Mixing arts - is this wrong?

[TigerLove]

Hi everybody!

What's up?

I have a question..

I train Hapkido and Taekwondo. I train Taekwondo as it is, since Tkd have extremely defined curicullum. I trained Hapkido also as it is (if art like Hapkido can have fully defined curriculum).

Not so long ago, i started to pull some moves from other arts, and practiced them to make them part of my Hapkido knowledge.

Usually, word is about mixing some move from other art with Hapkido move.

Example, i throw someone by the tehnique my Hapkido teacher learned me, and then instead of classic Hapkido joint lock and move, i finish it with arm bar from Jiu - Jitsu.

Or, we have the very basic defense from wrist grab. From here we do kicks, spins, throws, escapes, or mix it all together. But, i ''invented'' new move from that position, i mixed it with scissor takedown from Samba.

Further, since i trained Ninjutsu sometime, i also use some tehniques from that art, because many of them have the same principles from as tehniques in Hapkido, or if you want Teuk Gong Moo Sool, style which we train under.

I tryed it in the dojang, and realised my teacher have no nothing against that. Instead, he says that he is glad that i don't see Hapkido as closed, hard - defined art.

Later i realised, every higher rank in our dojo have some unique sort of tehniques - but also, they have the Hapkido curriculum as it is. That is what my teacher also told me - it's proper to bring and mix some new moves in my repertoar, but only if i go together with Hapkido curriculum.

My question is: is it proper??

My opinnion is yes, because we have arts like Taekwondo which have the fully defined curriculum, which is close to changes (except fights, where many fighters use moves from kickbox etc.), and arts like Hapkido which also have defined curriculum, but among that - only imagine is the end.

Your opinnions?

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hi everybody!

What's up?

I have a question..

I train Hapkido and Taekwondo. I train Taekwondo as it is, since Tkd have extremely defined curicullum. I trained Hapkido also as it is (if art like Hapkido can have fully defined curriculum).

Not so long ago, i started to pull some moves from other arts, and practiced them to make them part of my Hapkido knowledge.

Usually, word is about mixing some move from other art with Hapkido move.

Example, i throw someone by the tehnique my Hapkido teacher learned me, and then instead of classic Hapkido joint lock and move, i finish it with arm bar from Jiu - Jitsu.

Or, we have the very basic defense from wrist grab. From here we do kicks, spins, throws, escapes, or mix it all together. But, i ''invented'' new move from that position, i mixed it with scissor takedown from Samba.

Further, since i trained Ninjutsu sometime, i also use some tehniques from that art, because many of them have the same principles from as tehniques in Hapkido, or if you want Teuk Gong Moo Sool, style which we train under.

I tryed it in the dojang, and realised my teacher have no nothing against that. Instead, he says that he is glad that i don't see Hapkido as closed, hard - defined art.

Later i realised, every higher rank in our dojo have some unique sort of tehniques - but also, they have the Hapkido curriculum as it is. That is what my teacher also told me - it's proper to bring and mix some new moves in my repertoar, but only if i go together with Hapkido curriculum.

My question is: is it proper??

My opinnion is yes, because we have arts like Taekwondo which have the fully defined curriculum, which is close to changes (except fights, where many fighters use moves from kickbox etc.), and arts like Hapkido which also have defined curriculum, but among that - only imagine is the end.

Your opinnions?

They are practicaly sister arts; I see little conflict, other than the individual culture of the schools.
sean

 

[seasoned]

It sounds like your instructor is open minded, and as long as he is willing, I say go for it. As long as you stay true to your main art, it could be fun and productive to experiment.

 

[dortiz]

Everything you have described is considered Hapkido anyway. One of my teachers has one rule for Hapkido given its not a TEAM SPORT.

WIN!! : )

Dave O.

 

[l_uk3y]

Of course their is no problem in this situation. Your creating opportunities to round off your skills and will improve the effectiveness of your Hapkido as a result. Attacks can happen at different ranges and directions, by studying additional techniques you can be further prepared for it.

Just like I find my Wing Chun makes for a great short range striking system which just seems to create openings to change over into locks and take downs from my Hapkido. Or even half complete a Hapkido technique to gain a good position then go back to Wing Chun with a strike behind the knee and open back up into the strikes.

 

[Blindside]

Given Hapkido's origins it would be pretty silly to take a position and say that "mixing arts is wrong."

 

[Kumbajah]

For personal use and growth - I'm all for it. To teach a mix and call it Hapkido - I'm against it.

ex. Capoeira kicks are cool but they aren't Hapkido.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Is it wrong? No

Is it confusing? Maybe

 

[zDom]

Hapkido curriculums differ. Vastly. That said,

Not so long ago, i started to pull some moves from other arts, and practiced them to make them part of my Hapkido knowledge.

...

Example, i throw someone by the tehnique my Hapkido teacher learned me, and then instead of classic Hapkido joint lock and move, i finish it with arm bar from Jiu - Jitsu.

We have arm bars in MSK hapkido. No need for me to import one from jiu jitsu: it was done over 60 years ago by Choi.

But, i ''invented'' new move from that position, i mixed it with scissor takedown from Samba.

We have scissor takedown in MSK hapkido. Kibonsoo No. 24.


My dad (a physician) always says, "There's no need to take a multivitamin supplement if you are eating a good, balanced diet."

I don't eat a good, balanced diet so I take a daily multivitamin supplement.

If your hapkido isn't providing all the tools you need, then I guess I don't blame you for finding supplements elsewhere. If it makes you feel any better, technically they ARE included in the wider concept of hapkido even if you aren't finding them in your particular flavor of hapkido.

But, having said that, I agree with Kumb:

For personal use and growth - I'm all for it. To teach a mix and call it Hapkido - I'm against it.

ex. Capoeira kicks are cool but they aren't Hapkido.

Do what you must to make sure your personal fighting toolbox has everything you need — but if/when you get to the point on your path where are you teaching, you owe it to your hapkido heritage to make crystal clear to your students what IS and what is NOT part of your hapkido curriculum, if you choose to share non-curriculum material (in my opinion).


As for me? Apparently I am blessed with a hapkido style that is providing a "balanced diet" — so I reckon I won't be needing any supplements

 

[TigerLove]

@Zdom

You are right - in wider aspect Hapkido probably holds anything i would think off, under condition it makes some sense.

Our Grandmaster, which is Hapkido 6. dan, says there are about 5000 tehniques in Hapkido - so it would be really hard to teach them all as part of one school's curriculum, but also it's hard to ''invent'' some move that doesn't belong to those 5000 moves of Hapkido.

Great example of this is what you said: ''No need for me to import one from jiu jitsu: it was done over 60 years ago by Choi.''

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Hi everybody!

What's up?

I have a question..

I train Hapkido and Taekwondo. I train Taekwondo as it is, since Tkd have extremely defined curicullum. I trained Hapkido also as it is (if art like Hapkido can have fully defined curriculum).

Not so long ago, i started to pull some moves from other arts, and practiced them to make them part of my Hapkido knowledge.

Usually, word is about mixing some move from other art with Hapkido move.

Example, i throw someone by the tehnique my Hapkido teacher learned me, and then instead of classic Hapkido joint lock and move, i finish it with arm bar from Jiu - Jitsu.

Or, we have the very basic defense from wrist grab. From here we do kicks, spins, throws, escapes, or mix it all together. But, i ''invented'' new move from that position, i mixed it with scissor takedown from Samba.

Further, since i trained Ninjutsu sometime, i also use some tehniques from that art, because many of them have the same principles from as tehniques in Hapkido, or if you want Teuk Gong Moo Sool, style which we train under.

I tryed it in the dojang, and realised my teacher have no nothing against that. Instead, he says that he is glad that i don't see Hapkido as closed, hard - defined art.

Later i realised, every higher rank in our dojo have some unique sort of tehniques - but also, they have the Hapkido curriculum as it is. That is what my teacher also told me - it's proper to bring and mix some new moves in my repertoar, but only if i go together with Hapkido curriculum.

My question is: is it proper??

My opinnion is yes, because we have arts like Taekwondo which have the fully defined curriculum, which is close to changes (except fights, where many fighters use moves from kickbox etc.), and arts like Hapkido which also have defined curriculum, but among that - only imagine is the end.

Your opinnions?

I would be inclined to get with your instructor and ask if the same sorts of techniques are found in his hapkido curriculum and if they are performed any differently, and if so, why?

If the techniques are the same but you simply haven't gotten to them yet, or they are simply called different things, your instructor may be okay with it because it is already part of the curriculum.

If the same techniques are performed differently, then you need to find out why. I am not familiar with Samba, but a scissor takedown may just be a scissor takedown and the same in both arts.

As far as ninjutsu, my in my brief exposure to it (Jinenkan taijutsus) I saw a lot of crossover between it and hapkido.

As far as what is proper and what is not, if you feel that your instructor is the real deal (i.e. can really fight and really teach you to defend yourself), then follow his lead as to what is proper and what is not within your school. If he is not scolding you or correcting you, then chances are, he's cool with what you're doing.

As to whether or not it is proper hapkido, you will likely get varying answers on that. Like I said, if the techniques are identical but with different names, then it is unlikely that your instructor will say anything negative.

In the end, you are the one who needs to use what you know when the rubber meets the road. You have exposure to a good number of different things, so it is certainly reasonable for you to blend what you know. As long as it is blending in a way that is beneficial to you, then I see no problem.

Now, if the teacher is doing the mixing and matching of hapkido and other arts (doesn't appear so from your post), then we are having a different discussion.

Daniel

 

[TigerLove]

Now, if the teacher is doing the mixing and matching of hapkido and other arts (doesn't appear so from your post), then we are having a different discussion.

Daniel

No, that's not the case.

If it was - then i wouldn't train there. Hapkido is Hapkido and i want to receive knowledge from my teacher as part of Hapkido curriculum.

I believe, very hard, it's crucial to know difference about Hapkido and mix - moves. One day, maybe, i will be a teacher - and what i want to teach is Hapkido, ancient and official. Not some cocktail of martial arts. Knowing the difference is even more crucial, when to table comes question about keeping origins in art per long period. If everybody would just teach mix moves and origins as one, there wouldn't be any Hapkido for 50 + years.

If, for my personal progress and satisfaction, i want to add some new tehniques in my sort of moves - it's my problem, as long as i respect and practice under Hapkido curicullum, and know the difference very very well.

For the rest of what you posted, i agree.

 

[kaizasosei]

You take what you need when you need and match it to your own personal skills and abilities. So i think to mix or not has nothing to do with ability.
More techniques and ideas offer more but one could begin to know only a little or everything but nothing really properly.

One of the most common mistakes of the beginner ma is to focus too much on hurting impressive moves often not taking the time to notice the finer points. The fine points in the martial arts often make a big difference.
I've learned so many tricks with clever techniques back in aikido for example. Usually i'd get corrected by someone and after listening to the advice i was often really surprised what great tips i was being given.
For striking also people come up with and train their own personal combos. The more the better. But mixing traditions is kindof taboo somehow, don't know why. But also for religions, if you can change quickly enough it's cool, but to mix probably happens somehow in the brain, but is also somehow making an already questionable thing even more sketchy. If someone does it in the privacy of their own home, i have no problem with it. I could also accept many forms of such syncretic actions, like sometimes you see a many symbols of different religions together. A statue of Mariasama at a japanese town temple. That's kind of classy even mystical, but at it's worst, it would seem like a pathetic attempt or a kind of blasphemy.



j

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

No, that's not the case.

I did not think that it was, but I wanted to clarify just to be sure where you were coming from.

Having said that, the practitioner may mix freely, though within the context of a class, the student should try to execute the techniques as they are taught. Outside of class in a real SD scenario or MMA competition, anything goes so long as it works for you.

There is no right or wrong in this regard.

Daniel

 

[FearlessFreep]

One day, maybe, i will be a teacher - and what i want to teach is Hapkido, ancient and official. Not some cocktail of martial arts. Knowing the difference is even more crucial, when to table comes question about keeping origins in art per long period. If everybody would just teach mix moves and origins as one, there wouldn't be any Hapkido for 50 + years.

Keep in mind that Hapkido itself is a semi-mix art to begin with and is constantly evolving and adapting to new threats and new realities.

 

[CDKJudoka]

I'm gonna say it.

There is nothing wrong with taking jujutsu techniques and putting them into HKD, as HKD is a Korean form of JJ. It has all the throws, locks, chokes, etc of JJ with the lovely and powerful kicks of TKD. Everything that you have mentioned has been in use by Hapkidoin since it's inception. It is just a matter of whether the techniques are taught is a completely different story.



Keep going with it. There is nothing in the world that will make a better martial artist than experiencing and cross training in other martial arts.

As for the ninjutsu, I will keep my mouth quiet, save one thing, it is just another form of jujutsu that has been made into an art that has been dead for centuries. THANK YOU HOLLYWOOD AND ALL OF THE GAIJIN!!!

 

[TigerLove]

Let's try to sum this: It's ok, even great, to mix martial arts for your personal approvement and growth, under condition you know the difference beetwen what is curriculum of your art, and what you tried on your own.

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Let's try to sum this: It's ok, even great, to mix martial arts for your personal approvement and growth, under condition you know the difference beetwen what is curriculum of your art, and what you tried on your own.

Well put!

Daniel

 

[FearlessFreep]

Let's try to sum this: It's ok, even great, to mix martial arts for your personal approvement and growth, under condition you know the difference beetwen what is curriculum of your art, and what you tried on your own.

I would caveat that with "what is the curriculum of your school/instructor". Every instructor is a product of their own training, background, and experience so even things you're taught by your instructor may or may not always have a direct connection to the purity of the art itself. But every instructor should have a reason and a thought process behind what they teach you and how it fits together so even if you do a wrist-lock into a hip throw from Hapkido and flow that into a far-side arm-bar from BJJ, if that's from your instructor than that's from your instructor and it's important to know that. But if that far-side arm-bar came from a *different* instructor, than it is still valuable to know for yourself but it's probably important to know that distinction

 

[TigerLove]

Every instructor is a product of their own training, background, and experience so even things you're taught by your instructor may or may not always have a direct connection to the purity of the art itself.

If somebody try to buy some Hapkido book, or try search for ''hapkido tehniques'' on internet or you tube, or visit 10 Hapkido dojangs, what he will find, in all cases, is wrist grab escapes, circular motion,
principle of ''water flow'', so as similar or same basic tehniques - and basic tehniques is probably heart and begining of every art.

Though all instructors have their own way, probably ain't no Hapkido student in the world which don't know about things i mentioned upper.

If basic tehniques and principles were dissrupted with mixing, it wouldn't be Hapkido anymore, even knowing the fact Hapkido itself is open art.

To avoid this, knowing the difference does matter.

The best way to show this is to say this: We (in my club) have our Hapkido curriculum book. Our Grandmaster is creator of it. Our work and progress is based on that book. It's guide from white to black belt.

When a few of practicioners is ready for next belt testing, Grandmaster comes to our town, and test them. What he asks to do is the things you can find in that book.

Since Grandmaster is 6. dan in Hapkido and Teuk Gong Moo Sool, so as 7. dan in ITF and WTF Taekwondo, and was close friend of General Choi, i believe what he teaching us is a very direct connection to the purity of the art itself.

Besides that, i like to do some moves on my own.

Probably, most of us is going through same or similar situation.

Thats the the thing i tryed to say, when i wanted to sum this: Keeping the art origins and purity is in the first place.