Measuring Racism in America

[Makalakumu]

If you were to measure racism in America, what criteria would you examine? What statistics would you use to show that racism is still occuring? I am asking this because it seems as if the right and left trade anecdotal stories to back up claims for and against this concept. I would like to see what the data actually says...

upnorthkyosa

 

[MA-Caver]

Now-a-days it's (seemingly) difficult to measure racism. IMO it's gotten a lot better in terms of non-existence. But at the same time it's still around. Not too recently I heard a couple of (white) co-workers refer to blacks using the "N" word. Also heard derogatory remarks about two mexican workers as well. I didn't appreciate it and said so. Was told what to go do with myself.
Growing up I was racially biased but thankfully, O' Thankfully I gotten over it. My life is SO much MORE richer because of my "color-blindness".
How to measure it though. It's become a hidden taboo because it's just not PC (if it ever were... yeah, around members of your own race). Will people fess up what they really feel inwardly about their racially different co-worker/friend/neighbor?
What exactly are you looking for when asking these type questions? Who is and who isn't? Folks are calling Bill Cosby racist because of the remarks he made about his own race.

I'll throw this in while I'm at it.
I'm (personally) not approving of the term "African-American" (or "Mexican-American" for that matter). Because to me it signifies that the user is saying they are from Africa as well as America. If they are new immigrants then by all means, sure. Because to me, they're showing where they're from originally but also signifying their citizenship-status.
But if they're like 3rd or 4th or even 5th generation AMERICAN BORN then they're Americans ... period.
My family descends directly from Ireland but being 8th generation born I'm not calling myself "Irish-American." I'm an American and that's that.
I can understand the desire to want to show some ... (whatever it's called) to where one's ancestors are from... but if you're born here and thus a citizen here... then by gum you're from here!
That's my little rant.
:asian:

 

[deadhand31]

It's kind of hard to measure racism, I think. Also, it's politically correct to think that racism only comes from white anglo-saxton protestants. I remember seeing footage from the LA riots, where a bunch of african-americans were burning korean stores, and said that koreans shouldn't be moving into their neighborhood. (I seem to remember alot of footage from the 50's where the KKK was burning crosses in black houses, because they shouldn't "be moving in to their neighborhood".)I also see alot of Chris Rock's humor, and I see alot of racist remarks. What would happen if I, as a white male, were to get up on stage, and start making racist remarks to minorities? I'd probably get the crap kicked out of me by an angry mob. To measure racism, we first need to get the definition right: bias against ANYONE based on race.

 

[Kane]

Affirmative action in my opinion is a big bringer of racism in our country. The fact Underepresentative groups get more rights than other group is just infuriating. When giving collage admissions for example, they give top priority to Blacks, Hispanics, and Latinos. Is that fair? I think it is racist to both sides.

For the groups that aren't Underepresentative; it is basically taking away many job offerings or collage scholarship because of race. For example, if a Hispanic gets a 3.5 as a high school average and a white man gets a 4.0 as a high school average, guess who gets admitted to collage and is given more priority, the Hispanic who got lower grades. Now isn’t that just racism. Many hard-working people like whites are denied scholarship to collages for some other race who didn’t work as hard. I’m not saying that Blacks, Hispanics, and Latinos don’t work hard. I just think they should be held to the same standard as whites, Asians, or any other race.

It also is racism to an Underepresentative person too. For one, it is basically telling a Hispanic or Black that you are lowers in intelligence and don’t need to work as hard. ALL human sub-species have the same intelligence; no race should be cut slack. To tell you the truth, I would be offended if I was Black, Hispanic, or Latino and found I was accepted into collage because of my race. I would feel can guilty if I had was in their shoes.

There is a club at my collage (Brown University) called the Third World Club. First of all, that name sounds SO offensive, what kind of name is that? Third World was a term used in the Cold War so already they are using a wrong term. Second, they tell these students that come in that they are below white people and crap like that. SO MUCH CRAP I think. Everyone is equal in America.

My point is that ALL people should be treated equal. It doesn’t matter if their was slavery 200 years ago, or if his parents came from another country. All people should work hard and get the same results. Anyone disagree?

 

[michaeledward]

The fact Underepresentative groups get more rights than other group is just infuriating.

Can you please list the 'Rights' that these Under-represented groups have that others do not?

You list preferences in scholarships and adminission to University in your argument. I would posit, however, that those are privileges, not 'Rights'.

Mike

 

[loki09789]

Not so much a way to 'measure racism' but maybe a way to measure the trend of social acceptance of a group would be to study demographics on where and what property values 'minority' groups are living in.

Same with educational trends (college entry vs. graduation/degree rations for minorities)

Same with populations of career/jobs based on percentages of minorities in those fields RELATIVE to the total population of the minority.
(If you say that Auto VP's are made up of only 3% minorities, what if that 3% is 40% of the total minority population AND it is an increased over time from no representation to 20% 5 years ago and so on.)

I would say the best measure of 'racism' would be to study the rate of 'social acceptance' in terms of job opportunities, educational opportunites, financial income stats, housing.... that would indicate the rate of improved quality of life from introduction into the society to the current day (so say from the day that Slaves were freed and became citizens - if not completely in practice at least theoretically - to now.)

 

[rmcrobertson]

Sorry, but I'm about to stick an appendage in the door jamb again.

First off, "Kane," I did my grad work at Brown University, where it looks like standards have sure 'nough been taking a beating. Just so you know, I worked with Robert Scholes in English, Michael Silverman in Semiotics, and I even helped hire one of the professors you probably despise.

So, when you start off about how at your, "collage," something called the "Third World Club," fails to understand that, "all human sub-species," should be "treated equal," and that therefore affirmative action discriminates against, "Many hard-working people like whites...{who} are denied scholarship to collages for some other race who didn’t work as hard," I scarcely know whether to critique the basics, the logic, or the misrepresentation first.

It's nonsense, ugly nonsense, beginning with the pseudo-biology of, "sub-species," and, "race."

In the case of Brown University, I recommend learning something about your..."collage," starting with what the Triangle Trade was.

In the case of affirmative action, I recommend you read some of Richard Rodriguez's stuff on the matter. He's somebody you might find common ground with, but he has a far-more intelligent sense that affirmative action is a messy solution to a cultural tangle. Oh, and by the way--please supply a specific case in which you can document somebody, "white," who did not get into university because of his (funny how it's always, "his," ain't it? I guess the girls have their own affirmative action...white man just can't catch a break, can he?), "race."

Incidentally, I write as a WASP who, I am willing to bet a shiny nickel, grew up with a lot less money than you did. What's their cost up to now? must be well over 35-40 K/year. No wonder you feel discriminated against.

Affirmative action's worked for white boys since forever. Our current Prez used it to get into Yale (legacy program...didn't have the grades); when I taught at your University, I had a student (nice white kid) who was flunking ALL his classes and wanted to leave...dad wouldn't let him, he told me, and was dropping a big donation to make sure he stayed there. Or there's Stanley Fish's comment that when he started grad school at Berkeley in 1961, there were two women professors out of 126...one was in a wheelchair, and the other got denied tenure the following year, after she stopped dating one of the Department's senior professors.

I'm sorrry you find Brown such a hotbed of radicalism--but if I can offer some advice, don't worry about most of the political clubs students at extremely-expensive colleges form. Anyway, Mary Chapin Carpenter was a Brown grad. The place must have SOME good in it.

And damn, man, take some English classes, willya? If you can, take a class from Scholes--he's brilliant, and a wonderful teacher (you can look him up in all sorts of sources, including a remarkably-stupid book, "Profscam," where he's described as the Prince of Darkness more or less...), and has spent a lot of time teaching and writing on undergraduate composition.

Oh, and hey...where do you go to study martial arts in Providence, these days? How's Buddy doing in the slammer?

 

[Kane]

Sorry, but I'm about to stick an appendage in the door jamb again.

First off, "Kane," I did my grad work at Brown University, where it looks like standards have sure 'nough been taking a beating. Just so you know, I worked with Robert Scholes in English, Michael Silverman in Semiotics, and I even helped hire one of the professors you probably despise.

So, when you start off about how at your, "collage," something called the "Third World Club," fails to understand that, "all human sub-species," should be "treated equal," and that therefore affirmative action discriminates against, "Many hard-working people like whites...{who} are denied scholarship to collages for some other race who didn’t work as hard," I scarcely know whether to critique the basics, the logic, or the misrepresentation first.

It's nonsense, ugly nonsense, beginning with the pseudo-biology of, "sub-species," and, "race."

In the case of Brown University, I recommend learning something about your..."collage," starting with what the Triangle Trade was.

In the case of affirmative action, I recommend you read some of Richard Rodriguez's stuff on the matter. He's somebody you might find common ground with, but he has a far-more intelligent sense that affirmative action is a messy solution to a cultural tangle. Oh, and by the way--please supply a specific case in which you can document somebody, "white," who did not get into university because of his (funny how it's always, "his," ain't it? I guess the girls have their own affirmative action...white man just can't catch a break, can he?), "race."

Incidentally, I write as a WASP who, I am willing to bet a shiny nickel, grew up with a lot less money than you did. What's their cost up to now? must be well over 35-40 K/year. No wonder you feel discriminated against.

Affirmative action's worked for white boys since forever. Our current Prez used it to get into Yale (legacy program...didn't have the grades); when I taught at your University, I had a student (nice white kid) who was flunking ALL his classes and wanted to leave...dad wouldn't let him, he told me, and was dropping a big donation to make sure he stayed there. Or there's Stanley Fish's comment that when he started grad school at Berkeley in 1961, there were two women professors out of 126...one was in a wheelchair, and the other got denied tenure the following year, after she stopped dating one of the Department's senior professors.

I'm sorrry you find Brown such a hotbed of radicalism--but if I can offer some advice, don't worry about most of the political clubs students at extremely-expensive colleges form. Anyway, Mary Chapin Carpenter was a Brown grad. The place must have SOME good in it.

And damn, man, take some English classes, willya? If you can, take a class from Scholes--he's brilliant, and a wonderful teacher (you can look him up in all sorts of sources, including a remarkably-stupid book, "Profscam," where he's described as the Prince of Darkness more or less...), and has spent a lot of time teaching and writing on undergraduate composition.

When was did your grad work at Brown University? Just curious.

One of my friends was discriminated from going to Stanford. A Hispanic student had a 3.1 and they were going to give the scholarship to him instead of my friend (who is white) who had a 3.8. Thank God he didn't, but do you think it was fair they were even thinking of doing that?

Though I am not white I would still kind of feel guilty is some hardworking white person did not get the same right I did. I like to earn my place. I don't need anyone cutting me any slack. I am East Indian and not really on the Underep. Group list, but it could have happened.

Oh, and hey...where do you go to study martial arts in Providence, these days? How's Buddy doing in the slammer?

How do I study MA in Providence? I don't have time for any martial arts in here besides wrestling. I actually come from California, and that is where I do my Asain MA (judo, ju jitsu, Tae Kwon Do).

What do you mean by "How's Buddy doing in the slammer?"

 

[michaeledward]

One of my friends was discriminated from going to Stanford. A Hispanic student had a 3.1 and they were going to give the scholarship to him instead of my friend (who is white) who had a 3.8.

College Admissions and Awarding Scholarships are often not based solely upon GPA. There are often other contributing factors.

Perhaps the Hispanic student has a father or grandfather that attended Stanford, and maybe donated a building or two?

Perhaps the Hispanic student played the oboe.

Perhaps the Hispanic student wished to study a field in which the college needed additional representation.

Or maybe, the scholarship was being awarded based upon need, and the Hispanic student was poorer than your friend.

And maybe ... the Hispanic student was going to receive the scholarship because he was Hispanic.

Can you do anything more to demonstrate the schools motivation for not choosing your friend, or are we left with his statement as the cause?

Mike

 

[Flatlander]

One of my friends was discriminated from going to Stanford. A Hispanic student had a 3.1 and they were going to give the scholarship to him instead of my friend (who is white) who had a 3.8. Thank God he didn't, but do you think it was fair they were even thinking of doing that?

That would depend upon the nature of the scholarship. Some are for specific circumstances, and perhaps the Hispanic student was a better candidate. That's not really the issue, though. He wasn't discriminated against in terms of his acceptance to Stanford according to your story, he was denied scholarship funding, which is a different issue. It's difficult to determine if this was a circumstance of discrimination or not without all of the facts.

 

[rmcrobertson]

So let me see if I correctly grasp the nettle of your logic here--you attend Brown, your buddy goes to Stanford, but you feel discriminated against because of Affirmative Action.

Exactly how do your or your friend KNOW that this, "Hispanic student," was given preferential treatment at the expense of your buddy? Any facts, or are you simply going by guess?

If you live in Providence, R.I. and you don't know who Buddy Cianci is, it's pretty revealing. Unless you've only been in town a month, you assuredly should have heard of this Republican ex-mayor, a topic EVERYBODY in town discusses endlessly.

What it reveals is that you're an extraordinarily-privileged student, who lives--and has always lived--a life that is completely disconnected from the working class people who remain the majority of Providence's citizens, and most likely the vast majority of working people back home.

I think you should be glad that you got into and no doubt are working hard at an extraordinary university. Considering that your family has almost certainly got a great deal of money (which is what got you to Brown in the first place), considering how much nicer your daily life is than the overwhelming m,ajority of the people of Providence, and considering that if you're "East Indian," it is not so long ago that you would never have been allowed entrance into an Ivy League university, you might consider lightening up a little on the racial invective--and, once in a while, at least considering your class privileges.

 

[Kane]

So let me see if I correctly grasp the nettle of your logic here--you attend Brown, your buddy goes to Stanford, but you feel discriminated against because of Affirmative Action.

Exactly how do your or your friend KNOW that this, "Hispanic student," was given preferential treatment at the expense of your buddy? Any facts, or are you simply going by guess?

If you live in Providence, R.I. and you don't know who Buddy Cianci is, it's pretty revealing. Unless you've only been in town a month, you assuredly should have heard of this Republican ex-mayor, a topic EVERYBODY in town discusses endlessly.

What it reveals is that you're an extraordinarily-privileged student, who lives--and has always lived--a life that is completely disconnected from the working class people who remain the majority of Providence's citizens, and most likely the vast majority of working people back home.

I think you should be glad that you got into and no doubt are working hard at an extraordinary university. Considering that your family has almost certainly got a great deal of money (which is what got you to Brown in the first place), considering how much nicer your daily life is than the overwhelming m,ajority of the people of Providence, and considering that if you're "East Indian," it is not so long ago that you would never have been allowed entrance into an Ivy League university, you might consider lightening up a little on the racial invective--and, once in a while, at least considering your class privileges.

Now you seem to be making bold-faced assumptions. First of all, I didn't know you were talking Buddy Cianci or a "buddy" of mine. Since you seem to somewhat get offensive at times and jumping to conclusions, I not always sure what your talking about.

Anyway, why do you make assumptions I got to Brown because of money? Are you trying to say I got to Brown because my parents were rich? Hardly the reason, I first of all got the admission to Brown by a large amount of financial aid, and my parents struggle to pay for it. You have no right to say I went to Brown because I am rich or whatever. Oh and no, I wasn't accepted into Brown because of my race either.

You maybe right about the fact that a long ago East Indians were denied rights to Ivy League School. That happen a long time ago and I don't need to worry about that today. Should we pay all the African slaves money for having them in slavery 200 years ago? Why aren't Egyptians paying back the Israelites for slavery thousands of years ago? Why isn't Rome paying Greece back for conquering them? Why don't we just forget about the past and look to the future?

 

[Flatlander]

From here, affirmative action is defined as:

Positive steps to enhance the diversity of some group, often to remedy the cumulative effect of subtle as well as gross expressions of prejudice. When numerical goals are set, they are set according to the group's representation in the applicant pool rather than the group's representation in the general population. For example, a medical school with an affirmative action program would seek to admit members of an underrepresented group in proportion to their representation in the population of those who had completed pre-medical requirements and wished to attend medical school. Affirmative action should be distinguished from reparations.

Affirmative action is a path to attain the harmony of universal equality that most would agree is necessary in order to level the societal playing field. It is not an end, it is a means to an end. Of course, there will be the short sighted few who see the personal inconveniences, and are not prepared to make a sacrifice for betterment of our society's future. This is a natural and predictable response from people who are experiencing a lessening of their historical position of relative priviledge. That is, however, the whole point. Nobody ever said that this would be an easy or non-disruptory path. That is because it is about the fundamental change of ingrained selfish beliefs. Essentially, it's a battle against protectionism.

It's unfortunate that the struggle to change the status quo manifests itself as what appears to be a furtherance of predjudicial policy, but it is a necessary evil. Only when the norm becomes an equal representation of people of all different ethnicity, and remains that way for generations, will the ideals that so many have suffered for, be realized. Until then, people will continue to complain when things don't go their way, and blame it on some sort of racist or predjudicial agenda. But those of us who choose to see the forest will recognise this as finger pointing and denial of responsibility, as a reluctance to let go of the unbalanced priviledges that have served as the elevator of mediocrity for generations.

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

Speaking as a Hispanic, some people here seem to be working toward Racism real good.

Please don't say you're not, because you're not in my shoes to see the view from my side.(for the past 50 years)

But to be fair, it's always going to be here, no matter what, and it's up to all ethnic groups to stengthen themselves to achieve success in this world.

Yes, I'm an American, but I can't nor will I hide what I am, and I must keep up my culture alive. One cannot drop what they truly represent, and besides, as long as we're different, we're always going to note that anyway.

Somehow, we just all have to find a way to get along.:asian:

 

[rmcrobertson]

In the first place, "Kane," I wrote that "it was not so long ago," that east Indians were not getting into the Ivy League all that often. Well within my lifetime, in fact.

Moreover, there are three basic possibilities here:

a) you aren't a student at Brown at all, and you're just woofin;
b) you are a student at Brown, and your parents have lotsa bucks;
c) you're an "East Indian," student, who grew up somewhat privileged already (or you wouldn't have the expertise in English and the educational background to have a hope of applying to an elite American school), and whose grants and loans and scholarship--whether you know it or not--depend on concepts like affirmative action.

In other words, your background--as I said before--privileged you, as mine did me while I was a grad student. You should also keep in mind that however hard you worked, however smart you are--there are lots of folks out there who worked equally hard, who were at least as smart, and didn't get the breaks you got.

I'll still bet that I got through school on a LOT less money than you are getting through school on. And personally, I usually felt damn fortunate. But if you're on financial aid--you are benefiting from a form of affirmative action, the form that this country decided upon some time back, when it decided that people who weren't really wealthy should have a shot at the best education too. Then too, within my lifetime people who were, "East Indian," were considered, "colored," and subject to all sorts of ******** from bigots. If that's changed, it's because only a little while ago, people put their asses on the line. They still do.

And oh...the money that started the university you attend, and built some of the buildings...it's from the triangle trade...rum from molasses, gold, and slaves. You shouldn't feel guilty, but you should have a basic awareness of how many human beings worked and suffered so you can get on the computer in your dorm room and pooh-pooh giving everybody as equal a chance as possible.

And don't worry. All the stats still show that the white men are getting the biggest piece of the pie in America.

 

[Makalakumu]

And don't worry. All the stats still show that the white men are getting the biggest piece of the pie in America.

Could somebody please outline the criteria and the statistics to back this statement up? Racism is such a broad topic that it becomes difficult to see what actually fits underneath that umbrella. I think that a concrete understanding of this concept would help us understand more about where we stand in regards to race relations.

 

[michaeledward]

Speaking as a Hispanic, some people here seem to be working toward Racism real good.
Please don't say you're not, because you're not in my shoes to see the view from my side.(for the past 50 years)
But to be fair, it's always going to be here, no matter what, and it's up to all ethnic groups to stengthen themselves to achieve success in this world.
Yes, I'm an American, but I can't nor will I hide what I am, and I must keep up my culture alive. One cannot drop what they truly represent, and besides, as long as we're different, we're always going to note that anyway.
Somehow, we just all have to find a way to get along.

I would think, Dr., that you might be a little more clear about whom you are making such accusations. At least that way, the accused 'Racist' will be able to respond. And there is, I believe, a very big difference between 'Racism' and a 'Racist', and as I read your remarks, you are making the latter accusation.

But, that aside. Many before you have come to America and indeed did give up what they had, and put aside their culture in order to become part of something new, and different, and exciting; The American Experiment. My forebears came to this country to become part of this country. In doing so, they acknowledged that they would have to sacrifice some of that which came before, and some of that from where they came. They may not have liked the rules, but those were the rules of the game.

I am about a liberal as they get. You might not find anyone on this board more supportive of 'minority rights', 'immigration rights' and 'equal opportunity' than me. And yet, I find your post offensive. Much of what makes America great, is the belief that the sum is greater than the total of the parts. We are all better together. And your post seems to say that you are not willing to give the total of your parts (your Hispanic heritage) as a portion of the whole. I believe that is about as Un-American as you can get.

Let me add a small anecdote from work. My company makes a product that allows small business to generate computer reports for American consumers. In the coming months, we are adding to our primary product the ability to print those reports with the major content printed in Spanish. During the past few weeks, I have been contacting our clients (primarily small business owners - specifically in New England) and informing them of this upcoming additional feature. The vast majority (if not all) of the clients I mention this feature to are opposed to adding in this Spanish language capability. In fact, earlier today, I spoke with 'Fatima' at one of the shop (a good Portuguese woman), and she said, "No, we're in America now. The language is English'.

So, welcome; but please leave "your storied pomp" in the "ancient lands". Remember where you came from, but don't cling to it so tightly that you weaken that which drew you here.

Thank you - Michael

 

[Dr. Kenpo]

I would think, Dr., that you might be a little more clear about whom you are making such accusations. At least that way, the accused 'Racist' will be able to respond. And there is, I believe, a very big difference between 'Racism' and a 'Racist', and as I read your remarks, you are making the latter accusation.

But, that aside. Many before you have come to America and indeed did give up what they had, and put aside their culture in order to become part of something new, and different, and exciting; The American Experiment. My forebears came to this country to become part of this country. In doing so, they acknowledged that they would have to sacrifice some of that which came before, and some of that from where they came. They may not have liked the rules, but those were the rules of the game.

I am about a liberal as they get. You might not find anyone on this board more supportive of 'minority rights', 'immigration rights' and 'equal opportunity' than me. And yet, I find your post offensive. Much of what makes America great, is the belief that the sum is greater than the total of the parts. We are all better together. And your post seems to say that you are not willing to give the total of your parts (your Hispanic heritage) as a portion of the whole. I believe that is about as Un-American as you can get.

Let me add a small anecdote from work. My company makes a product that allows small business to generate computer reports for American consumers. In the coming months, we are adding to our primary product the ability to print those reports with the major content printed in Spanish. During the past few weeks, I have been contacting our clients (primarily small business owners - specifically in New England) and informing them of this upcoming additional feature. The vast majority (if not all) of the clients I mention this feature to are opposed to adding in this Spanish language capability. In fact, earlier today, I spoke with 'Fatima' at one of the shop (a good Portuguese woman), and she said, "No, we're in America now. The language is English'.

So, welcome; but please leave "your storied pomp" in the "ancient lands". Remember where you came from, but don't cling to it so tightly that you weaken that which drew you here.

Thank you - Michael

I didn't start the thread, but I will answer to it. I'm not being offensive but those that wrote before sounded like it. I'm not pointing fingers, the persons who wrote know what they said, or didn't say. I'm just answering back.

You ask me to give up what I am??? You gotta be kidding me. A man cannot change what he is, and deny his past lineage. This is what I would expect from someone in Texas, but it goes beyond this state, so I see.

You're telling me to "leave my storied pomp in the ancient lands?" You are a racist then. Who are you to dictate to me? See, it's goofiness like that that causes things like "Affirmative Action" to pop up so that people can get some sort of justice.

I also got a news flash for ya; my people were here first. I speak damn good English, and make that a priority here as a teacher in South Texas, especially when I deal with students from Mexico. It's called being billingual;what a concept! If others want to deny thier heritage, that's their business. I could care less.

You're telling me I'm "UnAmerican." What a joke. You remind me of my past 30 some years ago. I guess it's true;the past does repeat itself.

And I'll cling to any damn thing I want. Be careful though, the Justice Deaprtment is on my side now.:rofl: I win!!!

 

[Kane]

In the first place, "Kane," I wrote that "it was not so long ago," that east Indians were not getting into the Ivy League all that often. Well within my lifetime, in fact.

Moreover, there are three basic possibilities here:

a) you aren't a student at Brown at all, and you're just woofin;
b) you are a student at Brown, and your parents have lotsa bucks;
c) you're an "East Indian," student, who grew up somewhat privileged already (or you wouldn't have the expertise in English and the educational background to have a hope of applying to an elite American school), and whose grants and loans and scholarship--whether you know it or not--depend on concepts like affirmative action.

In other words, your background--as I said before--privileged you, as mine did me while I was a grad student. You should also keep in mind that however hard you worked, however smart you are--there are lots of folks out there who worked equally hard, who were at least as smart, and didn't get the breaks you got.

I'll still bet that I got through school on a LOT less money than you are getting through school on. And personally, I usually felt damn fortunate. But if you're on financial aid--you are benefiting from a form of affirmative action, the form that this country decided upon some time back, when it decided that people who weren't really wealthy should have a shot at the best education too. Then too, within my lifetime people who were, "East Indian," were considered, "colored," and subject to all sorts of ******** from bigots. If that's changed, it's because only a little while ago, people put their asses on the line. They still do.

And oh...the money that started the university you attend, and built some of the buildings...it's from the triangle trade...rum from molasses, gold, and slaves. You shouldn't feel guilty, but you should have a basic awareness of how many human beings worked and suffered so you can get on the computer in your dorm room and pooh-pooh giving everybody as equal a chance as possible.

And don't worry. All the stats still show that the white men are getting the biggest piece of the pie in America.

I see what you are saying; my point is that we shouldn't live in the past on move forward. I think all people should be judged the same and collage administrators shouldn't judge on admission by race.

Affirmative Action I don't mind if it is to look at lifestyle. For example, if the student had to work all day and do school that would be a reason for affirmative action. Looking at race isn't a way to look at things.

By the way in case you did or did not know, I mean East Indian from India not fEast Indian from the Caribbean. Cheers!

 

[michaeledward]

I didn't start the thread, but I will answer to it. I'm not being offensive but those that wrote before sounded like it. I'm not pointing fingers, the persons who wrote know what they said, or didn't say. I'm just answering back.

You ask me to give up what I am??? You gotta be kidding me. A man cannot change what he is, and deny his past lineage. This is what I would expect from someone in Texas, but it goes beyond this state, so I see.

You're telling me to "leave my storied pomp in the ancient lands?" You are a racist then. Who are you to dictate to me? See, it's goofiness like that that causes things like "Affirmative Action" to pop up so that people can get some sort of justice.

I also got a news flash for ya; my people were here first. I speak damn good English, and make that a priority here as a teacher in South Texas, especially when I deal with students from Mexico. It's called being billingual;what a concept! If others want to deny thier heritage, that's their business. I could care less.

You're telling me I'm "UnAmerican." What a joke. You remind me of my past 30 some years ago. I guess it's true;the past does repeat itself.

And I'll cling to any damn thing I want. Be careful though, the Justice Deaprtment is on my side now.:rofl: I win!!!

As a teacher, I am perhaps a little bit surprised that you are unfamiliar with 'The New Colossus'.

Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,​

With conquering limbs astride from land to land;​

Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand​

A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame​

is the imprisoned lightning, and her name​

Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand​

Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command​

The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.​

"Keep ancient lands, your storied pomp!" cries she​

With silent lips. "Give me your tired, your poor,​

Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,​

The wrteched refuse of your teeming shore.​

Send these, the homeless, tempest-tose to me,​

I lift my lamp beside the golden door!"​

Surely, you are not calling the Statue of Liberty racist now, are you?​

Michael​