Until he cleans up the stances and guard, a plan is, too little too late.
My Sparring Vid
- Thread starter DanT
- Start date
As others have mentioned, let your feet take you to striking range. Don't over-reach or lean.
Don't leave your arm extended at the end of a punch for no good reason. That opens you up to all kinds of nasty counters.
Don't look down at the floor. That makes you vulnerable to a lot of things and also takes away your ability to launch any sort of solid WC based attack.
Several times as you punched with your left hand, you pulled your right arm way back behind you. Not a good idea in Wing Chun. (There are some systems which make use of that kind of motion, but even for those you have to be careful about when and how you apply it.)
You keep retreating and making space unnecessarily. Wing Chun is a close range system based on forward pressure. A couple of times you manage to cut angles when your opponent attacks instead of running away. Do more of that.
On your front kicks, you are raising up and leaning back slightly, which telegraphs your kicks, hurts your stability, and makes it harder to follow up with punches quickly. There is a time and place for leaning back in some systems, but it doesn't work so well with the WC paradigm.
On your round kicks you are dropping your arm as you kick. We do that deliberately in Muay Thai, but it ties in to the rest of the body dynamics of MT. Without those body dynamics it opens you up to counters. Is that something your instructor teaches you in your lineage?
It looks like you are throwing hammer fists as much as or more than actual straight punches. There's a time and place for hammer fists, but you have to pick your moments
I don't know what version of the WC stance your lineage teaches, but if you can establish that stance and work to keep it consistently while you are sparring it will make it easier to make all the rest of your WC work effectively.
Hope that is helpful. Good to see WC people sparring. Next step is to clean it up to be more WC.
Don't leave your arm extended at the end of a punch for no good reason. That opens you up to all kinds of nasty counters.
Don't look down at the floor. That makes you vulnerable to a lot of things and also takes away your ability to launch any sort of solid WC based attack.
Several times as you punched with your left hand, you pulled your right arm way back behind you. Not a good idea in Wing Chun. (There are some systems which make use of that kind of motion, but even for those you have to be careful about when and how you apply it.)
You keep retreating and making space unnecessarily. Wing Chun is a close range system based on forward pressure. A couple of times you manage to cut angles when your opponent attacks instead of running away. Do more of that.
On your front kicks, you are raising up and leaning back slightly, which telegraphs your kicks, hurts your stability, and makes it harder to follow up with punches quickly. There is a time and place for leaning back in some systems, but it doesn't work so well with the WC paradigm.
On your round kicks you are dropping your arm as you kick. We do that deliberately in Muay Thai, but it ties in to the rest of the body dynamics of MT. Without those body dynamics it opens you up to counters. Is that something your instructor teaches you in your lineage?
It looks like you are throwing hammer fists as much as or more than actual straight punches. There's a time and place for hammer fists, but you have to pick your moments
I don't know what version of the WC stance your lineage teaches, but if you can establish that stance and work to keep it consistently while you are sparring it will make it easier to make all the rest of your WC work effectively.
Hope that is helpful. Good to see WC people sparring. Next step is to clean it up to be more WC.
I am one of the least Wing Chun-iest people on MT, but I've been paying attention to some of the principles folks are pointing to, and Tony has hit on something I thought I saw in this, but was waiting to hear from someone with a bit better understanding of WC. Your arms don't seem to be fully integrating to your body the way I've seen WC folks working. They are separating from your movement (shoulders moving off hips into over-extension, etc.), so your strikes are un-integrated. I think this contributes to many of the issues Tony notes. If I'm right that these are related in this way, addressing this connection between body and arms in dynamic use will improve all of these (probably not fix them completely, but remove the root cause).
WC folks, please feel free to correct this if that's not the issue.
I don't do Wing Chun, but we did Wang Chun our Kenpo, and the trick is to lead with the elbow, up the center. Like you are shooting hoops, or dialing a telephone.
You are absolutely correct. I should note that this also relates to the issue several of us noted about using footwork to get into the correct range for striking and maintaining proper stance. The way WC integrates the strikes with the body movement requires correct range and correct posture.
that's true. That's why I had difficulty with knowing what system he was trying to use. His stance appeared to be more reactive and not deliberate. They both did a good job with control and sparring speed. They can make mistakes without worrying about being knocked out because of the mistake.
Your statements apply to martial arts in general. It's not a WC only concept. WC probably highlights it more as the style has little to no opportunity for "wind up" movements. This "integration" is required in long fist systems, but there is a little more forgiveness if everything isn't connected.
Danny T
Senior Master
There are several areas of concern.
I believe most are driven by tension which come from not wanting to get hit.
Therefore most will be corrected by:
1. Relaxing. This will happen as you become accustomed to getting hit and truly accept getting hit. The mind will calm down, your defensive skills will increase, and your offensive skills will take over. Range will stop being a concern as you will be willing to work in the proper range for your stance and striking attacks. The over committing and leaning in will be controlled by being in the proper range as well.
2. Drill vs hard committed attacks by your training partner. Get used to having to drill under pressure driven attacks.
3. Don't attempt to correct everything at the same time. Pick one and work on correcting that then correct the others.
Accept getting hit and relaxing will make the others simple to correct.
I believe most are driven by tension which come from not wanting to get hit.
Therefore most will be corrected by:
1. Relaxing. This will happen as you become accustomed to getting hit and truly accept getting hit. The mind will calm down, your defensive skills will increase, and your offensive skills will take over. Range will stop being a concern as you will be willing to work in the proper range for your stance and striking attacks. The over committing and leaning in will be controlled by being in the proper range as well.
2. Drill vs hard committed attacks by your training partner. Get used to having to drill under pressure driven attacks.
3. Don't attempt to correct everything at the same time. Pick one and work on correcting that then correct the others.
Accept getting hit and relaxing will make the others simple to correct.
mograph
Master of Arts
Good on you for putting yourself out there!
I have no feedback for you, but I have one thing for the person who shot the video: the phone should be turned sideways, to give a landscape (not portrait) format. Not only is this better for YouTube and so on, but it better allows the shooter to cover the times when the fighters move around and spread apart.
(I edit video and motion graphics for a living.)
I have no feedback for you, but I have one thing for the person who shot the video: the phone should be turned sideways, to give a landscape (not portrait) format. Not only is this better for YouTube and so on, but it better allows the shooter to cover the times when the fighters move around and spread apart.
(I edit video and motion graphics for a living.)
yes. I don't know why so many people use portrait over landscape view when taking video. It drives me nuts. Lol
They didn't have the benefit of your hour of training.
I failed to mention that, but it's what sent me down that path. Leaning in often comes from using the top section of the body (shoulders and up) apart from the hips. Once I started looking at that and the other comments, it seemed likely they were all tied to the same issue.
All styles seem to have some sort of integration between arms and body. I was specifically looking to see the integration I tend to see in experienced WC folks, and it wasn't there. There are some CMA systems whose integration escapes me - it looks like stiffness to my eyes - but WC seems to make sense to me, though the actual moves are not similar to what I train.
I think people just look to see which looks biggest on the phone (and that would be portrait during most of the sparring). They forget that the video will be forced within a landscape frame, so portrait actually ends up being smaller.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Because wing chun is technically about what we call the turn off. Or the pivot as a defensive movement anyway. Just have to combine that with tha backwards stepping.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Yeah. You have to use your defensive system to mitigate strikes.
Running away via the head mostly does mot work.
Your eyes aren't lying to you. If it looks this way to you then something is off. Regardless of the system nothing should look stiff. So when you see a CMA system "doing the robot" then you can say with certainty that they are doing something wrong.
It's not really that "robot" effect I'm talking about. It's...something. I've never been able to put my finger on it. I see it in some of the Jow Ga you have posted - the larger movements. I see that same thing a lot in some of the videos that Kung Fu Wang posts, where they are doing larger movements. My eyes read it as stiffness (perhaps around the shoulders or upper back), but the speed and/or balance of the movement tells me it isn't. I can't recall having seen it in smaller movements, though I do recall seeing it even in some WC forms (though there it may actually be stiffness, since I only see it in some people).
anerlich
Brown Belt
IMO, both of you are overreaching rather than getting into proper hitting range. That leads to you overextending and leaving openings.
You are both too back and forth linear, especially in defence. Several times you got overwhelmed and turned your head away to avoid strikes.
Wing Chun guys, for reasons I don't quite understand, seem to want to pride themselves on close in defence, but I personally find peekaboo / shell style coverups are way more effective defense close in, than are trying to pak and larp and bon and garn everything, especially with gloves. You get hit, but it's all on the gloves and forearms. Elbows cover the middle gates. This leaves you in a much better position to counterstrike or clinch. Just my opinion.
A few negative points. Performing under pressure is hard, criticism too easy.
But I give you +1000 for having a go and putting up the clip. Keep training, keep sparring, you will get better and better.
You are both too back and forth linear, especially in defence. Several times you got overwhelmed and turned your head away to avoid strikes.
Wing Chun guys, for reasons I don't quite understand, seem to want to pride themselves on close in defence, but I personally find peekaboo / shell style coverups are way more effective defense close in, than are trying to pak and larp and bon and garn everything, especially with gloves. You get hit, but it's all on the gloves and forearms. Elbows cover the middle gates. This leaves you in a much better position to counterstrike or clinch. Just my opinion.
A few negative points. Performing under pressure is hard, criticism too easy.
But I give you +1000 for having a go and putting up the clip. Keep training, keep sparring, you will get better and better.
It might be me. My shoulders are too tense or it could be that in the videos that you see I'm holding back on the technique. If this video looks stiff then it's my shoulders and my difficulty in relaxing the upper part of my body
