New Aikido invented for self-defence by Ljubomir Vračarević

[Hanzou]

Because Judo is considered a "hard and practical" art in MMA. In the "Karate vs Muay Thai kicks, fan confusion" example, Judo is the Muay thai. People are going to attribute aikido in the cage as Judo simply because it's what they know and think highly of.

So is Bjj. People can still tell the difference between Bjj and Judo, despite them being related styles.

Fans already do it with striking, they'd do the same thing with grappling

Again, if someone popped up on the MMA scene tossing people around with Aikido, no one would be confused about what they do. Aikido throws look quite a bit different than Judo or wrestling throws.

 

[Drose427]

So is Bjj. People can still tell the difference between Bjj and Judo, despite them being related styles.



Again, if someone popped up on the MMA scene tossing people around with Aikido, no one would be confused about what they do. Aikido throws look quite a bit different than Judo or wrestling throws.

Yes BJJ is....you missed the point of the example there....

And Aikido randori at competitions tends ooks a bit like "jittery" Judo. Not to mention both styles use similar takedown and throws.

How much exposure to Aikido have you had? It isn't all just redirections and Steven Seagal movie throws

 

[Hanzou]

Yes BJJ is....you missed the point of the example there....

And Aikido randori at competitions tends ooks a bit like "jittery" Judo. Not to mention both styles use similar takedown and throws.

So why does competition Aikido look so much different than standard Aikido? That should say something shouldn't it?

Additionally;



We don't do takedowns like that.

How much exposure to Aikido have you had? It isn't all just redirections and Steven Seagal movie throws

I took a class in college. Wasn't very impressed, because at the time I was taking Judo.

 

[Drose427]

So why does competition Aikido look so much different than standard Aikido? That should say something shouldn't it?



I took a class in college. Wasn't very impressed, because at the time I was taking Judo.

It isn't overly different, they just focus less on the flipping and tossing..they still use a lot of the same trips, throws, and locks they teach in a normal class.

 

[drop bear]

Aikido always looks great in demos. I wish someone would take Aikido and use it in a MMA/NHB format. That would be a joy to see.

 

[K-man]

Aikido always looks great in demos. I wish someone would take Aikido and use it in a MMA/NHB format. That would be a joy to see.

You would recognise it if you saw it. As usual you are looking at the kihon style training.

Besides, Aikido is pretty distinct from other grappling styles.

Really? In what way? It is incorporated our karate grappling and it is in my Krav. I started training aikido to improve my understanding of karate.

Again, if someone popped up on the MMA scene tossing people around with Aikido, no one would be confused about what they do. Aikido throws look quite a bit different than Judo or wrestling throws.

Interesting. For me Aikido only has one throw and I would probably never use it. It is identical to the comparable throw in judo. The rest are take downs and again similar to many other styles.

So why does competition Aikido look so much different than standard Aikido? That should say something shouldn't it?

Competition Aikido is just that .. competition Aikido. It was never sanctioned by Ueshiba and to me it has no place.

We don't do takedowns like that.

Quite understandable. It took me over seven years to be able to do it against a non compliant person.

I took a class in college. Wasn't very impressed, because at the time I was taking Judo.

Perhaps if you had attended more you may have learned something. Then again, probably not.

 

[moonhill99]

To be honest I've never heard that, I've been to several seminars where Aikido was one of the martial arts there and there was absolutely no 'love and peace' going on rather very efficient techniques which hurt like anything.



Again I've not seen that, they seem to back away when they've dropped the person on the floor unconscious lol otherwise they seem to have interesting ways to hold people on the ground...that hurt too. Perhaps I've just come across more active Aikidoka but I don't think they need to be more aggressive, from what I've seen over the years they do the job very nicely thank you and 'ouch'!

Aikido does have holds,pins,strikes and submission but it seems to be more in way in self-defence than attack.

Some of the Aiki-jūjutsu or jūjutsu schools have more holds, pins, strikes and submission.And used more.

The point of Aikido is it is for self-defence so I think this is where the 'love and peace come from. And Aikido is really big on Buddhism.


Many people criticize Steven Seagal for teaching people and promoting the violent aggressive Aikido.


Also Morihei Ueshiba changed Aikido later on became a softer and more circular.And Striking techniques became less important and the formal curriculum.

 

[Spinedoc]

To be honest I've never heard that, I've been to several seminars where Aikido was one of the martial arts there and there was absolutely no 'love and peace' going on rather very efficient techniques which hurt like anything.



Again I've not seen that, they seem to back away when they've dropped the person on the floor unconscious lol otherwise they seem to have interesting ways to hold people on the ground...that hurt too. Perhaps I've just come across more active Aikidoka but I don't think they need to be more aggressive, from what I've seen over the years they do the job very nicely thank you and 'ouch'!

Yeah, it's not soft and nice. There's some variance by dojo of course, but ours is not. I still have bruises on my chest wall from Monday night's practice of ryokatedori nikyo.

We also don't "back away" but rather submit the person and pin them. The pins look gentle if you watch them…..have someone do one on you. They are anything but gentle. The sankyo pin leaves my hand tingling sometimes for hours. LOL.

 

[Hanzou]

Yeah, even that looks iffy to me. I would need to see Aikido out of its element, going up against a completely different style.

Like this;

Of course Aikido didn't fair well in that exchange.

 

[Spinedoc]

Aikido does have holds,pins,strikes and submission but it seems to be more in way in self-defence than attack.

Some of the Aiki-jūjutsu or jūjutsu schools have more holds, pins, strikes and submission.And used more.

The point of Aikido is it is for self-defence so I think this is where the 'love and peace come from. And Aikido is really big on Buddhism.


Many people criticize Steven Seagal for teaching people and promoting the violent aggressive Aikido.


Also Morihei Ueshiba changed Aikido later on became a softer and more circular.And Striking techniques became less important and the formal curriculum.

All of the jujutsu curriculums, at least the original koryu curriculums were designed for defensive uses only. What did you need to do when you either lost your weapon, or were attacked when you did not have it with you? That was the purpose of jujutsu. Also, Aiki-jujutsu is a relatively recent term, coined by Takeda Sokaku in the early 20th century, there are no records of jujutsu being called "Aiki" before then.

The difference between Aikido and koryu jujutsu was not the defensive intent, but rather how you finished. Both were for defensive purposes, but Aikido has a philosophy of not trying to harm your attacker, while jujutsu was a little more brutal.

Also, both jujutsu and Aikido are both circular. That does not equate to "soft". Some styles have bigger circles, some have smaller circles, some are more linear, some are more circular, but both are circular.

Lastly, the Samurai were all VERY big on Zen Buddhism. Started under the Ashikaga shogunate in the 12th century IIRC, and Zen Buddhism helped the samurai develop bushido and to lose the fear of dying.

Just to clarify here.

Mike

 

[K-man]

Yeah, even that looks iffy to me. I would need to see Aikido out of its element, going up against a completely different style.

Like this;

Of course Aikido didn't fair well in that exchange.

Not surprising it looks iffy. Did you look at the competition rules? No punching, no clinching etc etc.

Why do you keep bagging different styles when they are competing to their rules. Get over it.

And of course another video you have selected to bag a style and make your point. Had you considered that the wrestler was a visitor, pitted against a relatively low skilled grappler. One minute you are suggesting that we should bring in specialist grapplers to help us improve our skills then you bag a school that does it. Unbelievable!

 

[moonhill99]

Yeah, it's not soft and nice. There's some variance by dojo of course, but ours is not. I still have bruises on my chest wall from Monday night's practice of ryokatedori nikyo.

We also don't "back away" but rather submit the person and pin them. The pins look gentle if you watch them…..have someone do one on you. They are anything but gentle. The sankyo pin leaves my hand tingling sometimes for hours. LOL.

Your school does sound different and I have seen clips on youtube getting them on the ground and doing pins, strikes and submission!! But so many of them just put them on the ground and step back when they are on the ground.

This is what I mean by more striking and aggressive fighting.

The jujitsu guy is more aggressive and more striking.

 

[Tez3]

I think the Turkish wrestler had a bit of an advantage in that his opponent unlike his usual ones wasn't covered in oil. I imagine he doesn't often find an opponent he can grip easily.



Seriously though, he was instructing so I don't see how the Aikidoka came off worse, he was being the uke so that the Turkish wrestler could demo his techniques. Wow, did I really actually need to explain that!

 

[Hanzou]

Not surprising it looks iffy. Did you look at the competition rules? No punching, no clinching etc etc.

Why do you keep bagging different styles when they are competing to their rules. Get over it.

Who's bagging it? I'm simply saying that it would be more interesting to see Aikido being utilized against an opponent that isn't doing Aikido. Preferably in a NHB competition.

And of course another video you have selected to bag a style and make your point. Had you considered that the wrestler was a visitor, pitted against a relatively low skilled grappler. One minute you are suggesting that we should bring in specialist grapplers to help us improve our skills then you bag a school that does it. Unbelievable!

I was under the impression that only black belts were permitted to wear Hakamas in Aikido. That would make that Aikidoka a fairly advanced student, would it not?

 

[Xue Sheng]

Year ago I was part of a multi-style sparing group and I was coming from Pre-Olympic TKD and Japanese Jujutsu, but I was learning Chinese martial arts at the time. I had little respect for aikido at that time until I spared a woman aikidoka who came form a local Aikido school..... she slammed me into the floor..it was very cool and I gained a respect for aikido... I guarantee you I was not giving her anything... but I will also admit I spared a couple Aikido people prior to that and they had nothing...but then I do not think the came from the same sensei either... I have sense come across many that were very good

 

[Spinedoc]

I was under the impression that only black belts were permitted to wear Hakamas in Aikido. That would make that Aikidoka a fairly advanced student, would it not?

Depends greatly on the Aikido association. There are no hard and fast rules. ASU (Aikido Schools of Ueshiba) has students wearing Hakama after 6th kyu. USAF (United States Aikido Federation) does not allow it until shodan. I've heard of shihan who want students wearing them quickly to immerse themselves in the tradition of Aikido, and others who are more strict about the Hakama.

I wear one for Iaido, but not for Aikido, as I train in USAF.

Point is, we don't know. The hakama is not necessarily an indicator of rank.

 

[K-man]

. Wow, did I really actually need to explain that!

Yep!

 

[K-man]

Who's bagging it? I'm simply saying that it would be more interesting to see Aikido being utilized against an opponent that isn't doing Aikido. Preferably in a NHB competition.

You bag every other style. Aikido is not a style suited for sport and Tomiki aikido is not typical of Aikido. When you look at the rules of competition you would see why I think it's not particularly useful unless you want to compete with other like minded people. You won't see Aikido in a NHB competition. We don't train for that.

I was under the impression that only black belts were permitted to wear Hakamas in Aikido. That would make that Aikidoka a fairly advanced student, would it not?

Mate, you claim to be a Shodan in your karate. Does that make you an advanced student? Not from your understanding of karate that you have demonstrated here. I have trained with a lot of high ranked Aikidoka and very few of them are at a level where their techniques are effective. Sure they will probably work against untrained people and that is all most people want. That means nothing if that is the training that keeps them fit and makes them happy. For me, I don't train that way and my students keep me honest. If I can't make my techniques work I'm out of business. My Krav guys come from all areas of the MAs. At present they represent karate, Muay Thai, MMA, BJJ and boxing as well as those just off the street. Then, if you came to my aikido class you wouldn't see me in a hakama either. It takes too long to pack away after training. Then again, I make no claims about being an advanced student.

 

[drop bear]

Yeah, even that looks iffy to me. I would need to see Aikido out of its element, going up against a completely different style.

Like this;

Of course Aikido didn't fair well in that exchange.

I am happy with it being trained in a manner where they pull it off when someone is trying to stop them.

 

[drop bear]

I am happy with it being trained in a manner where they pull it off when someone is trying to stop them.

As far as the Turkish wrestler goes. He could have been just better. My coach does that to the majority bjj black belts he encounters his coach demolishes every open grappling tournament he enters. They are sneakily phenomenal grapplers. But both present as these goobers Who look like they have walked off the street.