?? ---the possibilities are endless...wouldn't want to be making up any stories, but reality is probably more crazy than most stories that could be made up.

still, this has little to do with the issue you all are discussing.


peace

 

[kaizasosei]

sorry 2

is it worth it? can it be positive?
at what expense should one attempt to dethrone certain arts or their proponents?

 

[shesulsa]

I don't drink the Pandan-flavored Kool Aid and wouldn't expect you to without some sort of evidence. You demand that I do and consider anything left in the glass to be an attack on you, your teachers, your martial arts and probably the entire Korean peninsula.

It seems you have a bad habit of misquoting me. Show me where I said this or stop misquoting me period - it's rude. Show me. Link me.

 

[shesulsa]

Oh, yes, Doc Judt, I've told you before. You're not going to drag me into the Ter Linden versus de Thouars unpleasantness. You've tried a couple times. It's the wrong button to try and push. Much as I respect my teacher's teacher I have no interest in continuing the falling out he had with his former friend. If you want to get continue someone else's feud, feel free. Knock yourself out. Do it alone, please.

What was that about sauces for geese and ganders?

 

[shesulsa]

So perhaps we can bring this back around full circle to the question by the original poster: "which is more deadly?"

I honestly don't like to think of arts in this manner. The variables involved in making such a judgment are wide - the instructor, that instructor's training/experience combination, how the style is taught, how the teacher teaches, class structure, syllabic content and focus, individual talent and fervor ....

The real depths of fighting arts, killing arts, stealth and combat are delved into by few.

That said ... Kreth's and Cryozombie's demo and instruction were titillating - I enjoyed it very much. Hwarang_do_adam, if you have the opportunity to witness or trade moves with some bujinkan ninja for fun or on the side, take it. I think it's fascinating. :asian:

 

[Cryozombie]

That said ... Kreth's and Cryozombie's demo and instruction were titillating - I enjoyed it very much. Hwarang_do_adam, if you have the opportunity to witness or trade moves with some bujinkan ninja for fun or on the side, take it. I think it's fascinating. :asian:

hey I didn't demo anything... I just got thrown around.

 

[Kreth]

Kreth's and Cryozombie's demo and instruction were titillating

Uh... what happens in Buffalo stays in Buffalo... :uhyeah:

hey I didn't demo anything... I just got thrown around.

Yeah, but you have such a good pain face... :lol:

 

[hwarang_do_adam]

hahaha look what i have started. I've created a monster.

 

[Grenadier]

Moderator's note:

Posts dealing with the origins and background of Hwarang Do have been moved to this thread.

Posts dealing with the loyalty issues of Hwarang Do have been moved to this thread.

Please continue such discussions in their respective threads.

Thank you!

-Ronald Shin
-MT Supermoderator

 

[jim777]

So perhaps we can bring this back around full circle to the question by the original poster: "which is more deadly?"

If it's got habaneros in it, then definitely the salsa.

(come on, lots of people were thinking it! )

jim

 

[hwarang_do_adam]

so i just want to know who took my rep points and why. i liked playing the arcade games

 

[SageGhost83]

so i just want to know who took my rep points and why. i liked playing the arcade games

Perhaps it was the ninja. Or maybe the Sulsa took them, and now they are "the Korean rep points" :rofl:.