Ninja Mask???

[kwaichang]

ahhh, the voice of (?) which disputes the Japanese governments authentication of Hatsumi's scrolls of lineage; the roll of ninjas guarding leaders of provinces and later on their castles.
We're not talking Tom Cruise in M.I. here.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Kwai, the fantasy history of the Ninja as promulgated during the 20th and 21st centuries has very little to do with reality and a lot to do with theatre and cinema.

It's ground that has been covered many times, particulary the non-existence in history of the Ninja-to. A search here or at SFI will buy you more research material than you could ever wish for.

Quick precis - the ninja-to is a modern-era cinematic prop. There were straight swords in Japan in times of antiquity, prior to the development of what we now recognise as the katana but these were not what is popularly conceived as the Sword of the Ninja.

I don't doubt that ninja had specialized swords to suit their purpose, I just don't buy that what's sold in magazines as the "ninja-to" (TM, reserved) was it.

Cryozombie PM'd me concerning a sword patterned after a known Togakure-Ryu pattern that I'm very interested to see as to whether it matches the description someone gave me concerning a ninja's sword which to date has been the only explanation that has made any sense to me( The description I got was katana-size handle, katana-size scabbard, wakizashi size blade, the idea told to me was that this could cause a samurai to misjudge the time it would take the ninja to draw his sword so that if he was fooled into thinking he was getting into a straight-up "sword duel" that by the time he got to drawing his katana he was already at a speed disadvantage. This seems to work toward a ninja's ostensible purpose of misdirection in combat, so it makes sense to me.

Of course, this being the ninjutsu board, if this is incorrect, I'm sure someone more knowledgeable will correct me. Fun topic either way.

 

[Andy Moynihan]

Returning to the original topic:

I don't doubt that something along the lines of the stereotypical shinobi-shozoku existed, certainly clandestine missions would necessarily require either a civilian disguise or dark, nonreflective clothing, and in the case of needing the dark, nonreflective clothing you'd want your head/face covered too, because even a darker-skinned face will reflect moonlight at night( if it didn't we wouldn't still use camouflage cream on or faces to this day).

But as far as they all being the one, Hollywood pattern? No.

 

[Kreth]

You're absolutely correct, Andy. The traditional mask was formed by intricately wrapping the head with an obi caked with the grime accumulated from years of hard training. From what I understand it also kept the flies off...



:uhyeah:

 

[Andy Moynihan]

You're absolutely correct, Andy. The traditional mask was formed by intricately wrapping the head with an obi caked with the grime accumulated from years of hard training. From what I understand it also kept the flies off...



:uhyeah:

I would imagine something like that would bring the flies *on*.....

 

[Kreth]

I would imagine something like that would bring the flies *on*.....

You underestimate the power of the unwashed obi... :lol:

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

ahhh, the voice of (?) which disputes the Japanese governments authentication of Hatsumi's scrolls of lineage;

I highly doubt that the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai/Kyokai has anything to do with the Japanese goverment as such. Besides, that has nothing to do with the fact that you've got your own facts mixed up.

 

[exile]

Moderator Note
Please, keep the conversation polite, respectful and on-topic.

-Bob Levine
-MT Moderator-

 

[allenjp]

You do know there is big difference between never never land and never land, right?

Yeah, never never land is twice as big, right?

 

[allenjp]

It's like when you're out shopping, and they walk up to you and ask if you need help with anything, and you're like, "yeah, I'd like a gender change please". Or when you're at McDonald's ordering a menu and they ask you if you're going to eat there, and you're like, "nah, now that you mention it, I think I'll head to Burger King instead".

Cue heretic888(!).

Or like when you're walking down the street, and someone asks you if you have a dollar, and when you say no they say "well in that case here...take mine."

Cumbayah heretic888

 

[allenjp]

If you follow the history of military conflict in general, whenever there has been a disadvantaged, smaller, poorer, guerilla type force, they are generally armed with whatever they can get their hands on. Logic follows that the ninja may have been armed with all of the above. I understand that in many cases they fashioned shuriken out of regular farming tools, who is to say they may not have fashioned their own more crude style of sword? That said, if the katana, and longer samurai swords were superior in quality, it seems logical that they would take them from the samurai whenever they got the chance (such as after killing a samurai). I don't know but it just seems logical...

 

[allenjp]

Yeah, there's some gems on the internet. I remember stumbling across a rather interesting article several years ago. Apparently when fleeing from samurai, the ninja would often urinate into his fundoshi (while on the run ), then strip it off and swing it over a wall. Apparently *real* ninja had adhesive pee, because it would stick in place and allow the crafty ninja to scale the wall and escape. :roflmao:

Ah, found the link. The amazing fundoshi escape is towards the bottom...

Wow!!! I read this link...they can't be serious! The thing about peeing in the fundoshi to scale a wall is the least outlandish thing they say there. People actually believe this **** ???

 

[heretic888]

Cue heretic888(!).

But I like lurking!!

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

But I like lurking!!

And I like to sleep. Nah meen?

I'll give you a hand - ninja WERE samurai. You can take it from there.

 

[heretic888]

And I like to sleep. Nah meen?

I'll give you a hand - ninja WERE samurai. You can take it from there.

Oh, bother.

Okay, allenjp, rather than explain all your misconceptions ad nauseum, I'll just supply you a thread to peruse at your leisure:

Ninjutsu History sources

Now you can come to your own conclusions about this "highly illegal counterculture" *snicker*.

Laterz.

 

[allenjp]

Oh, bother.

Okay, allenjp, rather than explain all your misconceptions ad nauseum, I'll just supply you a thread to peruse at your leisure:

Ninjutsu History sources

Now you can come to your own conclusions about this "highly illegal counterculture" *snicker*.

Laterz.

Thank you, but why do you say I have misconceptions? I started this thread with a question, not presuppositions, then others posted their opinions. I did not say anything about them being a "highly illegal counter culture", that was another poster. I simply asked a question and then after reading some opinions stated what might seem logical to me, not any attempts at stating facts. That said I earnestly thank you for the info source.

 

[heretic888]

Thank you, but why do you say I have misconceptions? I started this thread with a question, not presuppositions, then others posted their opinions. I did not say anything about them being a "highly illegal counter culture", that was another poster. I simply asked a question and then after reading some opinions stated what might seem logical to me, not any attempts at stating facts. That said I earnestly thank you for the info source.

Hi allenjp,

My mistake. I confused you for Chris Parker and kwaichang.

Carry on, then.

 

[Grey Eyed Bandit]

If you follow the history of military conflict in general, whenever there has been a disadvantaged, smaller, poorer, guerilla type force, they are generally armed with whatever they can get their hands on. Logic follows that the ninja may have been armed with all of the above. I understand that in many cases they fashioned shuriken out of regular farming tools, who is to say they may not have fashioned their own more crude style of sword? That said, if the katana, and longer samurai swords were superior in quality, it seems logical that they would take them from the samurai whenever they got the chance (such as after killing a samurai). I don't know but it just seems logical...

Those conclusions are pretty much what I would refer to as misconceptions.

 

[Cryozombie]

the idea told to me was that this could cause a samurai to misjudge the time it would take the ninja to draw his sword so that if he was fooled into thinking he was getting into a straight-up "sword duel" that by the time he got to drawing his katana he was already at a speed disadvantage. This seems to work toward a ninja's ostensible purpose of misdirection in combat, so it makes sense to me.

There is also a distance thing involved here... certain techniques for "jamming the draw" (for lack of a better term to use) could be defeated by the shorter blade, allowing the opponent think the "ninja" was too close to draw his sword when in fact the shorter blade facilitated those draws. Sneaky sneaky.

I like my ninja mask to be a shiny silver oni mask that I wear under my Black face wrap so people dont know Im actually a white guy smuggling cocaine into the US from japan in dolls... Oh wait N/M that was a Sho Kosugi Flick. hehe

 

[SageGhost83]

I wouldn't be surprised if the ninja mask was a Hollywood thing, or at least the overemphasis of it was a hollywood thing. As if the Ninja would actually wear it around all day, heh. Hollywood has distorted the image of ninja so badly that the real thing must seem like an exotic, far-fetched creation by now. Well, we have Heretic, VanCise, and other people who actually know what they are talking about to combat all of that nonsense. Thanks guys, you are the ones who helped me overcome my own misconceptions concerning the nin..shinobi no mono (see, I remembered!).