New Student: when will you quit?

[Flying Crane]

How this relates to the topic: No one wants to learn from and train with people that don't want to beat up Gorillas.

I recently took on a couple of students. Never once has beating up gorillas been mentioned. Not the desire to do so, nor any ability (or lack thereof) to do so. And yet these folks seem to be enjoying the instruction and the training.

So once again you are wrong. People are more than willing to train with people who don’t want to beat up gorillas.

 

[Xue Sheng]

How this relates to the topic: No one wants to learn from and train with people that don't want to beat up Gorillas. If you are unwilling to become the best you are not a true martial artist! One wants to train with the best! Simple.
Worst still is that everyone says it's impossible! No one wants to train for 10 years and still lose to a Gorilla! One must have the Goal, the Spirit and the Essence for True Character, for True Martial Arts to become a True Martial Artist!

You do realize your average Gorilla can bench about 4000 pounds and has enough strength in a strike to shatter the average human skull...and that is not even getting into their big sharp pointy teeth.....so with that in mind why would anyone train with someone who was suicidal....which leads me to believe your view of true martial arts is one needs to be self-destructive and suicidal...... just had to throw that out there...sorry for the interruption...so please carry o n with your ridiculous untrained POV..... it is starting to get comical.....

oh...and I will not be returning to respond to any of your ridiculousness.... I just wanted to throw that out there for the entertainment purposes of others

 

[Tez3]

You do realize your average Gorilla can bench about 4000 pounds and has enough strength in a strike to shatter the average human skull...and that is not even getting into their big sharp pointy teeth.....so with that in mind why would anyone train with someone who was suicidal....which leads me to believe your view of true martial arts is one needs to be self-destructive and suicidal...... just had to throw that out there...sorry for the interruption...so please carry o n with your ridiculous untrained POV..... it is starting to get comical.....

oh...and I will not be returning to respond to any of your ridiculousness.... I just wanted to throw that out there for the entertainment purposes of others

That's a pretty gorgeous beastie though.

Have you see the David Attenborough documentary where he had a gorilla touch him?

 

[Xue Sheng]

That's a pretty gorgeous beastie though.

Have you see the David Attenborough documentary where he had a gorilla touch him?

no I have not

 

[Tez3]

A bit off topic though it has all turned weird. This however is interesting.

Home

You’ll find stories on BBC Future on almost every topic that matters: psychology, food, climate change, health, social trends, technology and more.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Xue Sheng]

A bit off topic though it has all turned weird. This however is interesting.

Home

You’ll find stories on BBC Future on almost every topic that matters: psychology, food, climate change, health, social trends, technology and more.

www.bbc.co.uk

This went off topic many many posts ago, so no worries. And thank you for the link

 

[_Simon_]

I recently took on a couple of students. Never once has beating up gorillas been mentioned. Not the desire to do so, nor any ability (or lack thereof) to do so. And yet these folks seem to be enjoying the instruction and the training.

So once again you are wrong. People are more than willing to train with people who don’t want to beat up gorillas.

(Just a quick: that's awesome a few students have come up @Flying Crane , great to hear )

 

[Deleted member 39746]

You do realize your average Gorilla can bench about 4000 pounds and has enough strength in a strike to shatter the average human skull...and that is not even getting into their big sharp pointy teeth.....so with that in mind why would anyone train with someone who was suicidal....which leads me to believe your view of true martial arts is one needs to be self-destructive and suicidal...... just had to throw that out there...sorry for the interruption...so please carry o n with your ridiculous untrained POV..... it is starting to get comical.....

oh...and I will not be returning to respond to any of your ridiculousness.... I just wanted to throw that out there for the entertainment purposes of others

Which is why if you box one and win, its pretty impressive and is actually something to boast about, its why people fight bulls etc. they tend to choose something where its 50/50 though.

isnt the kyokshin fighter the person who killed like 5 bulls with their hands or something? i dont know much about that one though.

 

[Tez3]

Which is why if you box one and win, its pretty impressive and is actually something to boast about, its why people fight bulls etc. they tend to choose something where its 50/50 though.

isnt the kyokshin fighter the person who killed like 5 bulls with their hands or something? i dont know much about that one though.

Why would you box an animal

As for fighting bulls, that is disgusting. The bull is stabbed with spikes, so they lose blood and are weakened, their horns have the tips blunted, it's cruel and cowardly. Horses are often cruelly injured during the fight which always ends in the bulls death.

Bull running is no different with terrified and stressed when forced to run down streets, often falling and injuring themselves. Afterwards they are put in the bullring.

Only cowards fight animals for entertainment and fun.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Why would you box an animal

As for fighting bulls, that is disgusting. The bull is stabbed with spikes, so they lose blood and are weakened, their horns have the tips blunted, it's cruel and cowardly. Horses are often cruelly injured during the fight which always ends in the bulls death.

Ummm.... no... Bullfights in Spain end with the death of the bull. And, as you say, the bull is crippled before the "fight" starts. Portugese bullfights do not end with death, nor is the bull tortured as a warm up.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Why would you box an animal

As for fighting bulls, that is disgusting. The bull is stabbed with spikes, so they lose blood and are weakened, their horns have the tips blunted, it's cruel and cowardly. Horses are often cruelly injured during the fight which always ends in the bulls death.

Bull running is no different with terrified and stressed when forced to run down streets, often falling and injuring themselves. Afterwards they are put in the bullring.

Only cowards fight animals for entertainment and fun.

Mildly intresting you defaulted to bull running and bull fighting when the original animal was a gorillia and implication was boxing a gorrila. (unfair for the human by a large margin, as established) The tertiary point and example was the Kykoshin founder fought bulls apparntly.

If you can box and win against gorillias consistently, your good against humans.(plus you have unquestionable bragging rights) Also, the rules and regulations can vary drastically, there isnt just one generic "animal sport", by the nature/definition of unoffical and uregulated it means anything can be done, so even if such regulations exsited, ones deviating from them can happen.

i have heard people cite fox hunting (via dogs) as they keep it caged and release it, and i have heard it just mean chasing foxes down on private property, i belive either can happen, and both are "fox hunting". Apart from the literal meaning of "fox hunting" meaning hunting foxes, not in one way. Hell "fox hunting ban" is misleading, as you can still hunt foxes, just not with dogs. A more english example of this.

anyway, im going to dip as this is borderline fuzzy breech of politics rule and i think this will delve into arguing about actual politics now.

 

[Tez3]

Mildly intresting you defaulted to bull running and bull fighting when the original animal was a gorillia and implication was boxing a gorrila. (unfair for the human by a large margin, as established) The tertiary point and example was the Kykoshin founder fought bulls apparntly.

If you can box and win against gorillias consistently, your good against humans.(plus you have unquestionable bragging rights) Also, the rules and regulations can vary drastically, there isnt just one generic "animal sport", by the nature/definition of unoffical and uregulated it means anything can be done, so even if such regulations exsited, ones deviating from them can happen.

i have heard people cite fox hunting (via dogs) as they keep it caged and release it, and i have heard it just mean chasing foxes down on private property, i belive either can happen, and both are "fox hunting". Apart from the literal meaning of "fox hunting" meaning hunting foxes, not in one way. Hell "fox hunting ban" is misleading, as you can still hunt foxes, just not with dogs. A more english example of this.

anyway, im going to dip as this is borderline fuzzy breech of politics rule and i think this will delve into arguing about actual politics now.

Excuse me? I was answering your post you were the one who mentioned bull fighting!

You are being ridiculous when you talk about boxing gorillas.

 

[Tez3]

Ummm.... no... Bullfights in Spain end with the death of the bull. And, as you say, the bull is crippled before the "fight" starts. Portugese bullfights do not end with death, nor is the bull tortured as a warm up.

Portuguese bulls aren't killed in the arena but by a butcher outside, rarely a bull may be given medical treatment and retrieved for another day. They are still stabbed by the spears though.

Bullfighting - Portugal

Portuguese-style bullfights are called touradas or corridas de touros , and it is distinguished by the fact that the main bullfighter 'fights' the bull on a horse. It should not be confused with the...

www.esdaw.eu

 

[Dirty Dog]

Portuguese bulls aren't killed in the arena but by a butcher outside, rarely a bull may be given medical treatment and retrieved for another day. They are still stabbed by the spears though.

Bullfighting - Portugal

Portuguese-style bullfights are called touradas or corridas de touros , and it is distinguished by the fact that the main bullfighter 'fights' the bull on a horse. It should not be confused with the...

www.esdaw.eu

I'm guessing this is a relatively new thing, then. I lived outside Madrid for three years, and saw a number of bullfights in both countries. I do not recall the bull being tortured in Portugal. Taking them to be slaughtered is totally different.

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Excuse me? I was answering your post you were the one who mentioned bull fighting!

You are being ridiculous when you talk about boxing gorillas.

I see two issues here:
One: The bull point, as stated is a tertiary point.
Two: Bull fighting, as in the action of fighting a bull, not "bull fighting" the sport. I dont know why you defaulted to the sport, when the man is japanese, and bull running has nothing to do with this.


I dont recall addressing you here, until the reples. My previous quote of yours, has nothing to do with this(on the nature of gorrilas). I quoted Xue to illistrate the point of the feat of strength boxing a gorrila would have, it obviously is partly hyperbole, then i am replying to your reply to my statements.

Which would have answered your first question "why would you box an animal?". I eleborated to explain that point in the first reply.
This is again of amusmenet how you are focusing on the tertiary point, i only replied to that to illistrate the point there isnt a hive mind or god of animal sports and you must do this that and the other to fight a bull, hunt a fox etc. By the literal definition if you fight a bull you are bull fighting, if you hunt a fox you are fox hunting, to once again bring examples. To again, explain and illistrate my point further.

Now your welcome to your moral opinion of it, but so is everyone else.


Anyway, im not going to waste anymore of my time as you are as usual acting like a petulant child and it was a mistake to even engage with you.

Also, this thread is a clusterfuck and probbly should be closed.

PS, just because its going to annoy the **** out of me: I am not a Zoologist, NEITHER are you. I do not "need" to read any of your book reccomendations on Gorrilas, nor does reading the books make you a Zoologist, or make you a expert on Gorrilas.(nor does it have any bearing on any other animal) What i have, is observations(including sources i have read) of social fighting being present in most if not all animals, to use a loosly defined term and through the lense of a human. It is also 100% pointless to read up or study wildlife thats not native to your area, or present in your area. Unless it becomes a hobby or proffession anyway. Even in the source i skimmed, social fighting is present in gorrilas.

there is absolutely no reason to make the "are you a X" statement unless you are trying to poison the well or bring a chracter attack to bear, which you were.

Also, this point is equally annoying me. YES, animals die in social fighting and kill each other in it. We do it all the time, social fighting just means for social gain, in the literal meaning as applied to animals, Social fighting is fighting over social positions, preadtory is killing for food. Its not "for fun", its for social position. although for sake of argument im not including play fighting as social fighting, and the lines are blurred at times.

I skimmed wiki before i made the statement on the gorillas, and One of the statements i want to highlight:

"The silverback is the centre of the troop's attention, making all the decisions, mediating conflicts, determining the movements of the group, leading the others to feeding sites, and taking responsibility for the safety and well-being of the troop. Younger males subordinate to the silverback, known as blackbacks, may serve as backup protection. Blackbacks are aged between 8 and 12 years"

Robbins MM. (2001) "Variation in the social system of mountain gorillas: the male perspective". In: Robbins MM, Sicotte P, Stewart KJ, editors. Mountain Gorillas: Three Decades of Research at Karisoke. Cambridge (England): Cambridge Univ Pr. pp. 29–58.

The fact there is a caste system means competition over spots will exist, the statement says "thre are internnal conflcits" so social fighting. Unless you cite me something diffrent, its settled. And i mean cite. I didnt think id need to back up a obvious majorty rule like this with any evidence.

If we are going to argue over this further, make a new thread.

 

[Tez3]

I'm guessing this is a relatively new thing, then. I lived outside Madrid for three years, and saw a number of bullfights in both countries. I do not recall the bull being tortured in Portugal. Taking them to be slaughtered is totally different.

Looking up a Portuguese site (pro bull fighting) it says since 1923 when fighting from horseback was revived by Antonio Canera. Other sites say tail and ears cut off before the still alive bull is taken out of the arena. Sadly on those sites there were photographs so now I feel quite sick. The short spears were shown as well being used on both the pro and anti sites.

 

[Tez3]

I see two issues here:
One: The bull point, as stated is a tertiary point.
Two: Bull fighting, as in the action of fighting a bull, not "bull fighting" the sport. I dont know why you defaulted to the sport, when the man is japanese, and bull running has nothing to do with this.


I dont recall addressing you here, until the reples. My previous quote of yours, has nothing to do with this(on the nature of gorrilas). I quoted Xue to illistrate the point of the feat of strength boxing a gorrila would have, it obviously is partly hyperbole, then i am replying to your reply to my statements.

Which would have answered your first question "why would you box an animal?". I eleborated to explain that point in the first reply.
This is again of amusmenet how you are focusing on the tertiary point, i only replied to that to illistrate the point there isnt a hive mind or god of animal sports and you must do this that and the other to fight a bull, hunt a fox etc. By the literal definition if you fight a bull you are bull fighting, if you hunt a fox you are fox hunting, to once again bring examples. To again, explain and illistrate my point further.

Now your welcome to your moral opinion of it, but so is everyone else.


Anyway, im not going to waste anymore of my time as you are as usual acting like a petulant child and it was a mistake to even engage with you.

Also, this thread is a clusterfuck and probbly should be closed.

PS, just because its going to annoy the **** out of me: I am not a Zoologist, NEITHER are you. I do not "need" to read any of your book reccomendations on Gorrilas, nor does reading the books make you a Zoologist, or make you a expert on Gorrilas.(nor does it have any bearing on any other animal) What i have, is observations(including sources i have read) of social fighting being present in most if not all animals, to use a loosly defined term and through the lense of a human. It is also 100% pointless to read up or study wildlife thats not native to your area, or present in your area. Unless it becomes a hobby or proffession anyway. Even in the source i skimmed, social fighting is present in gorrilas.

there is absolutely no reason to make the "are you a X" statement unless you are trying to poison the well or bring a chracter attack to bear, which you were.

Also, this point is equally annoying me. YES, animals die in social fighting and kill each other in it. We do it all the time, social fighting just means for social gain, in the literal meaning as applied to animals, Social fighting is fighting over social positions, preadtory is killing for food. Its not "for fun", its for social position. although for sake of argument im not including play fighting as social fighting, and the lines are blurred at times.

I skimmed wiki before i made the statement on the gorillas, and One of the statements i want to highlight:

"The silverback is the centre of the troop's attention, making all the decisions, mediating conflicts, determining the movements of the group, leading the others to feeding sites, and taking responsibility for the safety and well-being of the troop. Younger males subordinate to the silverback, known as blackbacks, may serve as backup protection. Blackbacks are aged between 8 and 12 years"

Robbins MM. (2001) "Variation in the social system of mountain gorillas: the male perspective". In: Robbins MM, Sicotte P, Stewart KJ, editors. Mountain Gorillas: Three Decades of Research at Karisoke. Cambridge (England): Cambridge Univ Pr. pp. 29–58.

The fact there is a caste system means competition over spots will exist, the statement says "thre are internnal conflcits" so social fighting. Unless you cite me something diffrent, its settled. And i mean cite. I didnt think id need to back up a obvious majorty rule like this with any evidence.

If we are going to argue over this further, make a new thread.

Oh dear.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Which is why if you box one and win, its pretty impressive and is actually something to boast about, its why people fight bulls etc. they tend to choose something where its 50/50 though.

isnt the kyokshin fighter the person who killed like 5 bulls with their hands or something? i dont know much about that one though.

Which is of course highly dependent on the Gorilla putting on the gloves and following the rules....only problem is Gorillas are notorious for not following the rules, and they have a reach advantage too

 

[Deleted member 39746]

Which is of course highly dependent on the Gorilla putting on the gloves and following the rules....only problem is Gorillas are notorious for not following the rules, and they have a reach advantage too

Thats why you get the tiger and the 10 ton weight.

I am now legitimately curious if you can teach a gorillia to box.

 

[Tez3]

Thats why you get the tiger and the 10 ton weight.

I am now legitimately curious if you can teach a gorillia to box.

maybe you could get a gorillia but not a gorilla.