My TKD is not only kicks

[Manny]

Well MY TKD is not only kicks, I have incorporate to my TKD some techs that are inside clasic TKD and some other techs form another MA, so my TKD has kicks,punches,hand techs,locks,trows,take downs,elbows,knees, not so many but what works for me.

Because of this I feel my TKD is not so sporty, I know my limitations and my strengths so I have adapted and in some cases developed my own techs.

When I see the young people that only know kicks in the dojang I always try to show them TKD is not only kicks and most of the cases I catch them of guard because they espect a kick.

It's always refresing to me when the kids open wide their eyes and say... WOW Mr.Manny I didn't know TKD was that!! can you show me more!!

I am not the fanciest kicker in town, I am not the strongest, not the quikest but if I got you then be prepared.

Manny

 

[dianhsuhe]

Hi again Manny San!

I actually started in TKD and I never thought TKD was just kicks, at least not at my school because my teacher taught hand techniques and knew at least a couple of throws/takedowns.

These days TKD IS almost completely kicking. That is not a bad thing but as a sincere student one might want to cross-train with something using the hands if their instructor does not teach it.

It irritates me that people assume Korean arts are just kicks when there is TKD, Tang Soo Do, Hapkido, Hwa-Rang-Do and Kuk-Sool-Won. Many of these arts are well rounded to go along with the incredible kicking techniques Korea is famous for!

Having said all of this- You will probably spend more time defending your art to others than almost any other type of martial art, save for maybe Ninjitsu (Budo Taijutsu). That is just the way it is-

If someone asked me if TKD (in general) was good for self-defense compared with other arts I would have to tell them no.

Manny do you take TKD for self defense, fitness, fun?

 

[Manny]

Hi again Manny San!

I actually started in TKD and I never thought TKD was just kicks, at least not at my school because my teacher taught hand techniques and knew at least a couple of throws/takedowns.

These days TKD IS almost completely kicking. That is not a bad thing but as a sincere student one might want to cross-train with something using the hands if their instructor does not teach it.

It irritates me that people assume Korean arts are just kicks when there is TKD, Tang Soo Do, Hapkido, Hwa-Rang-Do and Kuk-Sool-Won. Many of these arts are well rounded to go along with the incredible kicking techniques Korea is famous for!

Having said all of this- You will probably spend more time defending your art to others than almost any other type of martial art, save for maybe Ninjitsu (Budo Taijutsu). That is just the way it is-

If someone asked me if TKD (in general) was good for self-defense compared with other arts I would have to tell them no.

Manny do you take TKD for self defense, fitness, fun?

I am laerning Kenpo to enhance mi TKD or to enhance my SD techs.

Why do you think TKD is not good for SD compared with other MA?

I take TKD lessons/training cuse I love it and because SD, fun and fitness is secondary.

Saludos.

Manny

 

[dianhsuhe]

I am laerning Kenpo to enhance mi TKD or to enhance my SD techs.

Why do you think TKD is not good for SD compared with other MA?

I take TKD lessons/training cuse I love it and because SD, fun and fitness is secondary.

Saludos.

Manny

Kenpo/Kempo is a good art to cross-train since there are a lot of hand techniques t9o complement the devastating kicks of TKD. (what Kenpo style do you study?)

I just typed a long response to the "Why not TKD for self defense compared with other arts" but deleted it. Instead I will just say that IN MY OPINION it is simply not well rounded enough to work well on the streets for the average person, from the average school. (Start flaming me now)

Good luck!

 

[Dirty Dog]

Tae Kwon Do has never been "only kicks", unless you're totally focused on WTF/Olympic sparring. Kwan Jael Sul, Too Sul and Hyel Do Sul are all part of Tae Kwon Do.

 

[ralphmcpherson]

Kenpo/Kempo is a good art to cross-train since there are a lot of hand techniques t9o complement the devastating kicks of TKD. (what Kenpo style do you study?)

I just typed a long response to the "Why not TKD for self defense compared with other arts" but deleted it. Instead I will just say that IN MY OPINION it is simply not well rounded enough to work well on the streets for the average person, from the average school. (Start flaming me now)

Good luck!

When I hear people say that tkd is "not well rounded enough" , I find it more a reflection on their school rather than tkd the art. In my opinion , if tkd is taught properly it is very well rounded and its just a shame that schools who only teach 'part' of the full tkd curriculum give the legit schools a bad name.

 

[l_uk3y]

I'm not convinced it isn't a good SD system. Although I don't train TKD, I do train alongside it. (Hapkido and TKD same teacher during the same time slot).

The only thing that may stop it being good for SD is being taught and learnt with a competition mindset. If you train it to be fast, brutal and accurate to soft targets then you have plenty of weapons to win with.

Although very generalized, there's a weakness in close. So being grabbed is a worry. But there are lots of simple techniques that can be added for the sake of SD.

TKD (with a SD focus to its strikes) with a few finger strikes and grapple defense for the sake of having close range defense and attack options. I'd like to know why it won't work???

 

[seasoned]

As with any Martial Art used for self defense, it needs to cover all ranges of distance. But, bottom line is, once your kicked in the head, no one is going to say, hey, you were to far away, while your looking around for your noggin.

 

[JWLuiza]

Danger: I'll be using the word "most" here to cover the TKD people who this doesn't apply to....

Most acts of violence will generally begin just inside that head kicking distance range. If most of your training is at that range, you're not going to be as well prepared.

This is a problem in MANY TMAs not just some TKD schools.

In my vernacular (and in the realm of logic and math! ) most = 50% +1. I think that is fair because of the preponderance of Olympic oriented schools and TKD McDojos. I'd be willing to downgrade my "mosts" to "some" (some = at least 1) with proper data to back up your position.

 

[JWLuiza]

As with any Martial Art used for self defense, it needs to cover all ranges of distance. But, bottom line is, once your kicked in the head, no one is going to say, hey, you were to far away, while your looking around for your noggin.

I've definitely seen head kick KOs in MMA and Kyokukshinkai bouts. Wonder what the success rate and availability of head kick shots are in an SD scenario.

 

[chrispillertkd]

These days TKD IS almost completely kicking.

Well, no. You're making a very similar mistake that I think Manny might be making; taking your personal experience and generalizing it too much. WTF sport Taekwondo is basically kicking, period. When I trained at a WTF-style club in college the instructor, who was a Korean national and an international referee made the point of telling us more than once that in all his years of reffing (which included many international competitions) he'd only seen six punches scored for points.

But the fact of the matter is that WTF Taekwondo is geared to the Olympics and so many schools just do Olympic style sparring (even those who aren't sending elite atheletes to team trials or WC's which is odd but that's another topic entirely).

Other TKD orgs such as the ITF have international tournaments but their rule set actually encourages hand techniques, not just kicking. It's a matter of recognizing that there is a wider world out there besides the WTF. There are plenty of Kukkiwon certified instructors who would disagree with your statement, too, I think.

That is not a bad thing but as a sincere student one might want to cross-train with something using the hands if their instructor does not teach it.

And yet, absolutely speaking, it's not necessary since TKD has many hand techniques, including many for close range fighting (and that doesn't include elbow strikes or kicking with the knee, I mean actual punches and strikes with the hand).

Crossing training can be good as long as one already has a firm foundation in their core style, of course, but what you are talking about only demonstrates a shortcoming in the training one receives, not in the style in which they train.

It irritates me that people assume Korean arts are just kicks when there is TKD, Tang Soo Do, Hapkido, Hwa-Rang-Do and Kuk-Sool-Won. Many of these arts are well rounded to go along with the incredible kicking techniques Korea is famous for!

I agree with this sentiment whole heartedly. Conversely, however, it irritates me when people say Taekwon-Do is just kicks!

If someone asked me if TKD (in general) was good for self-defense compared with other arts I would have to tell them no.

That's too bad as, from my personal experience, I'd definitely tell them yes. Very effective.

Pax,

Chris

 

[chrispillertkd]

Danger: I'll be using the word "most" here to cover the TKD people who this doesn't apply to....

Most acts of violence will generally begin just inside that head kicking distance range. If most of your training is at that range, you're not going to be as well prepared.

This is a problem in MANY TMAs not just some TKD schools.

Which may or may not be true but, regardless, it's good to keep in mind the importance of actually being able to control distance when in a confrontation. That means being able to not just close the gap but also to create distance through footwork and angle. An advanced practitioner of any art should be proficient at being able to keep an opponent just out of range and then closing quickly as well as being able to increase the distance between himself and his opponent when needed.

Pax,

Chris

 

[JWLuiza]

I agree with everything you said. And I think we should talk about it over a beer in Oakland or Squirrel Hill some time...

 

[StudentCarl]

if I got you then be prepared.
Manny

Manny, to me this is the value of sparring and of testing different skills to find what works for you.

As instructors we have two important jobs: one is to teach our art, and the other is to get students to learn to make the techniques work. The goal is to get the other person without them getting you.

Keep up the good teaching!

Carl

 

[chrispillertkd]

I agree with everything you said. And I think we should talk about it over a beer in Oakland or Squirrel Hill some time...

It's too bad Winner's Fast Food is out of business. We could drink the beer over some Korean food! (They did have the best name of a Korean restaurant I've ever heard, too LOL)

Jimmy Tsang's still has some pretty good Korean on their menu. You ever get over there?

Pax,

Chris

 

[dianhsuhe]

My intent was not to come into a TKD forum and state "blanket" that the style is not effective.

My assertions are based simply on my experience in the martial arts.

Your mileage may vary...

 

[JWLuiza]

Never got out there. Mostly I'm hitting stuff on Craig Street after going to Phantom of the Attic.

<--Geek

 

[Dirty Dog]

Danger: I'll be using the word "most" here to cover the TKD people who this doesn't apply to....

Most acts of violence will generally begin just inside that head kicking distance range. If most of your training is at that range, you're not going to be as well prepared.

This is a problem in MANY TMAs not just some TKD schools.

There are two misconceptions in your statement. The first is that kicks are only usable or effective at long range. This is simply not true. I can kick at longer range than I can punch, certainly. But I can kick at punch distance too, if I choose. Moving in close ADDS options; it does not remove them.

The second misconception is that violence "begins" close. Speaking as someone who faces violence on a regular basis, I have to say this is simply not true. Allowing an aggressor to get close requires you to totally miss or ignore the warning signs. I cannot say I have EVER seen anybody simply walk up and attack another person without giving some sign first. Part of my training (and I assume yours as well) is recognising these (sometimes subtle) signs and, if the situation cannot be avoided, controlling it. That includes controlling how close I allow the other person to get to me.

The difference between art A and art B is rarely (if ever) one of effectiveness. It's a difference in emphasis. Hapkido stresses redirection, joint locks, tosses... but certainly includes strikes. Tae Kwon Do stresses powerful strikes... but Kwan Jyel Sul (joint locks), Too Sul (throws) and Hyel Do Sul (pressure points) are certainly included. How effective either art is in a given situation depends upon the practitioner.

 

[JWLuiza]

There are two misconceptions in your statement. The first is that kicks are only usable or effective at long range. This is simply not true. I can kick at longer range than I can punch, certainly. But I can kick at punch distance too, if I choose. Moving in close ADDS options; it does not remove them.

I was saying some TKD training only practices kicking at medium to long range. And I restricted my comment to head kicks. Being a bunkai-driven guy I love kicks at short range and to the knees. And I was also talking about what you train doing. If you train WTF style sparring all the time, you aren't going to have a direct carry over to a short-range encounter.

The second misconception is that violence "begins" close. Speaking as someone who faces violence on a regular basis, I have to say this is simply not true. Allowing an aggressor to get close requires you to totally miss or ignore the warning signs. I cannot say I have EVER seen anybody simply walk up and attack another person without giving some sign first. Part of my training (and I assume yours as well) is recognising these (sometimes subtle) signs and, if the situation cannot be avoided, controlling it. That includes controlling how close I allow the other person to get to me.

Often times violence does start close. If I ever get attacked, it won't be from the front at long range. At 6'7" and 235lbs I'm more likely to get a sucker punch or a bum rush. I'm also more likely to face someone with more experience if I DO get attacked.

The difference between art A and art B is rarely (if ever) one of effectiveness. It's a difference in emphasis. Hapkido stresses redirection, joint locks, tosses... but certainly includes strikes. Tae Kwon Do stresses powerful strikes... but Kwan Jyel Sul (joint locks), Too Sul (throws) and Hyel Do Sul (pressure points) are certainly included. How effective either art is in a given situation depends upon the practitioner.

 

[Manny]

Kenpo/Kempo is a good art to cross-train since there are a lot of hand techniques t9o complement the devastating kicks of TKD. (what Kenpo style do you study?)

I just typed a long response to the "Why not TKD for self defense compared with other arts" but deleted it. Instead I will just say that IN MY OPINION it is simply not well rounded enough to work well on the streets for the average person, from the average school. (Start flaming me now)

Good luck!

American Kenpo by Ed Parker is what I am lerning since last july.

Manny