Had an argument with a Bujinkan instructor. He believes that turning your back to throw someone in a fight would be good. I disagree and doubt most of the techniques that I have been learning. After reading that the Bujinkan might not even be historically based I have decided to pursue other arts. I was wondering how advance Muy Thai can be? Is there just a basic understanding of strikes? How well can it apply in real life? Seems like something that I want to master.
Muy Thai for self defense? How advanced are techniques.
- Thread starter kip42
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Nomad
Master Black Belt
I think this "argument" likely shows a lack of understanding on your part of how a throw is done. I don't turn my back on an opponent to throw him... first I'd hit him (likely several times) to disorient them, then take away his balance and base, then (if it felt right), I might turn and throw him.
The point is that you don't do throws on opponents who are in a good state to resist them. I suspect the instructor knew this, and didn't want to bother getting into a long discussion of this with you because he was able to see that your teacup was already full, and thus you probably couldn't learn very much from him.
Muay Thai is a great combat sport, involving terrific body conditioning and some pretty brutal striking. It is one of the cornerstones of MMA (along with BJJ and wrestling), and definitely works very well in that context as well as in its own competitive setting.
It's great to want to master something. Start by finding a good school (in whatever art interests you), and attend regularly. Try to take your inquisitive mind out of the loop for awhile and just learn what they're teaching... as a beginner in any art you come in with preconceptions and misconceptions and may have no idea what you're really being taught in any given class. Take awhile to just train and see how it fits together for you.
The point is that you don't do throws on opponents who are in a good state to resist them. I suspect the instructor knew this, and didn't want to bother getting into a long discussion of this with you because he was able to see that your teacup was already full, and thus you probably couldn't learn very much from him.
Muay Thai is a great combat sport, involving terrific body conditioning and some pretty brutal striking. It is one of the cornerstones of MMA (along with BJJ and wrestling), and definitely works very well in that context as well as in its own competitive setting.
It's great to want to master something. Start by finding a good school (in whatever art interests you), and attend regularly. Try to take your inquisitive mind out of the loop for awhile and just learn what they're teaching... as a beginner in any art you come in with preconceptions and misconceptions and may have no idea what you're really being taught in any given class. Take awhile to just train and see how it fits together for you.
Yeah, it really depends on the context in which your back is turned for the throw. But sefinitely spar the Muay Thai guy. Worth it just for the experience!
Indagator
Blue Belt
Wow can't believe I missed this one. I spent a good few years in Muay Thai, and am now training in the Bujinkan. I'd say personally that yeah you can learn a lot of good stuff from Muay Thai, some of which may or may not work in a given situation out on the street.
I have successfully used what I learned in Muay Thai to defend myself, and have also tried on other occassions but ended up getting my rear end handed to me...
As for what I have learned in the Bujinkan, well. To quote a certain janitor from MadTV: That took it to the HNL. Hole Nuvva Level...
Yeah it's a different approach, different purpose, different philosophy. But honestly I keep hearing people on the net trash talk ninjutsu but seriously the stuff I have been learning, particularly the psychological aspects and intent aspects, has literally helped me to simply "not be there" in a confrontation, rather than hanging around and having to punch it out.
I have also used it to neutralise a few particularly vicious attacks, whilst remaining clearly a law abiding citizen in my actions, and on one occasion disarm somebody who was suicidal/self harm-ish, wielding a knife and threatening me.
All said and done you need to find the path that works the best for you, and make your journey for we are all pilgrims here, friend.
My .02 though is that Muay Thai has certain limitations in being sport based, however you can work around these if you really intend to, and also the two gyms I trained in the philosophy was pretty much smash the f@#k out of the other guy til he drops or it ends somehow.
Ninjutsu, I believe, is more of an art of "subtle diplomacy" so to speak. In fact I remember being taught that even when the ***** hits the fan the object is to reach a "point of negotiation" so to speak!
I have successfully used what I learned in Muay Thai to defend myself, and have also tried on other occassions but ended up getting my rear end handed to me...
As for what I have learned in the Bujinkan, well. To quote a certain janitor from MadTV: That took it to the HNL. Hole Nuvva Level...
Yeah it's a different approach, different purpose, different philosophy. But honestly I keep hearing people on the net trash talk ninjutsu but seriously the stuff I have been learning, particularly the psychological aspects and intent aspects, has literally helped me to simply "not be there" in a confrontation, rather than hanging around and having to punch it out.
I have also used it to neutralise a few particularly vicious attacks, whilst remaining clearly a law abiding citizen in my actions, and on one occasion disarm somebody who was suicidal/self harm-ish, wielding a knife and threatening me.
All said and done you need to find the path that works the best for you, and make your journey for we are all pilgrims here, friend.
My .02 though is that Muay Thai has certain limitations in being sport based, however you can work around these if you really intend to, and also the two gyms I trained in the philosophy was pretty much smash the f@#k out of the other guy til he drops or it ends somehow.
Ninjutsu, I believe, is more of an art of "subtle diplomacy" so to speak. In fact I remember being taught that even when the ***** hits the fan the object is to reach a "point of negotiation" so to speak!
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Cyriacus
Senior Master
Turning Your back is not Suicide. I dont care what anyone says. Even Trained Fighters have trouble getting in and doing anything. And I mean, folks trained specifically to move in on People who turn around. It is not easy.
But I think everyone else has gotten the point across. Muay Thai works in Self Defense. So does Bujinkan.
It is how it is Trained, and the intent of the Learner.
But I think everyone else has gotten the point across. Muay Thai works in Self Defense. So does Bujinkan.
It is how it is Trained, and the intent of the Learner.
oaktree
Master of Arts
The idea of throwing someone with your back is fine
Look at seoi nage an excellent throw. But to apply it you
Need kuzushi and tsukuri meaning disblancing and proper
Entering. If you are your opponent are in clinch a quick turn of
Your waist can easily get most people over your hip for a
Throw. If you notice most of the player in judo are already
Off balance by the time of the throw.
Spend some time with a good judoka.
Look at seoi nage an excellent throw. But to apply it you
Need kuzushi and tsukuri meaning disblancing and proper
Entering. If you are your opponent are in clinch a quick turn of
Your waist can easily get most people over your hip for a
Throw. If you notice most of the player in judo are already
Off balance by the time of the throw.
Spend some time with a good judoka.
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