Most effective striking arts in your opinions

[skribs]

except that with the thick glove on your fist you can't tell quite which knuckles you are striking with.

Hahahahahahaha.

 

[Denoaikido]

Thank you all for such great replies keep them coming no answer is wrong I should have also humbly put that.

 

[JR 137]

jr 137 ^^^^^Did you read the title or read the last sentence.My question is what more stand uppish based striking arts are there really beside boxing and karate and tkd none them really interest me? This was the title of the thread Most effective striking arts in your opinions..... This is a board full of different arts i thought be great place to hear some ideas and exchange thoughts

The best one is the one that’s close enough to you, you can afford to train at, you can train at consistently, and you like the most.

Karate is a pretty generic term. There’s quite a difference between styles like Kyokushin, Shotokan, and Uechi Ryu, to name a few. Then there’s a big difference between individual dojos and teachers within the same organization. I’m in Seido Karate; there are some dojos and teachers I’d love to train under within the organization, and some I wouldn’t train at for various reasons. Hell, there’s a big difference between how my chief instructor structures and runs class and how the few assistant instructors all individually run class.

If I said Seido Karate was the best, would you be sold on it? Would me telling you Jeet Kune Do is the best make that true? What about Kajukenbo?

What if I said Kali was the best, but there wasn’t one near you? Then I said Muay Thai is second, but you didn’t have access to that either? How good would they be to you?

Pick a school, not an art. Way too many arts to name, and a very small percentage of them will be available to you for one reason or another anyway. The most important thing is finding a teacher who’s teaching style aligns with you, and a solid group of classmates to work with. If Silat was the best art ever but the local teacher sucked and the students are a bunch of kids, I’d rather go to a school that had a great teacher and students who have goals similar to mine, even if the style wasn’t allegedly as good (provided they weren’t doing stuff that was a bit too stupid).

The best striking art is Seido Karate. My teacher is great and most of my classmates and I are pretty much on the same page. You probably don’t live close enough though.

 

[skribs]

The best one is the one that’s close enough to you, you can afford to train at, you can train at consistently, and you like the most.

Karate is a pretty generic term. There’s quite a difference between styles like Kyokushin, Shotokan, and Uechi Ryu, to name a few. Then there’s a big difference between individual dojos and teachers within the same organization. I’m in Seido Karate; there are some dojos and teachers I’d love to train under within the organization, and some I wouldn’t train at for various reasons. Hell, there’s a big difference between how my chief instructor structures and runs class and how the few assistant instructors all individually run class.

If I said Seido Karate was the best, would you be sold on it? Would me telling you Jeet Kune Do is the best make that true? What about Kajukenbo?

What if I said Kali was the best, but there wasn’t one near you? Then I said Muay Thai is second, but you didn’t have access to that either? How good would they be to you?

Pick a school, not an art. Way too many arts to name, and a very small percentage of them will be available to you for one reason or another anyway. The most important thing is finding a teacher who’s teaching style aligns with you, and a solid group of classmates to work with. If Silat was the best art ever but the local teacher sucked and the students are a bunch of kids, I’d rather go to a school that had a great teacher and students who have goals similar to mine, even if the style wasn’t allegedly as good (provided they weren’t doing stuff that was a bit too stupid).

The best striking art is Seido Karate. My teacher is great and most of my classmates and I are pretty much on the same page. You probably don’t live close enough though.

When I was looking for a school, I did my research on arts and decided Baguazhang or Wing Chun were best for what I wanted.

None of them were near me so I took TKD.

 

[JR 137]

When I was looking for a school, I did my research on arts and decided Baguazhang or Wing Chun were best for what I wanted.

None of them were near me so I took TKD.

I’d LOVE to try out Enshin, Ashihara or Kudo. Enshin and Ashihara combine Kyokushin Karate and Judo. Kudo/Daido Juku (it’s somehow called both interchangeablely) is basically an MMA with Kyokushin as it’s base and a belt ranking system similar to Judo where you can rank up if you’re consistently beating people ranked higher.

None are anywhere near me. Not that I “settled” by any means, but having those to see first hand and try would’ve been nice.

 

[JR 137]

When I was looking for a school, I did my research on arts and decided Baguazhang or Wing Chun were best for what I wanted.

None of them were near me so I took TKD.

Then there’s Kajukenbo. I saw the Fight Quest episode on it and thought it looks like the perfect system. I visited the local school. What they were doing didn’t have much resemblance to what I saw on TV. Go figure; I thought a reality show was supposed to be 100% real Different teachers and students do things differently. Needless to say that school wasn’t my cup of tea. Kajukenbo isn’t to blame; every teacher is different, even within the same art and organization. It’s akin to thinking I’d have the same exact experience if I trained under my teacher or at his teacher’s school. They both follow the same syllabus, but there’s a lot of differences in how we train Good, bad, and everything in between.

 

[wab25]

Flying Crane... you have had a very different boxing experience than I have...

they may get injuries such as rolling their wrist or striking with the wrong portion of the knuckles and breaking the hand.

The boxing coaches I had were always very particular about these things. I was always taught the correct alignment of the wrist, to prevent injury. They were always very particular about what portion of the knuckles to hit with. In fact, on the receiving end, you can tell if they hit with the correct knuckles... the wrist and arm alignment delivers power to the first 2 knuckles, but not to the last 2. You can feel the difference in both power and sharpness, when being hit with the wrong knuckles, even through the glove. All the things you mention that they should improve... are things I was taught from day one. My boxing coaches were more particular about not leaving the thumb out to get broke, then most MA instructors I have seen.

However, other improvements would be methods that are better at teaching how to engage the feet and legs to drive the punch and rely less on the shoulders and upper torso.

Again... this was not my experience. The first bit we did was train foot work. The thing we train most was foot work. We did this specifically because proper foot work will generate more power. I was always taught to generate the power from the floor. The punching power comes from you feet and legs, through your hips. This is what the phrase "sitting down on his punches" is talking about. It means he is rooting better. Even the jab is taught as a push / launch off the back leg, to drive you into a forward step, landing the jab as your foot hits the ground. Relying on shoulders and upper torso for punching power, is very much frowned upon by boxers.

 

[Flying Crane]

Hahahahahahaha.

Have you ever worn boxing gloves?

 

[Flying Crane]

Flying Crane... you have had a very different boxing experience than I have...
The boxing coaches I had were always very particular about these things. I was always taught the correct alignment of the wrist, to prevent injury. They were always very particular about what portion of the knuckles to hit with. In fact, on the receiving end, you can tell if they hit with the correct knuckles... the wrist and arm alignment delivers power to the first 2 knuckles, but not to the last 2. You can feel the difference in both power and sharpness, when being hit with the wrong knuckles, even through the glove. All the things you mention that they should improve... are things I was taught from day one. My boxing coaches were more particular about not leaving the thumb out to get broke, then most MA instructors I have seen.

fair enough, that’s your experience.

I never claimed to have trained boxing. I believe i even said that I never had any interest in it and never followed it.

I have worn boxing gloves, and the glove itself positions the thumb up. This isn’t a problem while wearing the glove because the glove gives protection. However, I have seen people shadow-boxing without gloves and without wraps, with the thumb pointing up. My observation is, if they don’t do something to overcome that habitual position, they could have problems if they throw a punch outside the ring.

If boxers are taking steps to mitigate that, then great. I’m sure some coaches are better than others, and some boxers are better students than others. Different folks will get different mileage.

Again... this was not my experience. The first bit we did was train foot work. The thing we train most was foot work. We did this specifically because proper foot work will generate more power. I was always taught to generate the power from the floor. The punching power comes from you feet and legs, through your hips. This is what the phrase "sitting down on his punches" is talking about. It means he is rooting better. Even the jab is taught as a push / launch off the back leg, to drive you into a forward step, landing the jab as your foot hits the ground. Relying on shoulders and upper torso for punching power, is very much frowned upon by boxers.

m

As I said, I know boxers are not ignorant of this, and I never said they do a poor job or lack skill. However from my observations, it can be done better than what I have seen boxers do.

 

[skribs]

Have you ever worn boxing gloves?

Yes. And that's why I'm laughing. I can definitely tell what is hitting the target.

 

[Flying Crane]

Yes. And that's why I'm laughing. I can definitely tell what is hitting the target.

Fair enough, and honestly I can too. What I should have said is, there is less control over what is hitting because it is a big, clumsy bag over the hand. That’s how i felt anyways, when I put on boxing gloves. Not my cup of tea.

Meh.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Have you ever worn boxing gloves?

I have trained with boxing gloves for many years and like skribs I can 100% tell which knuckles are hitting the target.

You have a point about the fact that boxing gloves put the thumb in a position which is incorrect for bare knuckle punching. However I have never met a boxer who didn’t position his thumbs correctly when punching a solid target with his bare fist.

 

[skribs]

Fair enough, and honestly I can too. What I should have said is, there is less control over what is hitting because it is a big, clumsy bag over the hand. That’s how i felt anyways, when I put on boxing gloves. Not my cup of tea.

Meh.

Big difference between "not my cup of tea" and "they're training wrong."

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Fair enough, and honestly I can too. What I should have said is, there is less control over what is hitting because it is a big, clumsy bag over the hand. That’s how i felt anyways, when I put on boxing gloves. Not my cup of tea.

Meh.

It does take some extra time to get used to the gloves so that you can consistently hit with the correct knuckles and proper alignment, but not all that long.

I actually prefer my training to use a mixture of boxing gloves, MMA gloves, and bare knuckle.

Boxing gloves are good for moderate to hard contact sparring. They’re also good for high-volume bag training. If you go 10 rounds of heavy bag work with bare fists, that’s a lot of wear and tear on the knuckles.

MMA gloves are good for lighter contact sparring with grappling mixed in. Also good for finding shots through smaller openings that might be hard to hit with bulky boxing gloves.

Bare knuckle practice on the heavy bag helps verify good technique and condition the hands. Sparring allows maximum use of grappling. When I do bare knuckle sparring I keep the strikes very light contact. (Although I’ve always been curious about Kyokushin style sparring, I would need to get myself back into better shape to try that for real. The one time I sparred with a Kyokushin stylist under those rules we kept it beginner level, under 50% intensity.)

 

[Flying Crane]

Big difference between "not my cup of tea" and "they're training wrong."

I never said they are training wrong. In fact I have acknowledged that they can be quite good.

I have merely pointed out some things that I feel could be problematic, and I also acknowledged that IF they take steps to mitigate the problems, then they won’t be a problem.

On some other things, I’ve simply said that from what Ive seen, i feel it can be done better.

So i ask you this: what do you want to get from this discussion? Do you want me to recant and say that I agree that boxing is the best kind of punching that there is? Because I won’t agree to that.

Meh.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have trained with boxing gloves for many years and like skribs I can 100% tell which knuckles are hitting the target.

You have a point about the fact that boxing gloves put the thumb in a position which is incorrect for bare knuckle punching. However I have never met a boxer who didn’t position his thumbs correctly when punching a solid target with his bare fist.

That’s reasonable, and is in line with what I have been saying: that particular problem may not be a problem if steps are taken to correct it. My comment was based on what I have seen people do.

 

[Flying Crane]

It does take some extra time to get used to the gloves so that you can consistently hit with the correct knuckles and proper alignment, but not all that long.

I actually prefer my training to use a mixture of boxing gloves, MMA gloves, and bare knuckle.

Boxing gloves are good for moderate to hard contact sparring. They’re also good for high-volume bag training. If you go 10 rounds of heavy bag work with bare fists, that’s a lot of wear and tear on the knuckles.

MMA gloves are good for lighter contact sparring with grappling mixed in. Also good for finding shots through smaller openings that might be hard to hit with bulky boxing gloves.

Bare knuckle practice on the heavy bag helps verify good technique and condition the hands. Sparring allows maximum use of grappling. When I do bare knuckle sparring I keep the strikes very light contact. (Although I’ve always been curious about Kyokushin style sparring, I would need to get myself back into better shape to try that for real. The one time I sparred with a Kyokushin stylist under those rules we kept it beginner level, under 50% intensity.)

There is nothing here that I would disagree with.

This is once again completely in line with what I’ve been saying: if proper steps are taken to mitigate the issue that I identified, then it is not a problem. What you describe sounds very appropriate to me.

 

[lklawson]

If you go 10 rounds of heavy bag work with bare fists, that’s a lot of wear and tear on the knuckles.

The old bare knuckle dudes had various recipes for salves and lineaments to toughen up the knuckles. They're a little like Jow. Some of the recipes are lost to time or a little bit unclear, like Dempsey's "Camphor Ice," and some of them are illegal today, like Fitzsimmons' lineament which contained Laudanum. Others are available but may contain things that we don't want to rub on our skin for cultural or social reasons, such as pickling brine or urine. It's a fascinating subject, really.

Peace favor your sword,
Kirk

 

[Buka]

I started boxing in an old fashioned boxing gym when I was a brown belt. The boxing gym was a block from my Karate school. It was a wonderful experience, spent many years there. Went on to judge boxing, worked as a corner man in the Golden gloves, did a lot of training with Ray Leonard out in L.A. Taught him his first Karate lesson, too. I said to him, "Ray, I promise not to teach you how to punch." We laughed.

My opinions on boxing probably differ from others.

 

[Yokozuna514]

When I do bare knuckle sparring I keep the strikes very light contact. (Although I’ve always been curious about Kyokushin style sparring, I would need to get myself back into better shape to try that for real. The one time I sparred with a Kyokushin stylist under those rules we kept it beginner level, under 50% intensity.)

Very interesting. Generally, most people that try Kyokushin style sparring for the first time START with the intention of going light but generally, if they are both new to it), the temperature rises pretty quickly . This was obviously not the case for you and the person you were sparring with so I commend you on your restraint.