My First Praying Mantis Class

[mantis]

Cool. Thanks. I take it you are studying Northern Mantis like Adam? How long have you been training? I would be interested in the differences too. I'll keep you posted as I learn more. It should make for an interesting discussion. :asian:

Yes, in fact Adam and I both belong to the same northern mantis so he is my older kung fu brother (si hing).
I looked up southern mantis and I found contradicting information on it. Some say it is not related to northern mantis at all, and some say it came from the north when some monks migrated to the south. Anyway so far the high level characteristics are the same. but i would be interested in comparing the 'principles', and to see if you guys share the same keywords passed from 'wang lang' (the guy who invented mantis in shandong province)

 

[Xue Sheng]

Yes, in fact Adam and I both belong to the same northern mantis so he is my older kung fu brother (si hing).
I looked up southern mantis and I found contradicting information on it. Some say it is not related to northern mantis at all, and some say it came from the north when some monks migrated to the south. Anyway so far the high level characteristics are the same. but i would be interested in comparing the 'principles', and to see if you guys share the same keywords passed from 'wang lang' (the guy who invented mantis in shandong province)

I have seen Northern mantis forms and I have seen Southern mantis forms as well (and from personal experience Southern mantis forms are much more painful to watch

). The only real difference I saw, in the forms, was it appeared that Northern mantis stances were a little lower and the strike range seemed longer where Southern stayed higher and the strikes seemed to be a bit closer. This however did not appear to phase the guy I spared, he beat the living daylights out of me... it was so cool.

One thing about Southern that amazed was that I was able to take him down, but that was not necessarily a good thing. the flurry of punches and kicks that came from the ground at me was absolutely amazing. I was much happier if he was standing up… or at least until I got hit again..

 

[mantis]

Yes i hear northern styles in general tend to have very low stances especially in forms.
in what way southern mantis forms are more painful to watch? which norther styles have you seen?

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Glad it's working out for you!!!
artyon:
artyon:
artyon:

 

[Jade Tigress]

Yes, in fact Adam and I both belong to the same northern mantis so he is my older kung fu brother (si hing).
I looked up southern mantis and I found contradicting information on it. Some say it is not related to northern mantis at all, and some say it came from the north when some monks migrated to the south. Anyway so far the high level characteristics are the same. but i would be interested in comparing the 'principles', and to see if you guys share the same keywords passed from 'wang lang' (the guy who invented mantis in shandong province)

I didn't know you and Adam trained together. That's cool.

You know, I looked up southern mantis too...I also saw that it said it is not related to northern mantis at all. I haven't read too much more on it yet. . I'd be interested in some of the other links you found because I didn't find anything yet that said it came from the north, though that migration would seem logical.

Keywords...I have soooo much to learn. I don't understand any of the terms yet that my Sifu uses in class. What do you mean by keywords? Would that be the Chinese term for a specific technique? (I'm deducing that by the keywords thread in the Northern Styles forum).

It is my understanding that northern and southern dialects are different. For example, the Sil Lum I studied was a southern Shaolin. Sil Lum = southern dialect, Cantonese, and Shaolin = northern dialect, Mandarin.

I'm just making assumptions here. I'm guessing if keywords are chinese terms then there would be a difference in the term for similar techniques? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm thinking out loud and trying to learn. I want all the info I can get to help me better understand this system I am dedicating myself to.

Thank you. :asian:

The only real difference I saw, in the forms, was it appeared that Northern mantis stances were a little lower and the strike range seemed longer where Southern stayed higher and the strikes seemed to be a bit closer.

That seems to be a general, or common difference between Northern and Southern styles. Northern seems to fight in a longer range and Southern in a closer range. This was true in the Sil Lum I studied and has already been told to me in with the Southern Mantis.

My Sil Lum Sifu taught us that the reason southern systems fight in closer ranges and northern in longer ranges is because of the terrain when the styles were developed. The northern countryside was open and hence made for long range fighting. The southern countryside (for lack of a better term) was close in, not open country. So they had to learn to fight in close quarters.

What I find interesting is that you observed the northern stances were lower than the southern stances, as there seems to be a generalization that southern styles incorporate lower stances. Thanks for posting your observations as I have not had the opportunity to see northern mantis yet.

 

[mantis]

I didn't know you and Adam trained together. That's cool.

You know, I looked up southern mantis too...I also saw that it said it is not related to northern mantis at all. I haven't read too much more on it yet. . I'd be interested in some of the other links you found because I didn't find anything yet that said it came from the north, though that migration would seem logical.

Keywords...I have soooo much to learn. I don't understand any of the terms yet that my Sifu uses in class. What do you mean by keywords? Would that be the Chinese term for a specific technique? (I'm deducing that by the keywords thread in the Northern Styles forum).

It is my understanding that northern and southern dialects are different. For example, the Sil Lum I studied was a southern Shaolin. Sil Lum = southern dialect, Cantonese, and Shaolin = northern dialect, Mandarin.

I'm just making assumptions here. I'm guessing if keywords are chinese terms then there would be a difference in the term for similar techniques? Correct me if I'm wrong. I'm thinking out loud and trying to learn. I want all the info I can get to help me better understand this system I am dedicating myself to.

Thank you. :asian:

I do not train with Adam in fact i have never met him. But we share the same lineage except he trains in northern texas and i tran in southern california

keywords are something like the 'principles' and they are not necessarily chinese. You may or may not have them. I was asking because the 'wang lang' guy wrote those and passed them down and now every mantis system shares them. I was wondering if souther mantis shares the same keywords too. They are something like 'intercepting', 'sticking', 'making contact', 'leaning' and so on..... you will probably get into this when you're passed basic classes.
i am assuming you are starting from the beginning, correct? or did they count any previous experience you have?

 

[Xue Sheng]

in what way southern mantis forms are more painful to watch? which norther styles have you seen?

We were sparing and I was getting hit.

However when I saw it later it was not as painful to watch. It was higher than the Northern mantis and appeared to be a bit quicker. But the speed could be more the practitioner than the style.

He was incredibly fast.

I was just watching the Northern mantis form from the sidelines; I was not sparing the Northern mantis person.

As to which Northern styles have I seen if you are asking specifically about the Mantis, I only know it was Northern mantis.

If you are asking in General
I have also seen and done Xingyi, Tai Chi, and bit of Bagua which are Northern

I have also seen Eagle claw done by a Northern trained fighter and Shaolin Long fist (I believe northern) and Yiquan.

And Jade Tigress

That is how it was explained to me as well by my first Sifu. The terrain is what makes the difference. As he put it there was a lot of open space in the North and a lot of closed in city streets in the South.

 

[Jade Tigress]

I do not train with Adam in fact i have never met him. But we share the same lineage except he trains in northern texas and i tran in southern california

Gotcha. I misinterpreted that other post. Sorry 'bout that. Still cool you two train the same system. I never had anyone else on the board I could really discuss Sil Lum with so I'm excited to have others familiar with mantis, be it northern or southern, for discussion and most likely to answer a whole bunch of newb questions lol.

 

[CrushingFist]

I can't wait to start training either and tell you guys about it =]

 

[mantis]

I can't wait to start training either and tell you guys about it =]

are you going to start mantis any soon?
what do you study now?

 

[Jade Tigress]

are you going to start mantis any soon?
what do you study now?

Ditto. We want details man. Start a thread and tell us about it.

 

[CrushingFist]

are you going to start mantis any soon?
what do you study now?

Nah, I won't be taking mantis, I'm looking into an internal art. I'm still researching and stuff. It'll probably be Xingyi and Bagua first, then move into Taijiquan in a few more years. I was trying to find a My Jhong Law Horn school but none in NY. THere's Master Su Yu-Chang that teaches Tang Lang and stuff maybe I'll see how much I'm interested in it. Mainly I am more attractive to Wudang for the past 2months.

But hey we are all studying CMA

Currently I'm not training and havent trained since I was 16.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Nah, I won't be taking mantis, I'm looking into an internal art. I'm still researching and stuff. It'll probably be Xingyi and Bagua first, then move into Taijiquan in a few more years. I was trying to find a My Jhong Law Horn school but none in NY. THere's Master Su Yu-Chang that teaches Tang Lang and stuff maybe I'll see how much I'm interested in it. Mainly I am more attractive to Wudang for the past 2months.

But hey we are all studying CMA

Currently I'm not training and havent trained since I was 16.

Well good luck in your search. Please keep up posted.

 

[CrushingFist]

Well good luck in your search. Please keep up posted.

Thanks for the luck ,, Will keep you folks posted every move

 

[Xue Sheng]

Jade Tigress

I spilled a large cup of tea today all over a bookcase and had to pull out all of the books. I happened to find this book “The Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles” which I have had for years and I also forgot about. As I was looking through it in a section called “Esoteric Southern Styles” I found a description of Southern Mantis, that from the point of view of someone that spared a Southern mantis person it made a lot of sense.

The Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles
By Jane Hallander
ISBN: 0865680655

Southern Preying Mantis; The “Machine Gun” Striking System.

I am not sure if it is still in print.

If you like I will type it up the Southern Mantis section and PM it to you when I get the chance.

It apparently is not related to the Northern system, Southern mantis bears little or no resemblance to the insect. I did notice that the characteristic hand positions of the Northern mantis stance were not there in the Southern and if I had spared the Northern I may have noticed more differences and if I saw the Southern and the Northern in the same day I may have noticed differences as well.

The book says basically the following

1) Southern Mantis has its origins in the Ming Dynasty

2) It was taught only to members of the royal house

3) It was originally called Jew Gar (royal family Kung fu)

4) When Ming fell to the Manchu the fled to the Northern Shaolin Monastery

5) Manchu burn Northern Monastery

6) Ming Flee to Southern Monastery

7) Manchu Burn Southern Monastery (the Manchu were looking for Jew Gar practitioners)

8) Change name to Southern Mantis to protect family.

9) The surviving members of the Royal family became known as the Hakka minority.
Hakka means Northern Guests

10) Southern mantis use to be taught secretly to the Hakka only.

After rereading this section of the book, based on what I experienced I can tell you I agree with what she is saying.

It is quick direct and very effective. It do not give an opponent a chance to deliver more than one blow (I can tell you this is true) It attacks rapidly until the opponent falls down (or backs up – that’s what I did, damn he was fast with strikes)

Also punches come from just about anywhere, they do not draw back to punch and he could hit several times from roughly the same position with either hand with power in very short range. This makes sense as to why I was hit so much and did so much blocking.

And this line is exactly what I experienced

“The opponent must ward of a barrage of machine gun like blows.”

 

[mantis]

Xue Sheng
Where are you located? i think it's about time I show you northern mantis.
jk, but I'd be more than happy to invite you to mantis seminars if you're close.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Xue Sheng
Where are you located? i think it's about time I show you northern mantis.
jk, but I'd be more than happy to invite you to mantis seminars if you're close.

Aw your just lookin’ to beat me up like the Southern guy did.

 

[mantis]

Aw your just lookin’ to beat me up like the Southern guy did.

Oh no, not the idea at all. I'm sure you can take me with a chi ball
but I do like to show people how authentic mantis styles look like.

 

[Jade Tigress]

Jade Tigress

I spilled a large cup of tea today all over a bookcase and had to pull out all of the books. I happened to find this book “The Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles” which I have had for years and I also forgot about. As I was looking through it in a section called “Esoteric Southern Styles” I found a description of Southern Mantis, that from the point of view of someone that spared a Southern mantis person it made a lot of sense.

The Complete Guide to Kung Fu Fighting Styles
By Jane Hallander
ISBN: 0865680655

Southern Preying Mantis; The “Machine Gun” Striking System.

I am not sure if it is still in print.

If you like I will type it up the Southern Mantis section and PM it to you when I get the chance.

It apparently is not related to the Northern system, Southern mantis bears little or no resemblance to the insect. I did notice that the characteristic hand positions of the Northern mantis stance were not there in the Southern and if I had spared the Northern I may have noticed more differences and if I saw the Southern and the Northern in the same day I may have noticed differences as well.

The book says basically the following

1) Southern Mantis has its origins in the Ming Dynasty

2) It was taught only to members of the royal house

3) It was originally called Jew Gar (royal family Kung fu)

4) When Ming fell to the Manchu the fled to the Northern Shaolin Monastery

5) Manchu burn Northern Monastery

6) Ming Flee to Southern Monastery

7) Manchu Burn Southern Monastery (the Manchu were looking for Jew Gar practitioners)

8) Change name to Southern Mantis to protect family.

9) The surviving members of the Royal family became known as the Hakka minority.
Hakka means Northern Guests

10) Southern mantis use to be taught secretly to the Hakka only.

After rereading this section of the book, based on what I experienced I can tell you I agree with what she is saying.

It is quick direct and very effective. It do not give an opponent a chance to deliver more than one blow (I can tell you this is true) It attacks rapidly until the opponent falls down (or backs up – that’s what I did, damn he was fast with strikes)

Also punches come from just about anywhere, they do not draw back to punch and he could hit several times from roughly the same position with either hand with power in very short range. This makes sense as to why I was hit so much and did so much blocking.

And this line is exactly what I experienced

“The opponent must ward of a barrage of machine gun like blows.”

Thank you soooo much. Yes, if you wouldn't mind, please PM or e-mail the rest. What I have been learning the past 2 weeks is exactly what you have described, including some of the history I have been begun learning.
:asian:

 

[Xue Sheng]

Oh no, not the idea at all. I'm sure you can take me with a chi ball
but I do like to show people how authentic mantis styles look like.

Thats good cause I'm deadly with those kamayamaya type Chi ball attacks

Thank You I would enjoy seeing it sometime but for all intensive purposes I live in a martial arts wilderness. Nothing round but squirrels, chipmunks and trees. That is why Sanda was so good when I trained, a lot of trees to beat up on.


Also I am not saying anything against Northern Mantis, all I saw of it was form and I liked what I saw. The Southern Mantis I saw much more of at much closer range and I was rather impressed as well as battered. (Didn’t have that Chi ball thing down back then ) I use to spar a lot back then and he was by far the most impressive. Not the only one better than me, but definitely the most impressive, but as I said I never spared Northern Mantis.

But I should also add this guy may not be the typical CMA student you generally run into. He had trained Traditional Southern Mantis for greater than 12 years with a Southern Mantis teacher from Southern China and he had just got out of the Marines.