Never keep a weapon near your bed

[thardey]

When that day comes for you, please let me recommend one of those "quick access" safes. The kind with the hand imprint and combination buttons under the fingers can give you reasonable assurance of keeping unauthorized hands off your SD tool while giving you quick access in case of an emergency.

You're also going to start thinking of things you NEVER thought of before such as "how can I be sure that a round won't over penetrate and enter my child's room?" Then you start looking at exotic ammunition and thinking about filling walls with sand or lining them with kevlar or the like. Both ideas are expensive and/or impractical so you're going to end up concluding that you need to be double sure of what's behind your target and triple sure of shot placement. ...and those exotic ammunitions that previously seemed too expensive to be even a remote consideration start looking a lot less expensive. You still may not buy them but you'll look at them a lot more when you go to the gun store.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

That's where I am, with a silent quick access combination safe about 5 feet from my bed, with the flashlight stored next to it on the outside. I have to be awake enough to focus on the simple combination, but I can access the gun in only a couple of seconds.

For those who are considering getting a tactical light because of this thread, I highly, highly recommend doing a few "practice sweeps" of your house in the dark with both the light and your empty, Empty, EMPTY gun. Practice 'dry-firing' while holding the light.

The reason I say this is because I was warned about "sympathetic hand" syndrome -- where you think you are triggering the light, but you pull the trigger, because that's a more "natural" movement. When you realize how fast that happens, you realize how important it is to KEEP YOUR FINGER OUT OF THE GUARD, and off the trigger until you are sure of your target, and ready to fire.

Also, I find it helps me to keep the light by my head, then there's less sympathy between hands.

 

[Carol]

Keeping a tactical light by the bed is a very good idea, whether you have a weapon there or not.

A couple of weeks ago, I woke up to a loud bang, that sounded kind of like a gunshot. It was close, it was loud, and scared the heck out of me. I couldn't precisely identify the sound because I was dead asleep when it occurred.

A minute or so later, I heard another loud bang. It was close, it was loud, it was....definitely not a gunshot. When the 2nd bang occurred, I lost power. Having my Surefire nearby was a very good thing.

 

[lklawson]

The first time I did a night time sweep of my house (bump in the night that the wife insisted I check out), the back-splash from my tac light completely destroyed my night vision and half blinded me, never mind the random shadows that the "bump" turned out to be.

I learned to keep one eye closed when triggering the "momentary" button. If that "bump" is ever something more than just poltergeist or my house settling, I figure I will open the other eye and get busy just by reflex (it's what happened when I tried it on the range).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[thardey]

The first time I did a night time sweep of my house (bump in the night that the wife insisted I check out), the back-splash from my tac light completely destroyed my night vision and half blinded me, never mind the random shadows that the "bump" turned out to be.

I learned to keep one eye closed when triggering the "momentary" button. If that "bump" is ever something more than just poltergeist or my house settling, I figure I will open the other eye and get busy just by reflex (it's what happened when I tried it on the range).

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

Same thing happened to me. Fortunately, it was during the exercise, so I learned an important lesson.

 

[Flea]

I have one of those "weapons" as well. I'm not good at metric conversion (stupid American that I am). Mine only weighs 10 lbs., more of an intruder alarm than anything else. Definitely sufficient to wake me up and give me plenty of time to get prepared.

For what it's worth, it's relatively easy to train a dog to do regular security rounds at home. Unlike ADT all they ask for is a regular supply of biscuits. Think of it as a nightly fee rather than a monthly fee. :supcool:

If anyone is interested, PM me and I'll tell you how to do it.

 

[MA-Caver]

I agree that having a firearm in condition 3 is probably the best idea. You should have trained/practiced with your weapon often enough to be able to chamber a round, click off the safety and acquire your KNOWN target and fire very quickly.
Practice, practice, and more practice. Even at home with an empty gun (clip out and chamber empty) to practice getting the weapon and chambering, cocking and (dry) firing it ... or find an equivalent airsoft (as close to your actual weapon as possible... oh yeah they make 'em)... and practice with that... having a few dings in the door/door-frame/wall is better than having a few dings on your family member. Family members need to be "trained" that if they're aware of an intruder to call out or to use "safe-words" known by only the family to aid in identifying themselves in a dark house during an intrusion or emergency.
A guard dog is a great "first line" of defense... it gives you a chance to identify the target without any doubts... a well trained dog that is familiar with EVERYONE that is allowed to come into or be already in the house helps prevent any mistakes... however if it's a fireman or LEO then the same dog needs to be obedient/disciplined/trained enough to be able to STOP it's attack, charge when you tell it to. But then I think most LEO's and firefighters know enough to identify themselves aloud to prevent mistaken identies.

One wonders if the additonal use of a laser pointer attached to the weapon (for home defense) along-side the flash light (which IMO should be red or blue lense to aid in YOUR night vison) so that target acquisition is for certain and you don't go wide or though a soft area where the bullet can still travel. ?? Thoughts?

 

[KenpoTex]

I still don't see condition 3 as being a necessary, or even very smart, choice. Aside from the fact that a gun in condition 3 is not ready for immediate use, the sound of a slide cycling may actually "tip your hand."
That said, I guess it's a personal decision. If you're the type of person who is totally "lost" when you wake up, it might make sense to put another step in between you and a fully functioning weapon.
I know that when I am awakened by a strange (i.e. out of the ordinary) noise, I'm instantly wide-awake and on alert. I have no need to keep my pistol un-chambered.

As far as lasers go, they're a great tool. An instructor that I know from another forum (for those who will know what I'm talking about, he works for the Rogers School) has done extensive testing using a timer and a targeting system with very strict time/accuracy standards and has demonstrated very conclusively that a laser can drastically increase speed and accuracy in low-light situations. My only recommendation here would be that if you're going to use a laser, use either one of the Crimson Trace units (built into the grip), or one of the light/laser combos like the TLR-2 like the one in the pic I posted earlier in this thread. Avoid the ones like the LaserMax that put the laser in the recoil spring guide-rod.

Oh, and Caver, it's a mag not a clip (unless you're shooting a Garand)

 

[Carol]

One wonders if the additonal use of a laser pointer attached to the weapon (for home defense) along-side the flash light (which IMO should be red or blue lense to aid in YOUR night vison) so that target acquisition is for certain and you don't go wide or though a soft area where the bullet can still travel. ?? Thoughts?

Nope. Lasers do NOT mean target aquisition is for certain.

 

[Sukerkin]

For what it's worth, it's relatively easy to train a dog to do regular security rounds at home. Unlike ADT all they ask for is a regular supply of biscuits. Think of it as a nightly fee rather than a monthly fee. :supcool:

If anyone is interested, PM me and I'll tell you how to do it.

My Border Collie used to do that of her own accord .

Every night, at regular intervals, she'd get off my bed (she slept at my feet), go to my sisters room and check they were okay, go to my parents room and check they were okay. Then she went downstairs and checked the front and back doors and finally came back to me.

Marvellous dog. I still miss her .

 

[MA-Caver]

My Border Collie used to do that of her own accord .

Every night, at regular intervals, she'd get off my bed (she slept at my feet), go to my sisters room and check they were okay, go to my parents room and check they were okay. Then she went downstairs and checked the front and back doors and finally came back to me.

Marvelous dog. I still miss her .

My family used to own a St. Bernard and she was huge... stood on her hind legs at 6'-4" (taller than me dad who stood at 6-3 and the dog with her paws on his shoulders when she stood...and weighed in at the vet at a nice 215 lbs... she would make nightly rounds and stayed near me mum at night (when my father was working 2nd shift ) until Dad came home then she would invariably end up with either my or my older brother's room, sleeping at the foot of our bed.
One night I got up after midnight and had a sudden need for a glass of chocolate milk... I got up and quietly walked to the kitchen ... there I saw sleeping on the linoleum floor was our dog... hmm red-flags flying everywhere and I tried to wake her up to move... she just HAPPENED to sleep right in front of the fridge. After a few attempts I bent down to shake her awake and found her face inches from mine in full CUJO mode, apparently she took a whiff and realized that it was me and I got a face full of slobber in apology.
I recall going back to bed that night (with glass in hand) realizing that if she didn't recognize my scent... I'd be a faceless wonder. Damned good dog and damn to the person who killed her.

 

[K831]

Not to get off the subject too much but my Akita/German Shepherd mix does the rounds too... couple times a night checks everything out. Same thing when we go camping, first thing she does is determine a perimeter (not sure how she chooses the size) but once she scouts her perimeter, a squirrel isn't even allowed in...

The other two, eh, once in a while - protective for sure, but not as vigilant.

Damned good dog and damn to the person who killed her.

Sorry bout your dog, you know what happend?

I always thought the best lines in the movie "Shooter" was when Bob Lee Swagger says;

"You don't understand how serious this is. They killed my dog."

and

"I don't think you understand - these people killed my dog."

 

[Skpotamus]

I talked about this subject once with a firearms instructor/LEO trainer who had a great quote about it. "The only thing that sounds scarier than you racking your slide in the bedroom, is somebody racking theirs in your living room"

I personally would want the first sound a burglar hears to be my command for them to stop while I have them covered. If they fail to comply, then the next sound I would want them to hear would be the last one they would. I wouldn't want to warn them I'm there and give them time to escalate.

as always, YMMV

 

[SonnyPuzikas]

Originally Posted by zDom
Amen.

As for me, I would rather be a victim because of hesitating than endure the pain of hurting or killing a loved one.
Exactly......more to the point, with proper previous planning, proper target identification shouldn't put one at a tactical disadvantage.

I am concerned about keeping locked and loaded firearms near the bed. If one does choose to keep a firearm near the bed, it should be in Condition 3.......chamber empty, full magazine, hammer down (if hammer applicable) and safety on.

A couple conscious steps in the process should be required before the gun is able to be discharged.

And any gun intended for home defense should have a bright weapon light attached, AND an additional separate hand-held light right next to it so as not to muzzle any ambivalent targets.

Strongly, even violently disagree... If you rather be a victim- think for a minute... Because 99% chance is, that after the BG makes you a victim (50% of it is by your choice, btw), he WILL victimize ALL others in the house. Use your imagination HOW he (them) can do it...

ANY weapon meant to address surprise threats- that is to say you will be in reactive, not pro-active mode- has to be ready NOW. If you think that "just couple seconds" is not a big deal... It's eternity in home invasion, carjacking, or any such situation. Lots of VERY bad things can happen in "just a couple of seconds"...
On lights. While it's OK to have a weapon mounted one, the more sound approach is having a hand held, preferably with momentary switch and at least 90 lumens....And at least 40 hours or so of dedicated training- to understand AND be able to work with backlighting, reflecting, indirect lighting, etc.
Training and preparation gives one a chance. Not dialing down "the risk factor" from the tool (handgun, rifle, etc).

 

[MA-Caver]

Not to get off the subject too much but my Akita/German Shepherd mix does the rounds too... couple times a night checks everything out. Same thing when we go camping, first thing she does is determine a perimeter (not sure how she chooses the size) but once she scouts her perimeter, a squirrel isn't even allowed in...
The other two, eh, once in a while - protective for sure, but not as vigilant.

Sorry bout your dog, you know what happened?

Not really, only that we left her outside in the back yard while the family went out to dinner for a few hours (I was about 11-12 yrs old then) and came back and she was lying dead with a shattered & bloody bamboo bean pole nearby and her nose cut up as if someone had taken the bean-pole and was smacking her about with it. Her death was caused by her jumping up against the choke-chain she had around her neck to get at the whomever was teasing, goading her and possibly asphyxiating or crushed windpipe. Who it was is still a mystery. The Why's are still a mystery as the house wasn't broken into or otherwise disturbed.
All we knew was that a great member of the family was gone. She basically defended her den to the death. Agreed, that it was a bad judgment call on my dad's part to leave her out that way and his choice of restraint for the dog. He regrets that to this day. Says that he rather have cleaned up a pile of poop in the living room (or where-ever) by having the dog inside guarding the house than the result we had when we came home and saw her lying in the yard.

I talked about this subject once with a firearms instructor/LEO trainer who had a great quote about it. "The only thing that sounds scarier than you racking your slide in the bedroom, is somebody racking theirs in your living room"

I personally would want the first sound a burglar hears to be my command for them to stop while I have them covered. If they fail to comply, then the next sound I would want them to hear would be the last one they would. I wouldn't want to warn them I'm there and give them time to escalate.
as always, YMMV

As long as I know there is no recording devices around to document it (and why would there be) ... I wouldn't give a (positively identified unknown/unidentified and uninvited) burglar even that much of a warning. If you're in my house, armed with ill intent and I don't know you and I didn't invite you in... die! I can always tell the investigating police that I did everything I could to get that dead bg out of my house and he came towards me (or a loved one) with malice and ignored all /commands/pleas to stop.
I think the LEO's will be on my side when they write their reports. Besides it'll be my word against the guy whose brains are still being sponged up off the walls by the clean up crew.

Strongly, even violently disagree... If you rather be a victim- think for a minute... Because 99% chance is, that after the BG makes you a victim (50% of it is by your choice, btw), he WILL victimize ALL others in the house. Use your imagination HOW he (them) can do it...

I support the disagreement. You absolutely have no guarantee to know the intent of someone in your home that you didn't invite in. Unless you can read minds and hearts of men you just don't know what they are thinking or feeling or what they're capable of. It's better NOT to find out in many cases.

ANY weapon meant to address surprise threats- that is to say you will be in reactive, not pro-active mode- has to be ready NOW. If you think that "just couple seconds" is not a big deal... It's eternity in home invasion, carjacking, or any such situation. Lots of VERY bad things can happen in "just a couple of seconds"...
On lights. While it's OK to have a weapon mounted one, the more sound approach is having a hand held, preferably with momentary switch and at least 90 lumens....And at least 40 hours or so of dedicated training- to understand AND be able to work with backlighting, reflecting, indirect lighting, etc.
Training and preparation gives one a chance. Not dialing down "the risk factor" from the tool (handgun, rifle, etc).

It's what I said earlier, practice, practice, practice and then practice some more... then just for the hell of it.. practice again.
Walk around your house (with unloaded weapon) and find every place, corner, room, doorway, etc. you can use to your advantage and where you would hide if you were the burglar and know it in the dark. If you or your spouse has a proclivity to re-arrange furniture every now and again then practice knowing it all over again.
For one thing you will have the "home field advantage" over the intruder, they'll be in your domicile for the first time (or second if they've cased it earlier and if they did... they definitely deserve to die).

Maybe it all sounds paranoid... but do you want to take that chance?
It's your home, your sanctuary your retreat against the outside world you have a right to be relaxed and comfortable and have a good night's sleep, every night you're there.

 

[zDom]

SonnyPuzikas: please work on using the quote feature. You lkind of bundled my comment up with some others, didn't ya?

My entire post consisted of:

(responding to Originally Posted by sgtmac_46: Even better advice is identifying your target before putting rounds downrange. That's why a flashlight is vitally important.)

"Amen.

As for me, I would rather be a victim because of hesitating than endure the pain of hurting or killing a loved one."


Your reponse pre-supposes you KNOW it is a bad guy.

(If I KNOW it is a bad guy, in my home, I'm shooting till he is still enough for me to call 911. No hestitation )

All I'm saying is,

I am willing to "risk" taking that extra second or two to POSITIVELY ID what MAY be an intruder before I shoot in MY home,

("FREEZE -- who IS that?")

rather than shooting a dark figure in the kitchen or hallway that is much more likely to be my GF, her sister, or my children.

In my lifetime, I have run across half-sleeping family members a dozen times wandering about in the home for a restroom run or drink of water. Intruders? Zero, so far.


Yea, that extra second of MAKING SURE it is a "bad guy" MAY result in me getting shot — and even being disabled.

But I think "probably not." A real intruder is not going to be as familar and comfortable in the environment as I am. A real intruder likely doesn't practice with his/her firearm as I do (assuming they even HAVE one!).

But weighing the risk (being overcome) vs. the reward (NOT SHOOTING LOVED ONES in my home!!) — I think I stand by my position.

 

[Sukerkin]

A fair point, Dom.

Mind you, I do think that we are perhaps missing a small but important point viz that you (general use of the term) are actually quite likely to be able to identify your close intimates on the slimmest of information.

I'm not putting myself forward as some amazing Master of esoteric arts when I say that I can usually identify someone by how they move or even by the sound of their footfalls. Mind you, that is in large part because I was so short sighted as a child (six inch range of focus) and learned to interpret the world that way :O.

 

[prokarateshop]

100% in agreement.

Ceicei

I think #4 is priceless, ID your target before firing.. This poor man will have to live with this for the rest of his life..

 

[MA-Caver]

A fair point, Dom.

Mind you, I do think that we are perhaps missing a small but important point viz that you (general use of the term) are actually quite likely to be able to identify your close intimates on the slimmest of information.

I'm not putting myself forward as some amazing Master of esoteric arts when I say that I can usually identify someone by how they move or even by the sound of their footfalls. Mind you, that is in large part because I was so short sighted as a child (six inch range of focus) and learned to interpret the world that way :O.

If it is a question of being able to identify someone in the dark or hiding around the corner because they know there's an intruder and that you or someone else is "hunting" them... a good lesson I learned from a LEO friend years ago, was that creating pass codes that ONLY the family knows... (Saving Private Ryan showed a nice example/variation of this... yelling FLASH - response THUNDER! anyone else answering different gonna get killed). At least with that one second to correctly identify each other will at least prevent an in home tragedy.
Justifiable homicide is best when you know it's the right one you shot at.

 

[sgtmac_46]

A fair point, Dom.

Mind you, I do think that we are perhaps missing a small but important point viz that you (general use of the term) are actually quite likely to be able to identify your close intimates on the slimmest of information.

I'm not putting myself forward as some amazing Master of esoteric arts when I say that I can usually identify someone by how they move or even by the sound of their footfalls. Mind you, that is in large part because I was so short sighted as a child (six inch range of focus) and learned to interpret the world that way :O.

That's a pretty fair statement.........when one is alert, it's not asking too much to be able to distinguish a family member walking down hallway........and a troll slinking down the hallway with evil intent.

 

[sgtmac_46]

If it is a question of being able to identify someone in the dark or hiding around the corner because they know there's an intruder and that you or someone else is "hunting" them... a good lesson I learned from a LEO friend years ago, was that creating pass codes that ONLY the family knows... (Saving Private Ryan showed a nice example/variation of this... yelling FLASH - response THUNDER! anyone else answering different gonna get killed). At least with that one second to correctly identify each other will at least prevent an in home tragedy.
Justifiable homicide is best when you know it's the right one you shot at.

Or even if one didn't have that foresight, simply giving a verbal challenge to halt and identify yourself should be sufficient to determine friend from foe......merely presuming the ability to distinguish girlfriend's voice from Tyrone the local gang member.