I'd say he made his living as a martial artist. Because doing theatrical martial arts for a movie is still doing martial arts. And nobody put him in a movie for his acting ability like Anthony Hopkins; they put him in movies for his side kicks and backfists.
More Than Just A Hobby
- Thread starter PhotonGuy
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I'd say he made his living as a martial artist. Because doing theatrical martial arts for a movie is still doing martial arts. And nobody put him in a movie for his acting ability like Anthony Hopkins; they put him in movies for his side kicks and backfists.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
If you do something for a living, you're not an amateur. Otherwise, you are. It seems pretty simple.
This is completely independent of whether you are any of the following: skilled, qualified, competent, effective, deadly, experienced, or well trained. You can be none of these, and be a professional. You can be all of these and be a hobbyist.
This is completely independent of whether you are any of the following: skilled, qualified, competent, effective, deadly, experienced, or well trained. You can be none of these, and be a professional. You can be all of these and be a hobbyist.
Steve
Mostly Harmless
He wasn't famous for his acting... have you guys seen his movies recently?
Cephalopod
Green Belt
For me, the thing that distiguishes MA from being "just a hobby" is how it spills over into other aspects of my life.
For example, principles of movement such as core engagement and elbow positioning affect the way that I get in and out of my car, the way that I put away dishes in the kitchen. It used to be deliberate but over time it becomes more just the way I move.
And that's not even touching on the psychological benefits of a calmed mind.
Building model warships and breeding ferrets might be awesome hobbies but I doubt they would have much of an effect on the way I carry lumber or resolve conflicts at work.
For example, principles of movement such as core engagement and elbow positioning affect the way that I get in and out of my car, the way that I put away dishes in the kitchen. It used to be deliberate but over time it becomes more just the way I move.
And that's not even touching on the psychological benefits of a calmed mind.
Building model warships and breeding ferrets might be awesome hobbies but I doubt they would have much of an effect on the way I carry lumber or resolve conflicts at work.
But you can be an amateur but not a hobbyist. Olympians being the classic example. Full time amateur athletes living off sponsorships, not salaries or prize winnings.
Me, I'm a hobbyist. I have a full time job, I'm a parent, and I spend about four hours per week at a martial arts school and some time on my own self-training. That's firmly in hobby territory and I don't see anything wrong with that. You can REALLY enjoy a hobby and it doesn't mean it's not a hobby.
Well he specifically made a living as an actor that used martial arts in the movies he was in. So in that sense, you could say Bruce Lee was a professional actor/martial artist. Both acting and martial arts played a crucial role in what Bruce Lee did to make a living.
But rank can reflect skill. Depending on how and where you earned your rank and depending on the standards you had to meet, you will not hold rank without skill.
To you it might be a hobby but not to everybody else.
Well just because you make an income doing something doesn't mean it isn't a hobby. As you put it, you can argue how much income. I've got a cousin whose a beekeeper and he does it as a hobby. His main job was that of an electrical engineer. But he does make money from beekeeping when he sells the honey, but to him its a hobby.
No, it's really not. It's choreography, and thanks to careful camera angles, stunt doubles, multiple takes, and wire-fu, anybody can look like a martial artist.
His movies didn't use martial arts. They used choreography. Just like all movies.
I love it, I've discovered that if I go somewhere between 1-2 months without training I get really irritable, and people tell me I need to go back. So in a sense it's more than a hobby. But I also treat it like a hobby for the most part, and have no plans to go any degree professional with it.
JR 137
Grandmaster
Somehow the quote says PDG said it, but I was the one who did.
Your beekeeping cousin is a classic example of the blurry line. Just as my teacher and his wife running the dojo. Just as a guy who takes a few low level pro fights and gets paid minimally, meaning he got paid a negligible amount and would’ve fought for free anyway.
You seem a bit offended by the word hobby. Is it really that bad a word?
pgsmith
Master of Arts
It continually amazes me how so many people insist that something means one thing and one thing only. Especially in regards to the martial arts. Most of us practice martial arts that are Chinese or Japanese based. Both of those languages are context driven, meaning any word can have a different definition depending upon the context in which it is used. Pinning an exact definition on anything martial arts related is simply a good way to argue, and a waste of time in my opinion.
You want to say that it's more than a hobby for you? Go for it. Nothing that you define impacts me in any way. Personally, it's more than a hobby to me also. I like think of my martial arts training as more of a prostitute that I pay to entertain and relax me.
You want to say that it's more than a hobby for you? Go for it. Nothing that you define impacts me in any way. Personally, it's more than a hobby to me also. I like think of my martial arts training as more of a prostitute that I pay to entertain and relax me.
I think that's a no-true-Scotsman fallacy. Obviously theatrical performance is different than sport competition, which is different from training specifically directed at street combat. But stage combat still falls under the umbrella of "fencing" just like Olympic fencing and classical fencing do. Likewise, movie-fu and contemporary wushu still fall under the umbrella of "martial arts," as that term is commonly used, along with combat sports and self-defense training.
The phrase "martial arts movie" is in common usage and we all know what it means; it's a movie starring someone like Bruce Lee, Chuck Norris, JCVD, or Jet Li, featuring lots of choreographed hand-to-hand fight scenes. If we defined "martial arts" as narrowly as you, the term would be an oxymoron and nobody would ever use it...but we all know what the term "martial arts movie" means.
You can say "what contemporary wushu folks is very different from what I do and has a very different objective"--and that's certainly true--without engaging in a no-true-scotsman argument of saying "they're not doing martial arts and they're not martial artists."
Headhunter
Senior Master
To be fair he did spend more of his time as a martial art teacher. For most of his time he was a teacher first with schools then teaching celebrities. It was really only in the last few years of his life that he was a full time actor making serious money from it. So I'd say he made more of a living as a martial artist
Headhunter
Senior Master
Actually he was a child actor before he even started martial arts so if he'd stayed in Hong Kong he still could've been a pretty big actor in China
D
Deleted member 39746
Guest
I would dispute and say, if you are reliant on that as a job, its no longer a hobby as its not about recreation or fun its about getting money. example, if you rely on martial arts to be a stuntman for fighting scenes, its about what the director wants out of the scene and you provide or get fired.
(this applies to pretty much anything, when you rely on it to get money its no longer a hobby its a business/job)
If somone said that all ready sorry.
(this applies to pretty much anything, when you rely on it to get money its no longer a hobby its a business/job)
If somone said that all ready sorry.
JR 137
Grandmaster
What did he do beyond I think it was a Burger King commercial when he was single digits years old? I’m not being sarcastic, I’m honestly asking.
Headhunter
Senior Master
He did loads. I've never seen them and they probably weren't starring roles and frankly probably weren't very good but he was in a lot. This is copied direct from Wikipedia so formats a bit but this is everything he did up until he left Hong Kong
1946 The Birth of Mankind 人类的诞生
1948 Wealth is Like a Dream 富貴浮雲
1949 Sai See in the Dream 夢裡西施 Yam Lee
1950 The Kid 細路祥 Kid Cheung a.k.a. My Son, A Chung. Available on region 1, English-subtitled DVD from Cinema Epoch.
1951 Infancy 人之初 Ngau
1953 A Myriad Homes 千萬人家
Blame it on Father 父之過 a.k.a. Father's Fault
The Guiding Light 苦海明燈 Son as teenager Available on region 1, English-subtitled DVD from Cinema Epoch.
A Mother's Tears 慈母淚
In the Face of Demolition 危樓春曉
1955 An Orphan's Tragedy 孤星血淚 Frank Wong (child) Available on region 1, English-subtitled DVD from Cinema Epoch.
Orphan's Song 孤兒行
Love 愛
Love Part 2 愛(下集)
We Owe It to Our Children 兒女債
1956 The Wise Guys Who Fool Around 詐痲納福
Too Late For Divorce 早知當初我唔嫁
1957 The Thunderstorm 雷雨 Chow Chung Based on the play Lei Yu by Cao Yu
1960 The Orphan 人海孤鴻 Sam
Im not offended at all by the word hobby. I've got hobbies myself. Some people do martial arts as a hobby. What I disagree with is when people refer to the martial arts exclusively as a hobby. For some martial arts is a hobby, for others its much more.
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