More vs Less Training Time

[isshinryuronin]

I think you've misunderstood PhotonGuy's pont. He didn't criticize people who train harder/longer as being impatient - he asked if someone who trains more would be considered impatient.

To answer the question - It depends. It depends on whether the person is training harder/longer just to get ahead faster. In this case, he could be described as impatient. The irony is sometimes getting caught up in this will actually slow his advancement. If he is training harder/longer with no thought of time or destination, just immersed in his dedicated pursuit of the journey, he could be described as a true martial artist.

Now, it's entirely possible he could start out the first way, then a few years later, as a second degree black belt for example, come to realize the true nature of his art and end up in the second category. Hopefully, we evolve over the years. Some don't, some do. Those that do, discover an amazing new appreciation and understanding of the art that has nothing to do with power and speed. Yet, this understanding often leads to greater power and speed.

To quote a frequent poster, "Sit on a rock for three years" and ponder that.

 

[PhotonGuy]

I think you've misunderstood PhotonGuy's pont. He didn't criticize people who train harder/longer as being impatient - he asked if someone who trains more would be considered impatient.

Thank you Tony Dismukes.

The reason he asked such a thing, if my years of reading his posts don't mislead me, is that some time back in one of his earlier threads someone (I don't remember who) told him that training more hours per week in order to progress faster was just a sign of impatience and shouldn't be encouraged. Since then that's been a point he has fixated on and occasionally returned to.

I don't recall any specific person who said training more was a sign of impatience although I do believe, up to a point, that there is nothing wrong with training more hours per week if you want to progress faster. I say up to a point because there is a point in your training when you can overdo it and burn yourself out in which case you would have to recover and in the long run you would end up progressing slower not faster.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Getting back to the posts on painting: we moved into a new house last year and the covid lockdown has given me the time to start painting the rooms. Looking for a silver lining in a bad situation.

Good for you. I've also been doing some renovations during the lockdown, not any painting but I've been putting up cabinets and blinds and moving stuff around.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Not sure if I agree. Let's use an analogy.

You are creating a sculpture out of stone. To begin, you must haul a huge block of rock to your studio, careful not to screw up your back. This is the White belt stage. Then, start hammering away with a chisel for hours till your arms ache, cleaving off chunks, without shattering the block. This is the hard work. Green belt stage. But then, as it takes shape into something recognizable, you can throw away the heavy hammer and chisel, and start to use the lighter weight, finer, tools. using less brute force and more wrist technique. More precise and less physical effort, but slower paced and more care taken. You realize, this sculpture won't be done in a few months, or even years. This is the black belt stage. Next, you are ready to polish and add expression to your work, letting your hands and fingers do the magic, and advance thru the Dans.

So, I don't know if one trains harder - certainly one starts to train differently.

Im only speaking from my own experience when I talk about it getting harder after making black belt not easier. For one thing, once you make black belt, at the dojo they're going to expect more out of you, but aside from that, you're going to be expecting more out of yourself.

As for your analogy, working with the finer tools and using more precise technique is in some ways harder than using the hammer and chisel and brute force. Maybe not physically harder but harder in terms of skill.

 

[PhotonGuy]

That specific fact is correct. How that fact is applied in the real world is not nearly as simple as you make it out to be. Your analogy works only if you simplify it and remove any variables that would make it wrong.

Let's go back to your quote:



This says a couple of things:

1. You realize that more data would invalidate your point. You are asking for us not to provide more data, so we won't see the holes in your logic.
2. You are effectively trying to silence everyone. You make a point, nobody else is allowed to speak about it. That's the equivalent of saying something, and then when someone tries to argue, you stick your fingers in your ears and yell "LA LA LAL ALA LALLALALAAL LA" so you can't hear anyone tell you anything you don't want to hear.

This goes back to your original point, that training more is "impatient." You've demonized someone who trains harder. When someone trains harder than you, there are three approaches you could take:

1. Use them as an inspiration to train harder
2. Accept that they train more than you, and understand your own limitations on time, physical endurance, or drive to train as hard as they are
3. Spin their dedication as a negative trait so you seem superior

This whole thread seems to be you making fun of people that you're jealous of, and then getting upset when everyone tells you that it's a you problem and that training hard is a good thing.

You've got the wrong impression of me and if you've been reading my posts in the past you would know that. I am by no means trying encourage people to train less or calling them impatient if they train more. If I were to do so then I would be calling myself impatient and I would also be calling Bruce Lee impatient and if you know anything about me you will know that Bruce Lee is one of my great inspirations and role models and he trained like crazy.

Anyway perhaps I haven't been too clear about my point of starting this thread, my point is to challenge those who say that training more means you're impatient. Some people say there's no shortcut to excellence and I agree with that provided that we agree on what a "shortcut" is. If you define a shortcut at an easier way to excellence then I agree, there is no easier way to excellence. However, that doesn't mean there aren't quicker ways to excellence, not easier ways, just quicker ways.

In my example of where you're working a job where you make $10 an hour and you have a goal of making $400 in this case $400 represents excellence. Working 40 hours a week for one week will obviously get you to excellence quicker than working 20 hours a week for two weeks. Now, working 40 hours a week is not easier than working 20 hours a week its harder, its more hours per week, but it gets you to your goal quicker.

So while there are no shortcuts to excellence, and by that I mean easier ways to excellence, there are faster ways to reach excellence. They're not easier they're actually going to be harder as that's the tradeoff when you reach excellence sooner but they will get you there faster and $400 is $400 whether you take one week or two weeks to get it so the results are the same. The only difference is you're getting it sooner if you put in 40 hours a week instead of 20.

Now, if we were going to discuss details such as taxes and other such expenses that would just further complicate things and would not do anything in disproving my point. That's why in post #146 I talked about making a "gross amount" of $400 not a net amount. In my example all other expenses are covered, you just have a goal of making a "gross amount" of $400 which represents excellence.

My whole point is that while there are no shortcuts to excellence, shortcuts as in easier ways, there are faster ways to reach excellence. Not easier ways just faster ways.