New WTF sparring rules

[bignick]

There's a difference between sparring for competition and sparring as part of your normal training. I think that the competition rules make sparring not nearly as useful as it could be in training. Don't get me wrong, i's fun, it's good excersize, but you're only working select techniques that really only apply to very select situations. Sparring should be part of your practice to improve your techniques and reactions, not a competitive thing. It's the focus on competition and working within competition rules that, I believe, has given TKD a bad rep sometimes within the martial arts community. And it's not just us either, judo has a lot of the same problems.

 

[Miles]

My Sabomnim mentioned today that they are going to allow kicks to the back. Any thoughts on that? He was saying that people take advantage of the current rules to use the back defensively

Jay, the rules have allowed for kicking to the back for about 3 years. Only the spinal column is not a scoring area. That is why there is newer style hogu out there.

Competitors will always try to take advantage of the rules....and the newbie referee or judges...

Miles

 

[Miles]

But surely incorporating as much of the art as possible into sparring is more important than just having variety for its own sake.

Scoring is only required for competitions, and there are already many competition models that can be used as a basis.

Adept, if point karate incorporated full-contact kicks and punches, sweeps, throws, elbows, and grappling.... and......if Taekwondo incorporated sweeps, throws, elbows and grappling, ....and if judo incorporated punches, kicks, elbows.....and if muay thai incorporated grappling....wouldn't they all be doing MMA?

I think each of these arts looks at what differentiates it from other arts-these are the core elements and strategies. To maintain their individual identity and to emphasize these core elements, they necessarily limit these other elements out of their sparring.

Taekwondo does have sweeps, throws, elbows, knees-these are practiced in the poomsae.

Miles

 

[TigerWoman]

Taekwondo does have sweeps, throws, elbows, knees-these are practiced in the poomsae.

Also they are practiced in our self-defense, apart from regular sparring.TW

 

[Fortis]

I think this is good news.

As far as sparring goes, I believe it shouldn't be about practicing the sport and scoring points (unless you're training to be an olympic athlete or to compete all the time), but about honing the techniques we learn every day in a controlled, live situation.

 

[Adept]

Adept... if Taekwondo incorporated sweeps, throws, elbows and grappling.... wouldn't they all be doing MMA?

MMA is a term to describe the mixing of martial arts. It also covers a seriesof sporting events. What I would like to see is not the mixing of TKD and anything else, but the utilisation of the full (within reason) spectrum of TKD techniques in commonplace sparring and competitive events. Elbows, knees, sweeps and some grappling are already a part of the TKD syllabus. Why not use them in sparring, especially in large commerical competitive events?

To maintain their individual identity and to emphasize these core elements, they necessarily limit these other elements out of their sparring.

On a personal level I see no value at all in individuality for its own sake. In terms of a martial art, surely both instructors and students should be concentrating on learning the full extent of their art, regardless of what other styles are teaching and learning?

Taekwondo does have sweeps, throws, elbows, knees-these are practiced in the poomsae.

Miles

My wish would be to have them in sparring as well.

 

[Fortis]

I agree with Adept. I feel like TKD is watered down compared to other arts when it comes to sparring and its use of existing techniques. I think it mostly has to do with the competition rules and most schools using those as a guideline.

 

[Blindside]

Hey, do they allow kenpo guys into this forum. j/k

A couple of years ago a local TKD school was having a small tournament, and we were invited. The odd thing was they wouldn't tell us the rules, actually to be fair the head of their organization (franchise/chain) wouldn't tell the local instructor what rules were going to be used (so he wouldn't tell us). So we show up and are told the rules....

Full contact, continuous, no punches to the head, no groin, basically all you can do is hit the hogu. So far we aren't real surprised. One point for hand techs, three points for kicks, and the odd ball two points for a knee.

We asked why we couldn't hit the head, and were told that if we wanted to use the head we would have to snap the head to get a point, but if we knocked the guy out we were going to be DQ'd. Err, ok. So we didn't punch to the head.

Under those rules the tournament turned into a clinch and knee fest. Most of the fighters would just run in, grab the top of the hogu, and start kneeing. NOT pretty, and not really what I would call TKD. While we pretty much cleaned up at the tournament, we were hoping that they would hold the tournament again so that we could actually train for it. If this is what your tournaments would turn into, then I REALLY don't recommend it.

Lamont

 

[headhunter]

I agree with Miles 100%!
p.s Does anyone know how I can make the color of my belt change on my screen?

 

[ajs1976]

p.s Does anyone know how I can make the color of my belt change on my screen?

I think the color if the belt under you name is related to your post count. As you post more, it will change.

 

[TigerWoman]

I agree with Miles 100%!
p.s Does anyone know how I can make the color of my belt change on my screen?

See this thread...it depends on post count.
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1813

Full contact, continuous, no punches to the head, no groin, basically all you can do is hit the hogu. So far we aren't real surprised. One point for hand techs, three points for kicks, and the odd ball two points for a knee

I'm surprised that they didn't kick to the head often. That's most of what we do in TKD. Although light contact to the head, it isn't always that easy to pull it back. We are allowed hand techs to the head just not the face in our tournaments. We wear cage headgear and are also required to wear gloves...some of us can really punch and not all chestgear are equal. We are required to set someone back or show noticeable movement for points. We use back spine protectors on our chestgear too. I think our rules are pretty good. We don't do the knee strikes, why do that when you can do a jump spin sidekick and really push him back. Besides knees are more fragile. TW

 

[Blindside]

These weren't standard WTF rules, the reason they didn't kick was the ruleset.

Yes you could kick me and get three points, but if I close, clinch, and do 5 knee strikes in a row I get 10 points. The ruleset favored the knees. That being said it was rather humorous to have a kenpo school doing more kicking than a TKD school, mostly burying fade-away sidekicks as these guys charged in to clinch. They didn't like that at all.

We are required to set someone back or show noticeable movement for points.

What if they grunt real hard and their face turns pale?

Another thing that worked well is if you did a knee strike just under the armpit where the hogu doesn't have much padding, and works better when you stretch that side out by trapping his arm in the clinch. That guy was listing pretty hard at the end of the round.

Lamont

 

[Marginal]

We don't do the knee strikes, why do that when you can do a jump spin sidekick and really push him back. Besides knees are more fragile. TW

If you're in range for a knee strike, a jump spin side kick would be jammed at that distance.

Any documentation/studies that demonstrate a knee strike is more likely to inflict injury upon the guy delivering the strike?

 

[TigerWoman]

You can gain distance still though to do jump back. Even within arm's range, I can do it. My instructor taught that once and I thought it was pretty nifty.
TW

 

[Blindside]

You do understand what a "clinch" is right?

Otherwise you are claiming you can do a jump spinning side/back kick when someone has you grabbed around the neck/upper body. This I gotta see.

Lamont

 

[bignick]

Different tools are appropriate for different situations, the jump back kick is a very common kick at my school. The distance we train it from is with your guard up and your elbow touching your opponent. Basically, as close as you can get without pressing your whole body against them. Like any other back kick, it is a pretty strong kick, but because you are forced to jump backwards to gain distance, you lose some of the power that other versions of the spinning back kick or spinning side kick generate.

But like Blindside said, from the clinch? I don't think that I would even trust myself (6'5'' 330 lbs.) to break away from someone that has ahold of me to do that kick, the slightest jerk while you're in the air would throw off your balance and dump your neatly onto the ground.

Speaking of, with the competition rules, how often do you work counters to your kick getting grabbed, illegal in competition but a great reality for us high kickers in real life.

I think a lot of our disagreement comes from the two different ways of looking at sparring, a form of competition/sporting event or as a training tool for refining your techniques. Nothing wrong with either one, but they are going to emphasize different things. We spar with WTF rules, no head contact with the hands, period. I'd really like to see things changed to allow more of the art into sparring.

By the way, Blindside, you're more than welcome to stop in here anytime.

 

[Blindside]

By the way, Blindside, you're more than welcome to stop in here anytime.

Thanks Nick!

I'll mostly lurk here, most of my experience is sparring TKD guys rather than training in it, and generally not sparring under their rules to boot....

Lamont

 

[Jim Tindell]

Are these changes into effect now? On the website they just say they are "ready to change" the rules. There's a tournament I'm going to next week, and I'm interested to see if these new rules will be into effect during our sparring.

 

[Miles]

No, the new rules are not in effect in the USA officially yet. However, some tournaments may start utilizing them.

Miles

 

[JanneM]

The new sparring rules are introduced to world as mentioned in the first post except for the gloves. The new rules comes in two sets.

New rules that (should) aply in Madrid are.
3x2min for men
Sudden death extra round

New rules that should aply in 2006 are.
10m by 10m competition are
Fourth corner judge shall be added.

Some other points executive counsil discuss in Lausanne was putting more value on hit points. adding gloves and foot protection. This was included in tlak about the electronic scoresystem. And coloured uniforms.

I think all rules that are now coming untill 2006 are fine and might make the fight bit more interesting to spectators. I also like the fact that punching can score points(as they can now). I dont think we should make it easier, we just need t make sure the referees know how to score punches.
I don't like the iea of electronic scoresystem because it's not reliable at this point. I dont like the extra protections. It kills some of the spirit of the fight. I don't like the idea of coloured uniforms. We allready have fully coloured chest guards and helmets.

(I'm sorry for my English but I'n not a native English speaker)