Motivation time :)

[DanT]

I think a simple ranking system is cool to keep people motivated and give them goals. Nice and easy. Every 2 years or so people test. It gives them motivation to advance. We have Black sashes who have been Black sashes for over 20 years, and they still train.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Note: There are no belt ranks in Traditional Chinese Martial arts (Kung Fu/Wushu) and that Wing Chun and Shuai Chiao (Shuaijiao) are traditional Chinese martial arts. Also note the term Kung Fu (although a mistake) is what is used to categorize all Chinese marital arts and with that you get this

Bafaquan
Baguazhang
Bajiquan
Bak Mei
Black Tiger Kung Fu
Chaquan
Changquan
Chuo Jiao
Choy Gar
Choy Li Fut
Dachengquan
Ditangquan
Do Pi
Lung Ying
Duan Quan
Emeiquan
Fanziquan
Five Ancestors
Five Animals
Fujian White Crane
Fu Jow Pai
Fut Gar
Gouquan
Hakka Kuen
Hong Cha
Hop Gar
Houquan
Drunken Monkey
Heihuquan:
Huaquan
Hung Fut
Hung Gar
Jing Wu Men
Jing Quan Do
Jow-Ga
Kuntao
Lau Gar
Lai Tung Pai
Lama Pai
Leopard Kung Fu
Li Gar
Liuhebafa Chuan
Luohan Quan
Mei Hua Quan
Mian Quan
Mizongyi
Mok Gar
Nam Pai Chuan
Nan Quan
Ng Mui Pai
Northern Praying Mantis
Northern Shaolin
Pai Long
Paochui
Piguaquan
Praying Mantis(??) - Free Fighting
Shaolin Quan
Shequan
Shuaijiao
Southern Praying Mantis
Chow Gar
Taijiquan
Tantui
Tibetan White Crane
Tien Shan Pai
Tongbeiquan
White Crane:
Wing Chun
Wudangquan
Xingyiquan
Yau Kung Mun
Yingzhaoquan
Yuejiaquan
Yiquan
Zi Ran Men

To name only a few and none of them (traditionally) have a belt ranking system.

So the list from the OP is only applicable to those CMA styles that came to the west and decided to use a belt ranking system to keep us Westerners happy. Also there is no agreed upon belt ranking system between any of them so the list may or may not apply. There is now a Duan system used in China, but it is from the government and few traditionalist take it all that seriously.

OK, I'm done

 

[jobo]

I think a simple ranking system is cool to keep people motivated and give them goals. Nice and easy. Every 2 years or so people test. It gives them motivation to advance. We have Black sashes who have been Black sashes for over 20 years, and they still train.

but the ranking,system is tosh . And if that's their motivation they are likely to enlist in schools that hand them out like toffees. Plus the ranking tend to be kata based, making them double tosh

nb two years is a bit of an hour excessive gap between tests. If you cant reach a standard of black belt in 7 years you should give up

 

[DanT]

but the ranking,system is tosh . And if that's their motivation they are likely to enlist in schools that hand them out like toffees. Plus the ranking tend to be kata based, making them double tosh

nb two years is a bit of an hour excessive gap between tests. If you cant reach a standard of black belt in 7 years you should give up

Firstly, it's definitely not their only motivation, but it still gives them a tangible mid-term goal to work towards. The testing requirements are strict, requiring them to work hard to meet the standard that is set.

Secondly, the ranking, at least in my club, is not form based, as forms occupy a rather minuscule element of the curriculum. A much greater emphasis is placed on technique, sparring, Chi Sao, fitness, etc.

Thirdly, a student progresses faster the more he trains. If he trains 6 days a week, then he probably will obtain a Black Sash in 6-7 years. Given that many students train 2-3 times a week, that period of time is often extended to a more reasonable 8-9 years.

And fourthly, no, they should not give up just because they can't obtain a Black Sash or Black Belt in 7 years. That would be the mindset of a quitter.

 

[marques]

If you cant reach a standard of black belt in 7 years you should give up

Why is it?

What is a standard black belt? In some styles it takes usually more than 10 years. Even in the cases the grading is rigorous and someone could never achieve black belt (or high level) why should one give up?

I would never achieve high rank in Muay Thai (without some Thai fights first and a great fitness level). Anyway, it was fun regardless the grading someone gave me. (In fact the grading gave me access to more advanced classes, which where more fun...)

 

[JowGaWolf]

Why shouldn't they be? To some people they are motivation to keep training what's wrong with that? At least they're training and getting better whatever the reason why

You lose out on some really good mental and self development benefits when you focus only on the the belt. For example if your motivation is a black belt, then what happens to your training after you get the black belt?

 

[JowGaWolf]

I gotta' get me some belts. Need belts, want belts, got to have belts! Yum, yum, eat em' up!

Lol. didn't even have to play it. You are showing your age. The things that used to play on TV.

 

[kuniggety]

but the ranking,system is tosh . And if that's their motivation they are likely to enlist in schools that hand them out like toffees. Plus the ranking tend to be kata based, making them double tosh

nb two years is a bit of an hour excessive gap between tests. If you cant reach a standard of black belt in 7 years you should give up

I already know I'm not making black belt in 7 years and I'm not going to give up. I'm not even sure if I'll make it in another 7 years on top of the few I've already put in. I'm still not giving up.

 

[drop bear]

I already know I'm not making black belt in 7 years and I'm not going to give up. I'm not even sure if I'll make it in another 7 years on top of the few I've already put in. I'm still not giving up.

I won't get off white belt in under 7 years.

 

[jobo]

I already know I'm not making black belt in 7 years and I'm not going to give up. I'm not even sure if I'll make it in another 7 years on top of the few I've already put in. I'm still not giving up.

my suggestion was you should give up trying to become a black belt, rather than give up martial arts.
though there are some fundemental questions about why you cant acheive black belt status. You clearly are lacking in the capabilities' required, or there is something wrong with the teaching if it takes 14 years to achieve. Being 14 years older will make it harder not easier to reach the required standard

 

[JR 137]

You lose out on some really good mental and self development benefits when you focus only on the the belt. For example if your motivation is a black belt, then what happens to your training after you get the black belt?

I first started karate at 18 years old. I admittedly chased rank. I loved training, but I couldn't get the goal of getting the next belt out of my head. Black belt was the biggest goal. Average time to 1st dan was 5 years, but I trained 4-5 nights a week and usually did back to back classes. Not because I wanted to get to 1st dan quicker, but because I loved training. Not to mention I was in college and relatively didn't have any responsibilities. I earned mine about a month short of 4 years.

When I was finally promoted to 1st dan, I was like the dog that's been chasing the same car everyday and finally caught it, with that look on my face like "now what the hell do I do with it?" I was still JR. Still had the same strengths and weaknesses. No magical fighting powers.

It was a let down and a good wake up. I didn't care about rank anymore and just trained. I trained for another two years. I would've kept training, but I was offered a grad assistantship 5 hours away.

I returned 15 years later to a new dojo and organization. Started all over again at white belt. It's been two years now. And it'll probably be another 2 years before black belt. I look forward to the test, but wearing it isn't very high on my priority list by any means.

 

[Headhunter]

You lose out on some really good mental and self development benefits when you focus only on the the belt. For example if your motivation is a black belt, then what happens to your training after you get the black belt?

Well that's up to the person maybe they don't care about that stuff and that's their choice no one else's. if they just want the belt then good for them. Their reasons are just as legitimate as yours

 

[JR 137]

my suggestion was you should give up trying to become a black belt, rather than give up martial arts.
though there are some fundemental questions about why you cant acheive black belt status. You clearly are lacking in the capabilities' required, or there is something wrong with the teaching if it takes 14 years to achieve. Being 14 years older will make it harder not easier to reach the required standard

1. He hasn't said he's been in it for seven years already, hence negating your 14 years math.

2. What if 14 years is the norm for black belt in his system?

3. Don't hold me to these numbers...
BB in BJJ usually takes 10 years (?) of consistent training. If he's been at it for say, 3 years, then 7 more would put him on the schedule. What if life gets in the way and he has to take time off? Injuries? Illness?

None of those have to do with a lack of capability nor poor teaching.

Judging by kuniggety's posts on this forum overall, he seems to care far more about training and ability than he does about a belt. He seems to have the same mentality about a belt as I do - it's a side effect of training, not a race to achieve it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Well that's up to the person maybe they don't care about that stuff and that's their choice no one else's. if they just want the belt then good for them. Their reasons are just as legitimate as yours

I simply just stated on some of the benefits that are lost when the belt is the only motivation. If a student is paying good money for the class then they might as well maximize what they are getting in return. If all the student cares about is the belt then. The $200 - $300 a month, $2,400 - $3,600 a year, or the $12,000 - $18,000 (for 5 years or more) is a lot of money to have a black belt and nothing else out of the training.

Is this a legitimate reason? If that's what reason the person give then it's a reason. The only thing that makes a reason legitimate is for a person to have one. Is it the reason I would recommend? Not a all. But that's just me. As a person I don't like to see people "short change" their personal development in martial arts.

 

[jobo]

1. He hasn't said he's been in it for seven years already, hence negating your 14 years math.

2. What if 14 years is the norm for black belt in his system?

3. Don't hold me to these numbers...
BB in BJJ usually takes 10 years (?) of consistent training. If he's been at it for say, 3 years, then 7 more would put him on the schedule. What if life gets in the way and he has to take time off? Injuries? Illness?

None of those have to do with a lack of capability nor poor teaching.

Judging by kuniggety's posts on this forum overall, he seems to care far more about training and ability than he does about a belt. He seems to have the same mentality about a belt as I do - it's a side effect of training, not a race to achieve it.

the op said two years per grade, hence at least 14 years. It shouldn't take you 14 years to get the hang of anything.
if it does its a case of suboptimal students or teaching. Most sports men have a career that doesnt last 14 years

 

[kuniggety]

my suggestion was you should give up trying to become a black belt, rather than give up martial arts.
though there are some fundemental questions about why you cant acheive black belt status. You clearly are lacking in the capabilities' required, or there is something wrong with the teaching if it takes 14 years to achieve. Being 14 years older will make it harder not easier to reach the required standard

JR 137 answered pretty well for me. You obviously must just not know what goes into being a BJJ black belt. 7 years is actually pretty damn fast. That's young bucks who don't have other commitments and are on the mats 4 or 5 days a week. 10 years is pretty normal. Those of us with other commitments, it will take even a bit longer.

It took me 2 1/2 yrs for blue belt. I'm 1 1/2 years into blue now and it will probably be another 2 years before I make purple. Then there's brown and then black after that. There's nothing wrong with me or the instruction. I'm in pretty damn good shape and I'm a pretty intelligent guy. There's times I'm on the mats 2 or 3 times a week and others I might only do one day. I do solo drills and run through instructional material on my own to try to make up for it.

I do BJJ because I get a helluva work out from it, have fun while I'm doing it, and I'm learning the skills to defend myself if I have to. The belts are just a by-product.

 

[jobo]

JR 137 answered pretty well for me. You obviously must just not know what goes into being a BJJ black belt. 7 years is actually pretty damn fast. That's young bucks who don't have other commitments and are on the mats 4 or 5 days a week. 10 years is pretty normal. Those of us with other commitments, it will take even a bit longer.

It took me 2 1/2 yrs for blue belt. I'm 1 1/2 years into blue now and it will probably be another 2 years before I make purple. Then there's brown and then black after that. There's nothing wrong with me or the instruction. I'm in pretty damn good shape and I'm a pretty intelligent guy. There's times I'm on the mats 2 or 3 times a week and others I might only do one day. I do solo drills and run through instructional material on my own to try to make up for it.

I do BJJ because I get a helluva work out from it, have fun while I'm doing it, and I'm learning the skills to defend myself if I have to. The belts are just a by-product.

they are simple movement patterns programed in to the brain by repeating over and over again, given a reasonable level of dedication and a reasonably agile brain, that shouldn't take a decade to acheive, it really shouldnt. People can learn to dance an awful lot quicker than that and its intrinsically the same process of learning movement

 

[JR 137]

they are simple movement patterns programed in to the brain by repeating over and over again, given a reasonable level of dedication and a reasonably agile brain, that shouldn't take a decade to acheive, it really shouldnt. People can learn to dance an awful lot quicker than that and its intrinsically the same process of learning movement

Do you train BJJ?

I don't, but I'm pretty sure a big part of the system isn't simply physically memorizing movements. Some Karate (gulp, I train karate), Kung Fu, TKD, etc. places do this; demonstrate a kata proficiently, then you're promoted without ever understanding what the movements mean nor how to actually use them, let alone against a resisting partner/opponent. For the most part, BJJ don't play that.

And having a career, spouse, kids, etc. have a funny way of getting in the way. I can only make it to the dojo 2 nights a week. And it's a miracle that I can. During my first stint, I didn't have that.

 

[JR 137]

the op said two years per grade, hence at least 14 years. It shouldn't take you 14 years to get the hang of anything.
if it does its a case of suboptimal students or teaching. Most sports men have a career that doesnt last 14 years

There's a big difference between "sports men" who's job it is to play and people like us.

 

[jobo]

There's a big difference between "sports men" who's job it is to play and people like us.

it doesn't matter if they are professionals' or Sunday league, if you start playing with the big boys at 20 then you are unlikely to get a 14 year career out of it, before your too slow