New X-kan?

[MrFunnieman]

Anyone heard of Jizaikan Aiki Ninjutsu? I was surfing the net and came across this site. www.jizaikan.com/default.htm

I find it interesting he has combined elements of Aikido with Ninjutsu. It's really up my ally.

Any thoughts?

MrFunnieman

 

[Tengu6]

They are X-SKH, not X-Kan. Absolutely rediculous IMO. I know one of the guys and he is a good guy, he recently broke from the Quest Center thing and passed up the opportunity to go Bujinkan. Why on earth would anyone do that? How far from the source do they want to get?

Markk Bush

 

[Don Roley]

their founder never even got up to the level of full instrutor in Bujinkan before starting his own style of ninjutsu.

Sorry folks. I have jumped up and down on people calling what Bussey does ninjutsu on this point for too long to change my tune now.

I wish him well in what he does. But I do not think he is all that qualified to even know the difference between dakentaijutsu and ninjutsu.

 

[MrFunnieman]

Like I have said in other posts, I have been leaning towards Aikido... so when I saw this I was curious about how he has tied the movement of the two together.

Don, I saw that he was only a Yondan, but from what I understand he has been studying BBT since the 1980s. I was thinking he lost interest in pursuing rank, but maintained his training? I have recently read posts were rank wasn't a major consideration for BBT practioners. I wasn't sure if his rank reflected his skill level. :idunno:

Markk, I kinda got the impression that they were originally affiliated with BBT, teamed with Hayes, then had a falling out (big surprise)

How far from the source do they want to get?

I guess it depends on one's intentions. He's not really claiming to be affiliated with BBT. I am tempted to get a DVD to see what the movements are like. I am sure it won't look like what's coming out of Japan.

To be honest, I am depressed by the fact there in a mountain of information pertaining to BBT and chances are I won't see all of it. I have read other posts about how only six of the ryuha are primarily taught and there are Japanese seniors who still have not seen everything. I don't plan on any lengthy stays in Japan anytime soon. I love the philosophy behind BBT, but find Aikido less daunting, but akin to BBT on some levels. That's why the combination appealed to me.

 

[MartialIntent]

Like I have said in other posts, I have been leaning towards Aikido... so when I saw this I was curious about how he has tied the movement of the two together.

Don, I saw that he was only a Yondan, but from what I understand he has been studying BBT since the 1980s. I was thinking he lost interest in pursuing rank, but maintained his training? I have recently read posts were rank wasn't a major consideration for BBT practioners. I wasn't sure if his rank reflected his skill level. :idunno:

Markk, I kinda got the impression that they were originally affiliated with BBT, teamed with Hayes, then had a falling out (big surprise)



I guess it depends on one's intentions. He's not really claiming to be affiliated with BBT. I am tempted to get a DVD to see what the movements are like. I am sure it won't look like what's coming out of Japan.

To be honest, I am depressed by the fact there in a mountain of information pertaining to BBT and chances are I won't see all of it. I have read other posts about how only six of the ryuha are primarily taught and there are Japanese seniors who still have not seen everything. I don't plan on any lengthy stays in Japan anytime soon. I love the philosophy behind BBT, but find Aikido less daunting, but akin to BBT on some levels. That's why the combination appealed to me.

I often wonder why instructors feel the need to merge arts. I believe many are riding roughshod through the arts on the backs of their egotistical streaks and I can't help but think that some instructors who attempt to amalgamate two arts have frankly, insufficient expertise in either to carry on the pure traditions. I think ultimately this is to the detriment of both of the merged artforms.

I agree that there are manifold similarities between the physical techniques of the Bujinkan and Aikido [after all, how many methods of applying wristlockare can there be?] but I think the philosophies are at odds - Aikido being the art of peace leaving the attacker unharmed, whereas true ninjutsu will follow through ensuring the job's done. I wonder how this guy has reconciled these fundimental differences?

I think the greatest comparisons between the two arts might be drawn from the application of the likes of Shinden Fudo Ryu [the similarity depending of course upon how it's been taught] but I still have to say, personally I'm not a fan of mixing and matching as I think it leads to eventual erosion of the arts in their pure forms as they were indended when devised and formulated.

Good luck though...

Respects!

 

[Tengu6]

Markk, I kinda got the impression that they were originally affiliated with BBT, teamed with Hayes, then had a falling out (big surprise)

When I see people split from an organizaton (or two) and form a new one like that I can't help but think they couldnt hack it in either one. As if they can't handle being accountable for thier skills, or lack of them.

I could be wrong, but...

I love the philosophy behind BBT, but find Aikido less daunting, but akin to BBT on some levels. That's why the combination appealed to me.

I would suggest looking into Aikido, at a dojo that stricly does Aikido. There is nothing wrong with feeling more comfortable in another martial art, just be weary of off-shoot stlyes.

Just my opinion,
Markk Bush

 

[Kreth]

just be weary of off-shoot stlyes.

I suppose we're all weary of would-be grandmasters, but I think you meant wary. :uhyeah:

 

[Tengu6]

I suppose we're all weary of would-be grandmasters, but I think you meant wary. :uhyeah:

Indeed I did, however both are true! Hey, I thought Don's job was being the English teacher.

Markk Bush

 

[lalom]

The founder Tom Maienza seems to be the founder. Ranked 5th dan in To-shin Do and 4th in Bujinkan Budo. Of course I wasn't there to see what "went down" so as to cause him leaving Mr. Hayes' organization, so I can only speculate. The feeling I get, of which I hope I'm wrong, is that this guy got hungry to see his name propogated, resulting in him trying to be the next superstar. Too bad since he's a nice guy. Not that he's not now, but just to see something like this transpire...

 

[Tengu6]

Of course I wasn't there to see what "went down" so as to cause him leaving Mr. Hayes' organization, so I can only speculate. The feeling I get, of which I hope I'm wrong, is that this guy got hungry to see his name propogated, resulting in him trying to be the next superstar.

I can only speculate as well but I think it went something like this........150 students multiplied by $120/month, minus FRANCHISE fees to SKH equals.........then the Doctor slapped the shiny butt of the baby that is Jizaikan Aiki Ninjutsu.

Then a meeting was called to come up with some really cool names to call each other and design a patch.

But I am only speculating.

Markk Bush

 

[lalom]

Yeah something like that... LOL Looking at the patch, it sure does resemble one from another organization. I can't seem to put my finger on it though. Here they are:

https://www.jizaikan.com:52606/MyOf...lt.aspx?orgId=12606&category=1171&item=104688

https://www.jizaikan.com:52606/MyOf...lt.aspx?orgId=12606&category=1171&item=104690

 

[Fallen Ninja]

Yeah something like that... LOL Looking at the patch, it sure does resemble one from another organization. I can't seem to put my finger on it though. Here they are:

https://www.jizaikan.com:52606/MyOffice/StoreOnline/default.aspx?orgId=12606&category=1171&item=104688

https://www.jizaikan.com:52606/MyOffice/StoreOnline/default.aspx?orgId=12606&category=1171&item=104690

Thats funny... man those patches look very nice. I wonder if it was hard to think up the design?

:ninja:

 

[Cryozombie]

Guys

Lets remember that agree or disagree with what they are doing, we arent here to bash them.

 

[MrFunnieman]

There's a lot to chew on. I see where everyone is coming from. I am leaning towards Aikido at this point.

As long as we are speculating... maybe his intention was to preserve a connection to BBT? It looks as though his Warrior notebooks and DVDs contain a lot of BBT material.

I would be interested to watch him move, or someone with a deeper depth of understanding in BBT watch him move. If he's got skills, then it might not be that bad. He may have been training for the last 20 years and is now ready to step out of the shadows and teach what he has learned the last two decades :idunno:

:btg:

Mrfunnieman

 

[lalom]

Actually in his defense, I have seen Mr. Maienza move. Of course I am no qualified practitioner, or teacher for that matter, but he does look pretty sharp to me. He also comes out in the various To-Shin Do DVD curriculum by An-Shu Hayes. I remember seeing him demonstrate some hanbojutsu stuff.

On the other hand, I seriously doubt his intention is to preserve his connection to BBT being that he has integrated Aiki Do into his art of Jizaikan. He also seems to have more of an influence of American Jujitsu from looking further into his dojo. In any case, I wish him the best at his new endeavor.

 

[Don Roley]

Don, I saw that he was only a Yondan, but from what I understand he has been studying BBT since the 1980s. I was thinking he lost interest in pursuing rank, but maintained his training?

I know people that stay at certain ranks do to a lack of interest in the matter. But looking at this guys resume he seems to like promoting himself. It does not strike me as the bio of a guy who does not care what others think of him.

The easiest explination for me is that maybe he started training in the 80s, but not as much or as regular as we may think. Seminars and such maybe. And once he gained fourth dan, he never went to Hatsumi and got the fifth dan test.

And if he really cared about ninjutsu, he should be going to the best practicioners of it. That means Hatsumi. He likes the name ninjutsu enough to use it, but not enough to go to the best practicioner I know of. It just does not strike me as the acts of a serious student.

The kamae I saw on that page is one I would not want to be seen doing here in Japan. I have seen worse, but I try to be better.

I would suggest that you go to a straight aikido school and try them out. Them maybe with a few years under your belt of that you might be able to see them with better understanding. You may like him. Or you may like pure aikido better.

 

[Eireannach]

"agree that there are manifold similarities between the physical techniques of the Bujinkan and Aikido"

I keep seeing this on the internet and would love to know what people are talking about.

 

[lalom]

"agree that there are manifold similarities between the physical techniques of the Bujinkan and Aikido"

I keep seeing this on the internet and would love to know what people are talking about.

Probably makes for a new thread.

 

[Aiki Lee]

their founder never even got up to the level of full instrutor in Bujinkan before starting his own style of ninjutsu.

Sorry folks. I have jumped up and down on people calling what Bussey does ninjutsu on this point for too long to change my tune now.

I wish him well in what he does. But I do not think he is all that qualified to even know the difference between dakentaijutsu and ninjutsu.

Listen well. You do not know this man, but I do. I am a student of Jizaikan Aki-Ninjutsu, and before you go continue to talk about something you don't know about let me explain a few things.

Maienza-dono left the Bujinkan, because they seemed to have taken the "ninja" out of ninjutsu. To-Shin-Do kind of did the same thing too.
In order to not seem like serial killers or warlocks to the community, the organizations left out many of the important ninjutsus training methods such as several overlooked koto-ryu scrolls.
Many of the so called "martial artists" in the Bujinkan and To-Shin-do systems demonstrated very poor mastery skills. This does not mean that they are bad systems, just that somewhere someone got lazy and stopped making sure that the quality was good. So, Maienza-dono refused to get further ranking in these systems, because they set almost no standards.

My teacher continued his training, but did not recieve ranking. He knows what he is doing, and Jizaikan Aki-Ninjutsu is the best martial art I have ever taken. It is combat ready. It demands a commitment to excellence.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I know people that stay at certain ranks do to a lack of interest in the matter. But looking at this guys resume he seems to like promoting himself. It does not strike me as the bio of a guy who does not care what others think of him.

The easiest explination for me is that maybe he started training in the 80s, but not as much or as regular as we may think. Seminars and such maybe. And once he gained fourth dan, he never went to Hatsumi and got the fifth dan test.

And if he really cared about ninjutsu, he should be going to the best practicioners of it. That means Hatsumi. He likes the name ninjutsu enough to use it, but not enough to go to the best practicioner I know of. It just does not strike me as the acts of a serious student.

The kamae I saw on that page is one I would not want to be seen doing here in Japan. I have seen worse, but I try to be better.

I.

Let me break down your comments in sections that coordinate to your paragraphs.

1. There must be some promoting, since he makes a living off teaching martial arts. It is not pointless "Hey look how great I am!" promotion. It shows people his credentials, which are outstanding. There is a difference in not careing what people think of you, and wanting people to know that your not some random guy teaching false ninjutsu.

2. Again, you do not know this man. Maienza-dono has trained constantly since the 80s. You do not get seven blackbelts in a martial art by taking time off. And remember that three of those blackbelts are master level. And you make it sound like he was lazy not getting his 5th dan from Hatsumi-dono. Would you pay thousands of dollars to go to a foreign country to get an honorary title that doesn't mean anything?

3. Are you implying here that no one other than Hatsumi-dono can teach ninjutsu? Does that mean anyone who studied under Hayes-dono doesn't know anything about ninjutsu? If you cared to know, Maienza-dono trained under Master Bo Munthe, one of Hatsumi's greatest students. So why reinvent the wheel and go back to the beginning when, you have a perfectly good source to learn from?

4. Ah the Kamae. Remember the pictures are just pictures. You don't sit in a kamae, it is only a momentary thing. Also, since I don't know what kamae you are referring to, you may have stumbled across the Jizaikan forward posture which is a like a modern jumonji no kamae. This is a more practical fighting posture than some of the traditional kamae since we don't live in an ancient feudal world where everyone wears eighty pounds of armor.