Mechanics of the "Oblique kick" explained

[Anarax]

So what are the variations that you speak of. If I'm incorrect about what I'm saying then give me an example of this kick working differently.

Refer to Shane's video, there's also plenty of examples if you search "oblique kick" on YouTube

 

[Anarax]

No one has explained why those defenses worked. If so point me to it. Point me to where they state. "This defense works because of A, B, C, D. ".

Please recheck the thread(s)

People who know me also know that I'm more than willing to share my knowledge and my understanding of Martial arts, mainly Jow Ga kung fu unless the technique is similar or the same across systems. They also know that when I say I look forward to talk to them, that I'm honest about that.

You have insightful input, but I don't agree with your assessment of Shane's video. Yes, you apply a similar technique differently than how someone with a different background applies it. That doesn't mean they "suck" nor do it incorrectly.

I've been chatting with some of these guys for more than 4 years. So yeah. it would nice to talk to people vs typing stuff all the time.. Not sure why that seems like some kind of promotional thing for a webinar.

You seemed to be more aggressive than usual with criticizing and providing feedback for Shane. That being accompanied by a webinar almost immediately afterwards is amazing timing. Insulting another Martial Artist(Shane) then advertising your own webinar on the "correct" way to throw the kick seems very gimmicky.

 

[geezer]

Insulting another Martial Artist(Shane) then advertising your own webinar on the "correct" way to throw the kick seems very gimmicky.

Nah, Anarax, I don't think so. Not "gimmicky", and not motivated by profit or ego. I think Jow Ga is just passionate about what he does and that reflects in his comments.

 

[Martial D]

Nah, Anarax, I don't think so. Not "gimmicky", and not motivated by profit or ego. I think Jow Ga is just passionate about what he does and that reflects in his comments.

Maybe not profit.. definitely ego. Do you read his posts? Lol

 

[JowGaWolf]

Please recheck the thread(s)


You have insightful input, but I don't agree with your assessment of Shane's video. Yes, you apply a similar technique differently than how someone with a different background applies it. That doesn't mean they "suck" nor do it incorrectly.


You seemed to be more aggressive than usual with criticizing and providing feedback for Shane. That being accompanied by a webinar almost immediately afterwards is amazing timing. Insulting another Martial Artist(Shane) then advertising your own webinar on the "correct" way to throw the kick seems very gimmicky.

I never said Shane sucks. I don't remember ever saying that anyone here or outside of martial talk sucks. Talk like that is just not productive to development and understanding. I don't mind saying something is wrong or incorrect because then I have to state why or show why. Then if I'm incorrect then I don't mind admitting that I was wrong provided that someone can show me why I was wrong or incorrect in my thinking. Stuff like that only helps me to grow.

When a martial arts teacher tells a student that he or she is wrong and the student asks "why?" That teacher doesn't tell the student to go to youtube and to search why.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Maybe not profit.. definitely ego. Do you read his posts? Lol

What you are picking up is my frustration and not my Ego.

When I try to explain stuff here and people aren't understanding what I'm trying to put into words. So I take my time to make a video to better communicate what I'm talking about. Like how the kick can be done at different levels, angles, stances, the complications that come with the kick, the risks of doing the kick too close, the difference between stomping and whipping. I even showed the distance that I used the kick at various kicking heights.

Many of these same concepts can be seen in Jon Jones videos. I do all of this and you say I have an ego. So I still try to communicate in a way that you understand. I could easily do an analysis in public on Shane's video and put it out like that. With comments about what I think of him, while laughing and claim that he doesn't know Kung fu. But I don't, I didnt, and I won't simply because I'm not that type of person.

So yes, I'll do a webinar and share my knowledge with some of the members here. I'll analyze the video with them and show them what I'm seeing and how it relates to the kick. I answer questions the best I can and will listing to others who may use the same technique. They may have an approach that I haven't thought of.

Like Wang mentioned bend the leg back as a defense which I didn't even realize that it was something I was doing.

So I can't help but to feel frustrated when I say "show me" and people tell me to look on youtube because there is evidence of it everywhere.

 

[drop bear]

Let's try this. Why would you do an oblique kick against your opponent when he is close enough to punch you in the face?

I throw it as a body shot. And I do it in close because he doesn't expect it.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

Why would you do an oblique kick against your opponent when he is close enough to punch you in the face?

Believe it or not, during the 1st day of my long fist training, among 50 new students, I was the only new student who asked my long fist teacher, "What will you do if I punch at your face?" Since then, I have not heard any new student who dared to ask his MA teacher with such question.

My long fist teacher said, "punch me." The following had happened.

- I right punched at his face.
- He blocked my punch with his right arm.
- He then slide his right hand to my right wrist, used his left hand to grab my right elbow joint (2 on 1), use his right leg to kick (or block) on my knee joint, and
- throw me forward.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Believe it or not, during the 1st day of my long fist training, among 50 new students, I was the only new student who asked my long fist teacher, "What will you do if I punch at your face?" Since then, I have not heard any new student who dared to ask his MA teacher with such question.

My long fist teacher said, "punch me." The following had happened.

- I right punched at his face.
- He blocked my punch with his right arm.
- He then slide his right hand to my right wrist, used his left hand to grab my right elbow joint (2 on 1), use his right leg to kick (or block) on my knee joint, and
- throw me forward.

That's too bad. A lot can be learned from experience. I used to ask my teacher to do techniques on me just so I could experience it. If he grabbed my arm I would know exactly where he was grabbing and where I needed to grab. One day he did a technique on me and so much happened at once that I had to ask him if he could do it again.

My belief is that some things can be learn faster if you have it applied to you. My first Jow Ga class was me asking "what does this do?" My Sifu told me to take him. So I gave it my best shot. Felt like my shoulders would have popped out had he fully applied it. After that day I didn't want anything else but Jow Ga.

I wouldn't be surprised if I was one of the few that knows that technique first hand. Other students that were there didn't ask questions after that day either. lol

I still ask. I don't mind the pain as long as the instructor has good control. I wouldn't ask if I thought the instructor couldn't control the technique. Or is one of those people who wants to go full out on a technique to prove a point.

 

[dvcochran]

This kick won't work against empty stance with 0% weight on leading leg. You can bend your knee effortless from this stance.

I too agree, however what I saw in the video was not an unloaded front leg. The body was still behind the front leg which will make it possible to lift the front leg long enough to cancel the attacking kick without changing stance. IMHO.
That said, I agree if you do get a solid kick to a front leg with half or better of the person's weight on it, the kick will be effective.

 

[dvcochran]

FWIW, this thread has led to great conversation. The kind I come to the forum to read.

 

[drop bear]

 

[pdg]

That's essentially what I was on about - time that right and it'll check.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Good try. Here's what I see
The first thing in analyzing this is that I have to ignore the lift. I can only watch one thing at time. Here are the steps that I took in analyzing it.

1. Was there a shift of weight to the right leg. I'm looking for changes where it looks like the right leg is now bearing weight.
2. If I see a shift from resting to load bearing state then I need to pause it and check to see if it happened before or after the lift. (I watched in slow motion)
   
3. After that I would then try to repeat what I saw, because the only way to really know is to see if I can feel the weight distribution
4. I then watched the video again in slow motion to confirm if what I felt looks like what I saw.

My finding.
2. I see a downward shift in the right as if you are dropping the weight sort of like almost dropping and lifting at the same time.
3. I tried the same thing standing in a similar way that you were standing and I repeated it until if felt like there was no weight on my right leg. Because the point was that no weight was transferred to that leg. At first I thought damn, something new, but then I realized that the weighted feel wasn't in my leg but in my ankle.
4. I watched the video again at normal speed and in slow motion because at this state I need to come to a conclusion. This time I looked at both. legs

At :08 your right leg is at a rested state which I assume you are putting your weight on your left leg. Shortly after you I see you transition your weight from the left leg to right right leg. You can see this in your leg in your upper torso, you literally shift left to right. First I see the movement in your knee then I see the movement left to right in your torso.

In the context of the leg check that was done in the video. I'm not sure if that qualifies as the leg check he was doing.

I tired to go about this as scientifically as possible without having separate scales to measure the weight on each leg.

Thanks for posting the video. I appreciate that more than you know.

 

[pdg]

Good try. Here's what I see
The first thing in analyzing this is that I have to ignore the lift. I can only watch one thing at time. Here are the steps that I took in analyzing it.

1. Was there a shift of weight to the right leg. I'm looking for changes where it looks like the right leg is now bearing weight.
2. If I see a shift from resting to load bearing state then I need to pause it and check to see if it happened before or after the lift. (I watched in slow motion)
   
3. After that I would then try to repeat what I saw, because the only way to really know is to see if I can feel the weight distribution
4. I then watched the video again in slow motion to confirm if what I felt looks like what I saw.

My finding.
2. I see a downward shift in the right as if you are dropping the weight sort of like almost dropping and lifting at the same time.
3. I tried the same thing standing in a similar way that you were standing and I repeated it until if felt like there was no weight on my right leg. Because the point was that no weight was transferred to that leg. At first I thought damn, something new, but then I realized that the weighted feel wasn't in my leg but in my ankle.
4. I watched the video again at normal speed and in slow motion because at this state I need to come to a conclusion. This time I looked at both. legs

At :08 your right leg is at a rested state which I assume you are putting your weight on your left leg. Shortly after you I see you transition your weight from the left leg to right right leg. You can see this in your leg in your upper torso, you literally shift left to right. First I see the movement in your knee then I see the movement left to right in your torso.

In the context of the leg check that was done in the video. I'm not sure if that qualifies as the leg check he was doing.

I tired to go about this as scientifically as possible without having separate scales to measure the weight on each leg.

Thanks for posting the video. I appreciate that more than you know.

With that sort of lift, you (I) wouldn't do it until your kick is almost finished.

Unless your kick is exceptionally slow, you're not going to have the opportunity to look for weight shifting - and if it's that slow then I can simply walk away.

I (and I assume many others) can do this sort of lift with one leg off the ground entirely, making it impossible to shift weight onto it.

Also, when sparring I'm very unlikely to not constantly shift my weight from leg to leg - unless I'm deliberately baiting by standing still...


I've said previously that your video showed what I consider to be multiple different kicks, but you consider them all one kick.

This part "In the context of the leg check that was done in the video. I'm not sure if that qualifies as the leg check he was doing" - if all those kicks count as one, then all the variations of a leg check count too. You just can't do a lift of a weighted leg at demo speed.

 

[Martial D]

I too agree, however what I saw in the video was not an unloaded front leg. The body was still behind the front leg which will make it possible to lift the front leg long enough to cancel the attacking kick without changing stance. IMHO.
That said, I agree if you do get a solid kick to a front leg with half or better of the person's weight on it, the kick will be effective.

Naw dude, you can actually check a kick by bracing forward into it, if it's coming above the knee. My head coach loves this method, and it's actually pretty effective.

 

[dvcochran]

Naw dude, you can actually check a kick by bracing forward into it, if it's coming above the knee. My head coach loves this method, and it's actually pretty effective.

Possibly, but as @JowGaWolf has tried to point out, that is not the kick.

 

[Martial D]

Possibly, but as @JowGaWolf has tried to point out, that is not the kick.

Oh, you mean the kick that's impossible for anyone to check or sidestep when thrown the jowga way?


LOL.

Luckily for me I only do rounds with MMA guys and trained cage fighters and not Kung Fu experts, so I can check obliques either way.

 

[jobo]

Naw dude, you can actually check a kick by bracing forward into it, if it's coming above the knee. My head coach loves this method, and it's actually pretty effective.

even by the standards on here , this debate has descended in to a chaos of different definitions

are we talking about a ' stamp ' kick ? the same kick you use to smash a locked door open where you have full engagement of the glute and th quad ?

If so bracing into it isn't the best idea as it will damage what ever it hits, this on the proviso that you have a sturdy pair of shoes on, its effectiveness in bare feet is likely much rudeduced i not sure by how much as i've never tried to kick a door of its hinges in bare feet

 

[pdg]

are we talking about a ' stamp ' kick ? the same kick you use to smash a locked door open where you have full engagement of the glute and th quad ?

Judging by the video, I'd say no - it's different.