Necessary Evils: Poll and essay thread

[shesulsa]

Wide open here - and a simple question. Please post whatever you think is a necessary evil (legal or not) in the world and why, e.g. abortion, vivisection, eugenics ... and this is not just limited to the medical field.

Some don't believe in "evil" but understand the gist.

 

[Sukerkin]

I wish it were not so but, sadly, aye, there is a need for necessary evil in the world to prevent worse evil.

The obvious example is World War II. A horrible, horrible, conflict that caused more civilian casualties than military ones and saw a return to war upon the populace rather than between armies. But, if it had not been fought, the evil of the Third Reich would have flourished. The world is in a bad enough state as it is without having the tenets of Nazism running the show.

In more general terms, a necessary evil is the use of force to impose certain limits on the freedom of people to do as they wish when what they wish involves harm to others. It would be lovely if we all lived by the morals that seem innate in many of us but there is a minority that is not 'wired' to cooperate and work for the common good. So, for the benefit of society as a whole, that minority needs to be coerced or at least contained. By any definition, such coercion is certainly not 'good' for those pressured by it but it serves a greater good for the majority. That is a clear case of a lesser evil, or at least a less virulent one, being used to prevent a greater one.

 

[elder999]

Standing armed forces.

Welfare.

Police forces.

Public service announcements.

Equal access.

Workplace sensitivity training: sexual harrassment, etc.....

Traffic laws....hehe....:lfao:

 

[Carol]

Telecom engineers


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[Makalakumu]

"Necessary" evil leads to more excuses.

 

[seasoned]

Necessary evil does come in many different forms.

Someone pushing another person out of the way of an oncoming car. (lesser of two evils).

Sometimes making choices for other people for their own good. (Elderly)
At 89 years old my mom had a heart attack and because of what she told me years before, I made the decision to let her pass. While I talked it over with my sister, my wife was talking to the doctor. While I made the decision with the help of my sister, the doctor asked me what her condition was before the attack, which was a very healthy 89 year old. Decision changed, she is now a healthy 94 year old.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Society is predicated upon control. Control can be seen as a necessary evil.

Elder hit it, but it's bigger than that. All human beings have their wants and needs. These are to some extent restricted, controlled, protected, or provided by participation in society. Participation in society, once established, is not voluntary, it is compulsory.

Because there is no absolute good or absolute evil, they are just human constructions, we live in societies that are always compromises between what the shifting beliefs of those who control that society find to be correct and incorrect behavior, and reflected in the laws of that society. No one group controls all laws, and changes in laws do not always track shifting beliefs quickly; some laws become entrenched, others change more rapidly. The fabric of law, like the fabric of society, is complex and subtle; no one truly understands all of it. In such ways, however, we can say that in any society, there are segments that believe themselves to be oppressed, others that appear to be favored. Laws appear to be excessively restrictive or without value based on current beliefs; all are seen as evil by some. But societies cannot be perfect; so such things always exist.

 

[arnisador]

I pretty much agree with Sukerkin here. Sometimes you have to fight evil with, well, doing what would otherwise be bad things. It sucks, but I don't have a better idea.

 

[Cryozombie]

Lawyers.

 

[pgsmith]

Lawyers.

Don't know that I agree to them being necessary.

 

[Tgace]

Necessary or otherwise, its still evil. And that's definition enough for me. I believe in the golden rule principle...if it would be evil if it happened to you or one you loved its evil to do to another.

"None of us know our end, really, or what hand will guide us there. A king may move a man, a father may claim a son, but that man can also move himself, and only then does that man truly begin his own game. Remember that howsoever you are played or by whom, your soul is in your keeping alone, even though those who presume to play you be kings or men of power. When you stand before God, you cannot say, "But I was told by others to do thus," or that virtue was not convenient at the time. This will not suffice. Remember that." -King Baldwin, Kingdom of Heaven

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[Sensei_Dez]

"Necessary" evil leads to more excuses.

there are always excuses, more won't change a thing, but are very few solutions, sometimes a "Necessary evil" can help where a true solution is impossible

 

[Makalakumu]

there are always excuses, more won't change a thing, but are very few solutions, sometimes a "Necessary evil" can help where a true solution is impossible

Most of the time people make excuses to do evil because they want to do something evil.

 

[Makalakumu]

Society is predicated upon control.

Who gets to control you? Hopefully good people?

Control can be seen as a necessary evil.

If you control yourself, within basic moral constraints like the non aggression principle and self ownership, are you still evil?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Who gets to control you? Hopefully good people?

The same people who control you. Good, bad, it really doesn't matter. It's all control. Some we are glad is there, some we don't care for, but that's how it goes.

If you control yourself, within basic moral constraints like the non aggression principle and self ownership, are you still evil?

Evil is a label. It does not exist outside our minds, and each of us has a different notion of what it is.

 

[arnisador]

If you control yourself, within basic moral constraints like the non aggression principle and self ownership, are you still evil?

If everyone did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But I have to live in the real world...or as Woody Allen put it: "Sure, reality sucks, but it's still the only place you can get a really good steak."

 

[Tgace]

Definitions of evil vary, as does the analysis of its root motives and causes; however, I found a definition that pretty much covers the issue:

"evil is commonly associated with conscious and deliberate wrongdoing, discrimination designed to harm others, humiliation of people designed to diminish their psychological well-being and dignity, destructiveness, motives of causing pain or suffering for selfish or malicious intentions, and acts of unnecessary or indiscriminate violence."

If you don't know evil when you see it, I think you are over rationalizing.

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[Makalakumu]

If everyone did, we wouldn't be having this conversation. But I have to live in the real world...or as Woody Allen put it: "Sure, reality sucks, but it's still the only place you can get a really good steak."

If that is the case, why do we even try to make society better?

 

[Makalakumu]

The same people who control you. Good, bad, it really doesn't matter. It's all control. Some we are glad is there, some we don't care for, but that's how it goes.

If evil people controlled society and an individual went along, what does that say about that person?

Evil is a label. It does not exist outside our minds, and each of us has a different notion of what it is.

How do you define evil? What would you excuse that met that definition?

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If evil people controlled society and an individual went along, what does that say about that person?

Evil is defined by people. People do not define themselves as evil. Ergo, this does not happen.

Did the people who lived in societies that practiced human sacrifice consider themselves evil? No. Would we consider human sacrifice evil? Yes.

How do you define evil? What would you excuse that met that definition?

If I did, I'd be promptly tossed off of MT for good, so I will refrain. Suffice to say, the society that I live in permits some behavior which I consider evil. Most do not agree with me. Therefore, I obey the law and put up with it. As do you. We just have different definitions of evil.