More to Taekwondo than meets the eye?

[lifespantkd]

I will also submit that learning the philosophy and moral precepts contained in those or any text does not mean that you have to accept those principles without question.

I agree. Personal growth does not come from blind acceptance of someone else's philosophy. We may learn from others' philosophies, but we must experience our own.

Cynthia

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Thank you for sharing those words. A very comprehensive approach! Can you give some examples of how the philosophy is taught in your school?

Cynthia

There are many ways which this is emphasized. But let's start with the style of Taekwondo that I practice; Moo Duk Kwan. Moo Duk Kwan means the school of martial virtue.

Duk: This word means: benevolence, virtue, goodness, and commanding respect. The western translation, however, does not exactly coincide with the eastern meaning of the word virtue. Our western understanding of the definition of “virtue” refers to trait or quality deemed to be morally excellent and thus is valued as a foundation of principle and good moral being. However, Duk is a Daoist concept, referring to virtue or ability for one to realize his/her own potential. Duk, or De in Chinese, is a subtle concept that is difficult to grasp in western society. The Chinese text, Daodejing, explains that De (Duk) is the sum of all power that is inherent in each individual that can be realized through the way (Dao / Do). Duk can also be described as the active, living, or cultivation of “the way” (Do). Master Mike Haught compares this concept to a “virtuoso,” a virtuoso does not play a violin from reading music, but rather plays through from his soul/heart. He realizes his innate potential, this is the concept of Duk.
Moo Duk (Wude in Chinese) is a term used in Buddhist teachings that deals with two aspects; “morality of deed” and “morality of mind.” Morality of deed concerns social relations, and morality of mind is meant to cultivate the inner harmony between the emotional mind and the wisdom mind. The ultimate goal is to reach “no extremity,” where both wisdom and emotions are in harmony with each other. This concept is closely related to the Daoist concept of wu wei (action through inaction).

 

[SahBumNimRush]

Article 4 of the Bubishi talks about Moo; as in the Moo Duk Kwan.

"The true meaning of mu (martial [way], wu in Chinese, bu in Japanese) lies not in victory or defeat, but rather, in patience, sincerity, honesty, and benevolence. In spite of developing only mediocre skills, one can still enjoy immeasurable rewards and find direction through helping their fellow man. Austere conditioning and balanced nutrition are the cornerstones of mental stability. Together, this combination will foster and support vigorous ki energy. The innermost secrets of martial arts emerge when a vigorous ki is developed through dedicated training.
Understanding how personal achievements are made possible through diligent daily training, martial arts must be recognized as a lifelong pursuit. Without warning, almost as if by magic, one’s ki will surface, compelling one to stay in touch with nature.
There are many signs and lessons that must not be overlooked along the unyielding path of martial arts. Most make themselves known within the first few years of training. Patience and perseverance are seen as two of the biggest stumbling blocks for most disciples.
Lacking confidence about self-protection is the mind’s subliminal message to the body that more training is necessary to overcome fear. Indomitable fortitude illuminates the darkness of fear. At a glance, others will recognize this inner strength. Regardless of one’s punching power or the stability of their posture, martial arts can be an effective deterrent against unwarranted aggression.
One can overcome an opponent’s dominance and thwart others’ oppressive behavior through martial arts training. Be a person of dignified behavior, recognized for kindness and consideration of others less fortunate. Managing animosity calmly and impartially will establish a reputation with which a peaceful and happy life will be enjoyed.
However, beware, as the same laws, both good and bad, apply to all. If the power of martial arts is misused, misfortune is sure to occur. Enemies will be quick to target those who are easily lured by the wrath of others. Their slander can ruin a reputation and result in having one’s station in life lowered. Do not forget the old saying, “Enemies are easily made and often decide the fate of wrong-doers who take pleasure in impertinence.”
The following philosophy has also been handed down by the ancient masters and should be considered carefully. Nothing is more important than one’s patience and consideration as practiced in daily life. Live in the “here and now,” and do not be distracted by the ways of the world. If you rush, your path will be narrow, but by keeping one step back, the way will be wide. Simplicity is more desirable in the end. Write down what you have learned and study the wisdom of those who have come before you."

 

[SahBumNimRush]

A well-rounded personality can be realized only if the spirit is right. Courtesy and respect, modesty and loyalty, cooperation and integrity, and generosity and firmness, are simultaneously the source and reward of this art. In short, the practiced skill becomes a way of life. Above and beyond all goals in Tae Kwon Do is the ultimate goal of self-improvement. The aim of the trainee is perfection. By improving himself/herself, he/she improves humankind. They develop the ability continuously to reach for the stars morally, physically, intellectually, without undue tension or wasted energy. To be put it simply, their training in Tae Kwon Do makes them a model to their peers.

 

[puunui]

At the same time, I would not have wanted to meet, say, Master Funakoshi, in a dark alley. If he had not be studying a full “martial art,” he would have been nothing more than a very dangerous, highly skilled street thug.

I would have loved to have met FUNAKOSHI Gichin Sensei, or his son Yoshitaka Sensei, in a dark alley, or anyplace else. Because if I had, we would have walked out of the alley and gone somewhere to hopefully have an enjoyable and enlightening conversation.

 

[puunui]

Personal growth does not come from blind acceptance of someone else's philosophy. We may learn from others' philosophies, but we must experience our own.

I disagree. Unless or until you blindly accept the philosophy of the art that you study, then you will never truly understand that art's philosophy, and failing that, you cannot truly experience your own philosophy within that particular art.

 

[lifespantkd]

I would have loved to have met FUNAKOSHI Gichin Sensei, or his son Yoshitaka Sensei, in a dark alley, or anyplace else. Because if I had, we would have walked out of the alley and gone somewhere to hopefully have an enjoyable and enlightening conversation.

I would have loved to have a conversation with him, too! I meant that I would not have wanted to meet him in a dark alley if he had not been studying a full martial art. : )

Cynthia

 

[lifespantkd]

I disagree. Unless or until you blindly accept the philosophy of the art that you study, then you will never truly understand that art's philosophy, and failing that, you cannot truly experience your own philosophy within that particular art.

I find this perspective very interesting. It brought two general thoughts to mind:

1) The Buddha encouraged questioning even of what he taught. And, Buddhist philosophy has greatly influenced the philosophy underlying Taekwondo.

2) Your comments remind me of the concept of cultural competence. It is very difficult and requires extraordinary experiences for anyone to learn to truly understand another culture well enough to be able to "switch cultural shoes" so that they can view and experience encounters and events completely from the standpoint of the other culture, that is become culturally competent in that other culture. Truly learning the philosophy of an art which is solidly grounded in another culture requires moving toward cultural competence in that other culture. Based on my studies and experience as a cross cultural researcher and counselor and as someone who has lived biculturally and bilingually for over 25 years, I don't think that moving toward cultural competence in another culture can be successfully engaged in without a great deal of questioning--of the other culture as well as of one's own.

Perhaps you are viewing the issue more regarding outcome and I am viewing the issue more regarding the process of moving toward an outcome?

Cynthia

 

[puunui]

I find this perspective very interesting. It brought two general thoughts to mind:

1) The Buddha encouraged questioning even of what he taught. And, Buddhist philosophy has greatly influenced the philosophy underlying Taekwondo.

2) Your comments remind me of the concept of cultural competence. It is very difficult and requires extraordinary experiences for anyone to learn to truly understand another culture well enough to be able to "switch cultural shoes" so that they can view and experience encounters and events completely from the standpoint of the other culture, that is become culturally competent in that other culture. Truly learning the philosophy of an art which is solidly grounded in another culture requires moving toward cultural competence in that other culture. Based on my studies and experience as a cross cultural researcher and counselor and as someone who has lived biculturally and bilingually for over 25 years, I don't think that moving toward cultural competence in another culture can be successfully engaged in without a great deal of questioning--of the other culture as well as of one's own.

Perhaps you are viewing the issue more regarding outcome and I am viewing the issue more regarding the process of moving toward an outcome?

Cynthia

I don't know. I will say that I believe in questioning, but rather than contrary type questioning or questioning authority type questioning, I ask questions such as: what does this mean? how does this fit in the big scheme of things? does this comport with the culture of the thing being studied? I ask these questions so that I can understand it both from my own perspective as well as the perspective of the other culture, which in this case is Korean culture. And I do not believe that you can completely understand the other culture without delving into it blindly accepting that culture, meaning no judgments about right or wrong from my perspective. That tends to waste time and create barriers to understanding, and I am not into wasting time, because time is all we really have.

 

[lifespantkd]

I don't know. I will say that I believe in questioning, but rather than contrary type questioning or questioning authority type questioning, I ask questions such as: what does this mean? how does this fit in the big scheme of things? does this comport with the culture of the thing being studied? I ask these questions so that I can understand it both from my own perspective as well as the perspective of the other culture, which in this case is Korean culture. And I do not believe that you can completely understand the other culture without delving into it blindly accepting that culture, meaning no judgments about right or wrong from my perspective. That tends to waste time and create barriers to understanding, and I am not into wasting time, because time is all we really have.

For me, questioning--by that I mean a sincere interest in understanding something better--is the first step of learning.

And, from what I understand of your words, we are both talking about developing cultural competence.

Cynthia

 

[puunui]

And, from what I understand of your words, we are both talking about developing cultural competence.

Al will tell you that he and I are like cameleons who adapt to whatever cultural situation we are in. When in a korean martial arts situation with a room full of seniors, we instantly display the best korean cultural perspective that we can muster. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. The difficult part is knowing what the Romans do, and why, which I guess you term cultural competence. It's funny but sometimes I feel like there is almost a direct correlation between one's place on the journey and one's korean cultural competence, for non-korean practitioners. It is almost as if the two go hand in hand. I am sure it is the same way for japanese, okinawan, filipino, brazilian or other martial arts, that those further down the road have a better understanding of the culture. Not always, but as a general rule. I also feel that those who utterly reject the korean cultural aspects of the korean martial arts have a more difficult time at it. Act a certain way, and doors magically open. Act another way, and those same doors remain locked, no matter how angry you get and no matter how hard you pound on that door. Indiana Jones always found the treasure because he first started by deeply understanding the culture upon which the treasure was created. He understood and respected that culture and history, and in doing so, succeeded where others failed. The martial arts are no different.

 

[lifespantkd]

....It's funny but sometimes I feel like there is almost a direct correlation between one's place on the journey and one's korean cultural competence, for non-korean practitioners. It is almost as if the two go hand in hand....Act a certain way, and doors magically open. Act another way, and those same doors remain locked, no matter how angry you get and no matter how hard you pound on that door. Indiana Jones always found the treasure because he first started by deeply understanding the culture upon which the treasure was created. He understood and respected that culture and history, and in doing so, succeeded where others failed. The martial arts are no different.

As a Kukkiwon 2nd dan, I have barely begun this journey. I have not had the privilege of having opportunities to personally experience Taekwondo in the context of Korean culture with which to support what you're saying. However, it matches perfectly with what I know about the power of cultural competence when interacting with other cultures, in general, and with the other culture in which I have a high degree of cultural competence. The more culturally competent we are (and the process of becoming so is long and difficult), the more trusted and respectful we are perceived to be by members of the other culture. In short, learning to function reasonably well in the other culture--showing our respect of that culture by learning the language, customs, and worldview of its members--opens hearts. The more collectivistic a culture, the more critical it is to first develop relationships. We can't develop relationships without having some degree of cultural competence. The more important relationships are in the other culture (i.e., the more collectivistic the culture is), the more cultural competence we need to function well within it. Korean culture is highly collectivistic. So, your analysis of your experience makes perfect sense.

Cynthia

 

[mastercole]

Al will tell you that he and I are like cameleons who adapt to whatever cultural situation we are in. When in a korean martial arts situation with a room full of seniors, we instantly display the best korean cultural perspective that we can muster. When in Rome, do as the Romans do. The difficult part is knowing what the Romans do, and why, which I guess you term cultural competence. It's funny but sometimes I feel like there is almost a direct correlation between one's place on the journey and one's korean cultural competence, for non-korean practitioners. It is almost as if the two go hand in hand. I am sure it is the same way for japanese, okinawan, filipino, brazilian or other martial arts, that those further down the road have a better understanding of the culture. Not always, but as a general rule. I also feel that those who utterly reject the korean cultural aspects of the korean martial arts have a more difficult time at it. Act a certain way, and doors magically open. Act another way, and those same doors remain locked, no matter how angry you get and no matter how hard you pound on that door. Indiana Jones always found the treasure because he first started by deeply understanding the culture upon which the treasure was created. He understood and respected that culture and history, and in doing so, succeeded where others failed. The martial arts are no different.

This has certainly been an interesting discussion to read. Here is my take on this, and it's simple.

I grew up in possibly the most culturally diverse place in America (at that time). Because of that, I love different cultures and languages, I love learning about them (and the people), and when possible I enjoy being a small part of their experience. It's amazing what you can learn as a chameleon.

To me, without the Korean people, juniors, peers and seniors, there would be no Taekwondo. 99.9% of my relationships in Taekwondo (and Taekkyon) are with Korean people. Korean people are why I am still involved.

Example, when my Korean friends left the USTU/USAT, so did I. I won't come back unless they return. And if they never return, I don't care, I will still see them all the time anyway like I have been all along.

 

[puunui]

Example, when my Korean friends left the USTU/USAT, so did I. I won't come back unless they return. And if they never return, I don't care, I will still see them all the time anyway like I have been all along.

Once this USOC Hearing Panel stuff is resolved, and new leadership is in place at USAT, there is a plan to bring back your Korean friends. 2012 and 2013 promise to be very exciting years for taekwondo, in the US and worldwide.

 

[StudentCarl]

Once this USOC Hearing Panel stuff is resolved, and new leadership is in place at USAT, there is a plan to bring back your Korean friends. 2012 and 2013 promise to be very exciting years for taekwondo, in the US and worldwide.

From the most junior end of the totem pole, I truly hope you are right.
Carl

 

[sopraisso]

I agree that keeping an open mind is wise--as it is in other areas of life.

How much of your learning of the philosophical aspects of Taekwondo happened through learning from someone else (your teacher, publications, ....)? Any favorite resources? Is philosophy talked about much in class? In one-on-one interactions with your teacher? Are many other students in your school interested in the philosophy, too, or are you unique there?

Thank you very much for sharing your thoughts!

Cynthia

Hey, Cynthia!

Forgive me for taking so long to reply.
Answering your questions:
- Most of what I could've learned about "philosophical aspects of taekwondo" have come from internet readings (a lot here in MT forums).
- I have no current favorite resources, but the taoist teachings seem my personal inclinations (although I try not to be blinded by that). Anyway, now I remember of Sun Tzu's The Art Of War and I believe it was a really valuable reading, with straight relations to taekwondo ideas (both related to real combat and to defeating problems in life).
- Unfortunately, I haven't experienced much philosophical discussions in my dojang. Sometimes our GM talks about motivational and moral aspects, but it seems more like personal thoughts of him (wich are still valid and useful anyway). There are some students interested in deeper and more theoretical aspects (I talked about it sometimes and they were interested). Unfortunately, I'm the only who's come to search about it.

I believe if there were a systematic discussion about this subject in our classes (like once or twice a month, or for short periods once a week) the students would really be interested. I also believe this helps motivating the student to practicing the martial art and make it feel meaningful to the student's mind.

I don't see a martial art only as a self-defense system, although I believe the self-defense aspect is imperative. Anyway, I even believe the philosophical aspects can make the practitioner a better fighter, giving the correct mindset and showing how to deal with the presented challanges.

Just to make an example of what I believe is relations between taoist ideas and taekwondo fighting aspects: I only stopped with excessive tension in muscles when I thought of yin (or um) and yang -- I had to use both tension AND relaxation. My breathing has become more correct, too. For short: the comprehension that taekwondo deals not only with hard and fast, but also with soft (relaxed) and slow (or moderate, controlled).

I know I'm a little late, but happy new year Cynthia and everyone!

EDIT:
Hey, I forgot to talk about one thing I believe is important. I usually write "taekwondo", but I like writing "taekwon-do", making explicit that the "do" part is as important as the physical part ("foot" and "hand"). Today, I view martial arts like taekwondo as a real way of life. So to me it's something we don't practice only inside of the dojang, but everywhere and all the time (I believe most here think similarly). It shows a radical addition to the idea of a strict fighting system. I'd like to point out, by the way, that many early japanese martial arts were named "jutsu", that would mean more like "fighting system", and they changed to "do" exactly because they have become more than that, to become a way of life (example: aikijutsu/aikido, jujutsu/judo, kenjutsu/kendo). So I believe the "way of life" aspect should be seen as inherent in taekwondo.

 

[lifespantkd]

Hey, Cynthia!

Forgive me for taking so long to reply.
Answering your questions:
- Most of what I could've learned about "philosophical aspects of taekwondo" have come from internet readings (a lot here in MT forums).
- I have no current favorite resources, but the taoist teachings seem my personal inclinations (although I try not to be blinded by that). Anyway, now I remember of Sun Tzu's The Art Of War and I believe it was a really valuable reading, with straight relations to taekwondo ideas (both related to real combat and to defeating problems in life).
- Unfortunately, I haven't experienced much philosophical discussions in my dojang. Sometimes our GM talks about motivational and moral aspects, but it seems more like personal thoughts of him (wich are still valid and useful anyway). There are some students interested in deeper and more theoretical aspects (I talked about it sometimes and they were interested). Unfortunately, I'm the only who's come to search about it.

I believe if there were a systematic discussion about this subject in our classes (like once or twice a month, or for short periods once a week) the students would really be interested. I also believe this helps motivating the student to practicing the martial art and make it feel meaningful to the student's mind.

I don't see a martial art only as a self-defense system, although I believe the self-defense aspect is imperative. Anyway, I even believe the philosophical aspects can make the practitioner a better fighter, giving the correct mindset and showing how to deal with the presented challanges.

Just to make an example of what I believe is relations between taoist ideas and taekwondo fighting aspects: I only stopped with excessive tension in muscles when I thought of yin (or um) and yang -- I had to use both tension AND relaxation. My breathing has become more correct, too. For short: the comprehension that taekwondo deals not only with hard and fast, but also with soft (relaxed) and slow (or moderate, controlled).

I know I'm a little late, but happy new year Cynthia and everyone!

EDIT:
Hey, I forgot to talk about one thing I believe is important. I usually write "taekwondo", but I like writing "taekwon-do", making explicit that the "do" part is as important as the physical part ("foot" and "hand"). Today, I view martial arts like taekwondo as a real way of life. So to me it's something we don't practice only inside of the dojang, but everywhere and all the time (I believe most here think similarly). It shows a radical addition to the idea of a strict fighting system. I'd like to point out, by the way, that many early japanese martial arts were named "jutsu", that would mean more like "fighting system", and they changed to "do" exactly because they have become more than that, to become a way of life (example: aikijutsu/aikido, jujutsu/judo, kenjutsu/kendo). So I believe the "way of life" aspect should be seen as inherent in taekwondo.

Thank you for sharing your thoughts and experience! I don't find your reply late at all, given that I hope that more people will still contribute to this thread. I especially appreciate your thoughts about how and why to share the philosophical/spiritual aspects of Taekwondo with students and about the application of philosophy in practice (e.g., your comments on um/yang).

Some of my favorite resources to better understand the philosophical/spiritual aspects of Taekwondo include:

1. The Tao Te Ching
2. The I Ching
3. What the Buddha Taught
4. Background Readings in Tae Kwon Do and Martial Arts (which I'm currently in the middle of reading for the first time)
5. Master Funakoshi's writings about Karate Do

That list is subject to change because I research something related to Taekwondo each day. I agree that there is much in The Art of War that can be related to Taekwondo and to coping with the challenges of life.

I'd be interested in your thoughts (and those of others) about teaching philosophy to students in the context of their development--that is, "what to teach when," given that people's understanding, motivation for practice, and capabilities vary both due to their unique contexts as well as where they are on the path of learning Taekwondo.

Happy New Year to you, too!

Cynthia

 

[puunui]

If you are a kukki taekwondo practitioner, then the first thing to do is read all of the official publications, including but not limited to the kukkiwon textbook, every version if possible.

 

[lifespantkd]

If you are a kukki taekwondo practitioner, then the first thing to do is read all of the official publications, including but not limited to the kukkiwon textbook, every version if possible.

Agreed. Unfortunately, some materials are more accessible/affordable (e.g., free from the local public library) than others. So, the process of acquisition is a slow and sometimes rather out-of-order one!

Cynthia

 

[puunui]

Agreed. Unfortunately, some materials are more accessible/affordable (e.g., free from the local public library) than others. So, the process of acquisition is a slow and sometimes rather out-of-order one!

Don't let that stop you. Where there is a will there is a way.