MMA would never work in a real fight.

[Tez3]

Hey, I have no problem with your sarcasm as I was returning them just the same. My post was directed to the Legionary guy who took it upon himself in trying to moderate, with extreme bias.

But the Legionary is legendary!

I'm actually honoured he posted because he doesn't that often, when he does though it's very pithy and down to earth ( that's not sarcasm, it's understatement!) It's like being noticed by wrestling royalty.......:ultracool

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Real Fight Equation;

aPA + aPB = 1L/1W
aggitated Person A vs aggitated Person B = 1Loser/1Winner

The certain thing about a real fight is two people in physical opposition, one becoming the victor, the other, the loser

For the most part I've enjoyed just reading all these posts, but reread it today and felt like I had to address this statement, even though by now it's a bit offtopic. A fight does NOT always have a clear winner or loser. yes, a lot of the time it does. But if I break your nose, and you dont care, due to adrenaline and continue, knocking me out or breaking my arm at some point, neither of us is really a 'winner'. if i beat the s*** out of you, then get arrested, neither of us is a winner. If the fight is broken up by naPC (non-agitated Person C), who is fully capable of kicking both our asses, or has some sort of weapon, or is involved in law enforcement, then since neither of us had time to hurt each other, there is no winner or loser. (admittedly, that last way isn't likely, especially if we're vaPA and vaPB (very agitated Person A and B)

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Hey, I have no problem with your sarcasm as I was returning them just the same. My post was directed to the Legionary guy who took it upon himself in trying to moderate, with extreme bias.

Why don't we all take a deep breath here?

 

[The Last Legionary]

Ok but have you seen what Tez3 have been posting towards me? Or do these rules not apply to her?

Hey, I have no problem with your sarcasm as I was returning them just the same. My post was directed to the Legionary guy who took it upon himself in trying to moderate, with extreme bias.

You're new here kid and there's already a few mod notes in play, so I'll be nice.
1: I was just pointing out the rules that you already read. You did read them right? Because it asks if you did when you signed up and I'd hate to know you lied.
2: I have no bias. I just have a low tolerance for stupid. Stupid and chickens. Hate them
3: I wasn't moderating, though I'm much more knowledgable than you about how that works, having done that and been one of the guys who wrote said rules. You did read them right? The one outlawing chicken hats was one of mine you know.
4: If you had read the rules, you would know that if you were having a problem with another member the correct procedure would be to report them and let the staff sort it out, not be an *** about things. If you'd read the rules that is.
5: Bit of advice: Read The Rules.

Have a nice day. Oh look, I'm all out of bubblegum again. Ask me why I'm not wearing any underpants. Go on. Ask. Oh never mind, I'll tell you anyway. It's because they haven't invented the pants that can take the job on. Did I mention you should read the rules? There's a theme here. I can do this all night, but Nurse McCreedy is here with my meds and restraints so until we chat again kid, read the rules. Buybuy!

We now return to the discussion about if cuddling will work in a fight.

 

[Cyriacus]

We now return to the discussion about if cuddling will work in a fight.

A cuddle is a good setup for double over or under hooks, followed by a suplex.

 

[MJS]

Hi, I never said kata wouldn't work. Where did you get that from? Kata is like shadowboxing. Kata w/o actual sparring hard can work and is better than nothing. But if that's all you have, then it's probably going to work badly in a fight vs. someone with actual sparring & fight experience. If all he's got is kata too, then you're good to go.

I'd agree with that, on the assumption that the student A) understands the moves in the kata, B) and actually works them on a body. I say this, because many times, the students never learn the meaning behind the moves in kata, so they just go thru the moves, without really understanding what they're doing.

And sparring can range from touch sparring all the way to sparring for full knockouts. What's good about MMA gyms is that there's a lot more sparring and hard sparring sessions for full KO's than at your TMA schools. Especially when preparing for upcoming fights.

Sad but true. However, there are some TMA schools out there, that do have some hard, full contact sparring sessions.

Whoever said this? Sidekicks certainly do work in Kickboxing, Muay Thai, MMA, etc.

I agree with this, however, IMO, some things may tend to work better for some than others.

Well of course, but the main difference being, MMA is geared towards fighting for real, with actual fights. Many TMA schools also fight in MMA tournaments, KB, WKA, etc. But in general they don't participate in tourneys that are as brutal as MMA. MMA gyms just produces more fighters.

However, there are also many things that the average MMA school does not cover, so while I'd say the majority of MMA fighters would stand a much better chance in a street fight, than someone from the average TMA dojo, as I said, there are things that aren't worked on.

No, MMA in early UFC's was a lot about the ground game where BJJ dominated. Most people never saw that back then. This is why it made BJJ so popular. Now that MMA has evolved, the audience have got bored of grappling for 2+ hours. Dana White is giving fighters more incentives to keep it standing. He always states that he wants to see exciting fights w/spectacular finishes. He doesn't come out and say to keep it standing, but the fighters understands that if they want to get fights in the UFC and get paid, this is where the UFC currently is situated.

True. And it didn't take long for people to catch onto what the BJJ guys were doing. Now, you tend to see more stand up and less grappling.

 

[MJS]

.

What do you think a choke hold is? It's a death move.

Really? So everyone that gets choked dies? Everyone that chokes someone is doing so, with the intent to kill?

 

[MJS]

Work on your reading comprehension first, before getting all excited. Thanks.

Of course, please keep in mind, that we're reading, not physically hearing whats being said here, therefore, its very possible for misunderstandings to happen. Lets try to keep the thread civil without taking shots at each other.

 

[MJS]

It depends. But needing "4 minutes" of constantly holding onto the blood choke after someone already went unconscious is not correct. It's much less than that.

This guy passes out in under 5 seconds.

While here:

http://www.wdsu.com/Sheriff-Man-Die...Him/-/9854144/10973378/-/ejethtz/-/index.html

this 110 lbs, 14 year old kid accidentally kills a 220 lbs, 24 year old adult with a rear naked choke that was held for only 30-40 seconds (according to eye witnesses).

Well, that article says it all..lol. The 14yr old was watching pro wrestling, then tried out a move. Translated: The kid sounds like he had zero or minumal training, had no clue what he was doing, and applied the choke incorrectly.

 

[MJS]

Ok but have you seen what Tez3 have been posting towards me? Or do these rules not apply to her?

The rules apply to everyone here. As I said, why dont we return to the topic, instead of taking shots at each other.

 

[Aiki Lee]

The problem with being choked is that at first it's very uncomfortable and hurting, so you fight with all of your might....but as the blood flow lessens, you actually become more relaxed and it actually starts feeling good....like you're going into a dreamy state of consciousness. Luckily, I know that I may get brain damage or even die, so I muster up the will to tap before passing out. Once let go, it feels like you just woke up from a nice dream and everything is fine.

Some guy on this thread said that it would take "4 minutes" after losing consciousness to die or even sustain permanent brain damage. This is absolutely wrong. Most schools adopt the "10 seconds" rule. Once you get the choke in, you let go if your partner doesn't tap in 10 seconds.

I've been choked out before by one of my sensei and I wouldn't describe it as "feeling good", more like a goddamn nightmare. I will agree that it feels kind of dream-like but that was more after he released it. Good experience though.

 

[Steve]

Are we talkingabout a carotid choke or an air choke?

A carotid choke isnt uncomfortable, but I wouldn't call it relaxing either. Its not uncommon for people to dream when out from a blood choke.

Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2

 

[Aiki Lee]

I'm pretty sure we are discussing the carotid choke.

 

[Tez3]

It's a good rule for training that chokes should only be on for 10 secs or so, it doesn't need to be on for long for people to learn what the technique is about however that doesn't mean it only takes just over 10 secs for it to kill or cause brain damage, it means instructors are being sensible and giving it a good safety margin, it doesn't make Dirty Dog wrong either on the time it takes to kill.
On a little side note, I don't get 'agitated' by posts, only one when being accused of killing premature babies ever got me upset as I'd lost a baby of my own, other than that it's the internet, words happen

 

[Mz1]

You're new here kid and there's already a few mod notes in play, so I'll be nice.
1: I was just pointing out the rules that you already read. You did read them right? Because it asks if you did when you signed up and I'd hate to know you lied.
2: I have no bias. I just have a low tolerance for stupid. Stupid and chickens. Hate them
3: I wasn't moderating, though I'm much more knowledgable than you about how that works, having done that and been one of the guys who wrote said rules. You did read them right? The one outlawing chicken hats was one of mine you know.
4: If you had read the rules, you would know that if you were having a problem with another member the correct procedure would be to report them and let the staff sort it out, not be an *** about things. If you'd read the rules that is.
5: Bit of advice: Read The Rules.

Have a nice day. Oh look, I'm all out of bubblegum again. Ask me why I'm not wearing any underpants. Go on. Ask. Oh never mind, I'll tell you anyway. It's because they haven't invented the pants that can take the job on. Did I mention you should read the rules? There's a theme here. I can do this all night, but Nurse McCreedy is here with my meds and restraints so until we chat again kid, read the rules. Buybuy!

We now return to the discussion about if cuddling will work in a fight.

I wasn't having any problems with Tez3. We were just going back and forth with some disagreements. This is pretty common on forums.

"2: I have no bias. I just have a low tolerance for stupid. Stupid and chickens. Hate them "

Seems like you have ways of getting around the rules, or so you think, that are clever. Nice one old-timer.

 

[Mz1]

Really? So everyone that gets choked dies? Everyone that chokes someone is doing so, with the intent to kill?

My point is that, during a competition match....both equally match competitors are going all out, 100% in everything to win. There's no difference in the amount of force being used in trying to knock someone the F out with punches, kicks, elbows, knees, etc. in the cage compared to a street fight....prison fight....husband catching his wife in bed with another man and now is trying to kill him, etc.

Just that in the cage, there's a Referee, corner throwing in the towel, tapout, etc... to stop the fight once someone is KO'ed, about to get choked into the state of unconsciousness, arm broken, etc... while on the streets, in prison or the above bedroom....it can go on until someone dies. But the level of brutality that led up to this point of being KO'ed or serious injuries or near death....is no different than in the cage.

So a choke in the cage that's locked in, is still cranked with all the power that the choker possesses to cause maximum damage until he's stopped.

 

[Mz1]

Well, that article says it all..lol. The 14yr old was watching pro wrestling, then tried out a move. Translated: The kid sounds like he had zero or minumal training, had no clue what he was doing, and applied the choke incorrectly.

I disagree....this kid killed a full grown adult in 30-40 seconds with a blood choke....which means that he was pretty good at it. He probably didn't know what to look for in terms of the guy passing out or about to die. Another guy on this thread tried to say that it takes "4 minutes" after someone went unconscious to kill them...which can't be right.

I personally, don't know how long it takes, but wouldn't want to find out. Many variables comes into play (ie. size, strength, endurance, etc.). I know that I can make someone pass out in about 10-15 seconds, but during sparring, I usually let go or ease up at around the 10 second mark after knowing that my choke was locked in tight...as there's no Ref there supervising. This gives them a chance to tapout, even though sometimes they continue to fight by taking my goodwill as a free pass out of a choke.

It's just not that easy, in the heat of battle, to know if someone is passing out from an RNC.

 

[Mz1]

I've been choked out before by one of my sensei and I wouldn't describe it as "feeling good", more like a goddamn nightmare. I will agree that it feels kind of dream-like but that was more after he released it. Good experience though.

Yes it's painful and uncomfortable in the beginning, but as you're about to pass out, the brain is shutting down. You will gradually stop feeling this pain and discomfort as blood flow is being cut off to your brain.

But are you talking about a blood choke or an air choke?

If you've only been choked once or twice, as you said "by one of (your) sensei", then maybe you're not used to it and tapped out early during the pain & discomfort stage. I've trained in MMA for about 6 years and in BJJ, we spar every class for 30-45 minutes at 80-100% power. I've been choked out a lot. Nearing unconsciousness, it's always very serene and peaceful.

 

[Aiki Lee]

I volunteered by choked out by one of the senior instructors. I did so because we needed people to understand what happens to the human body when blood flow is cut off. He RNC'd me properly and I went out. It was extremely uncomfortable and then ...nothing. Not a good feeling, just kind of nothing as I went out. He then revived me.

 

[MJS]

My point is that, during a competition match....both equally match competitors are going all out, 100% in everything to win. There's no difference in the amount of force being used in trying to knock someone the F out with punches, kicks, elbows, knees, etc. in the cage compared to a street fight....prison fight....husband catching his wife in bed with another man and now is trying to kill him, etc.

Just that in the cage, there's a Referee, corner throwing in the towel, tapout, etc... to stop the fight once someone is KO'ed, about to get choked into the state of unconsciousness, arm broken, etc... while on the streets, in prison or the above bedroom....it can go on until someone dies. But the level of brutality that led up to this point of being KO'ed or serious injuries or near death....is no different than in the cage.

So a choke in the cage that's locked in, is still cranked with all the power that the choker possesses to cause maximum damage until he's stopped.

Sure, I agree that the adrenaline gets pumping, however, I have to wonder how many of the UFC fighters, both past and present, actually went into the ring, with the intent to seriously hurt, maim, etc, their opponent. IMO, I think the number is not as high as one may think, due to the fact that after the fight, we often see a mutual showing of respect/concern for the fighters, etc.