It's one of those things that has slipped in under the radar because other, more visceral, events have overshadowed it.
May I be the first to say sorry to the British
- Thread starter jetboatdeath
- Start date
Actually I think such a gaffe would endear Obama to the Brits as Americans usually like to give BIG and EXPENSIVE pressies over (the Texas bigger and better syndrome), this time we can feel superior and condescending rofl!
Ok, it's released now so can post..2 men arrested for murder of the soldiers in NI
The OP link said there was a huge uproar here, there simply wasn't as sukerkin says other events were in the news, most people didn't even know he was here.
BBC are saying three men though
Ok, it's released now so can post..2 men arrested for murder of the soldiers in NI
The OP link said there was a huge uproar here, there simply wasn't as sukerkin says other events were in the news, most people didn't even know he was here.
BBC are saying three men though
MarkBarlow
Purple Belt
As long as the US media is having thigh sweats over Obama, don't expect much negative press and, in my opinion, any mention of the slight to the UK would have to be presented in a negative light. Whether it was from ignorance, pettiness or a hint of changes ahead, it was unfortunate and needs to be corrected.
Gordon Nore
Senior Master
I'm still trying to get my head around the fact that the DVDs were Region One. The Obama team has been very tech savvy throughout the campaign, transition and early weeks in office. Sounds like poor staff planning, communication and bad last-minute recovery. Gawd, maybe staff were rifling through desk drawers at the last minute to find a gift. But, as they say, the fish stinks from the head down, and Mr Obama must own this mistake.
The return of the Churchill bust was in the news weeks ago. I believe it was to be shipped to the British Embassy. That never made any sense to me. It was moved into the Oval Office after 9/11, if I recall. The President can decorate his office how he chooses, but it was poor timing to toss it out of the WH altogether. It was a decision that didn't need to be made.
The return of the Churchill bust was in the news weeks ago. I believe it was to be shipped to the British Embassy. That never made any sense to me. It was moved into the Oval Office after 9/11, if I recall. The President can decorate his office how he chooses, but it was poor timing to toss it out of the WH altogether. It was a decision that didn't need to be made.
Why? it's only diplomatic gifts, It's not as though the Browns would actually be allowed to keep anything anyway, it's all logged in a book ( all civil service depts have books where gifts have to be written in) and it will be put away as official not for the Browns to actually use. I can't think anyone cares what pressies they give each other, we just don't want another poodle Prime Minister to America's president.
The thing is as well, we expect nice pressies from the older Europeans like France,Scandanavia, Germany, Netherlands, Luxembourg etc because well they are sophisicated and have been around long enough to have antiques to give to each other, how can I say this...we expect Americans to be brash and gauche diplomatically so it doesn't really bother many of us. :uhyeah:
Anyway it's the thought that counts lol!
Hagakure
Blue Belt
and do we care? ...Nah! LOL! More importantly Six Nations is on!
Good point Jarrod, but seriously, what DOES the "special relationship" mean in 2009? Surely it can't be that important for the US in particular?
At the end of the day, perhaps it is time to see other people? The UKs future in my humble opinion lies at the heart of Europe. (Likely to get a panning from the Brits on here *ducks*) I used to be a huge Euro-skeptic, still am in many ways, but culturally and economically, in terms of alignment and who we mainly do business with now, it's the USE we need to kiss up to, not the USA.
I agree with you actually! We used to have a lot in common with America but now it seems we and Europe are diverging from America. If the views on MT are a reasonable representation of American views as a whole it seems as if America is getting more and more right wing, pro Creationist Christainity, more gung ho than we are. Abortion is still an issue as is the death penalty and same sex marriages whereas with us they aren't. Our views on global warming, fossil fuels and the future of our planet are also opposed to each other. The 'torture' flights over European and British airspace has cause far more concern than any presents from the President. The sheer high handedness is breath taking.
I do realise however this is much to do with the politicians not the people of America themselves, it would be a shame not to be close but I can see a break coming and I can also see America being isolated in the world. Australasia's future is in the far east, ours I think will be in Europe and possibly the far east too, the markets there are opening up all the time. Africa has it's own problems and is looking to China not America or Europe. We need peace in the Middle East, we don't want to worry that America is going to invade Iran or/and Syria and our Prime Minsister dragging us in too.
I'm surprised that you're being so blase, fellow British chaps and chapesses. The exchange of gifts is all part and parcel of the whole diplomatic Game and is often used to pass on messages that are not expressed in explicit words.
This particular gaffe, as I said earlier, was either a huge fumble by Obama's staff (and therefore mere incompetence), a lack of understanding of the significance of such things by Obama himself (which does not bode well for his foreign policy performance) or a deliberate snub/brush-off by the new President to our government (and implicit within that, the Crown).
We, as unimportant individuals, may well take the "So what?" attitude. That is, however, not the way such things will be seen by those elevated enough to play on the Worlds Stage.
Whether it's a good thing or not I wouldn't like to say at this point. I used to be pro-Europe at one time and then I saw how we, as the American phrase so robustly puts it, got the 'shaft'. We pay and pay and get nothing whilst the French do nothing and get everything, for example. Since the '60's, I have always been against being so closely associated with America's foreign policy adventures but it was a necessary thing both for 'them' and 'us' whilst the Cold War rumbled on. Given the choice, if you asked me right this minute, I'd rather not be part of any alliance that had the French in it but that's about all I could articulate (painkiller masked migraine is degrading my ability to reason).
This particular gaffe, as I said earlier, was either a huge fumble by Obama's staff (and therefore mere incompetence), a lack of understanding of the significance of such things by Obama himself (which does not bode well for his foreign policy performance) or a deliberate snub/brush-off by the new President to our government (and implicit within that, the Crown).
We, as unimportant individuals, may well take the "So what?" attitude. That is, however, not the way such things will be seen by those elevated enough to play on the Worlds Stage.
Whether it's a good thing or not I wouldn't like to say at this point. I used to be pro-Europe at one time and then I saw how we, as the American phrase so robustly puts it, got the 'shaft'. We pay and pay and get nothing whilst the French do nothing and get everything, for example. Since the '60's, I have always been against being so closely associated with America's foreign policy adventures but it was a necessary thing both for 'them' and 'us' whilst the Cold War rumbled on. Given the choice, if you asked me right this minute, I'd rather not be part of any alliance that had the French in it but that's about all I could articulate (painkiller masked migraine is degrading my ability to reason).
As I said though the Manderins in Whitehall will be laughing up their sleeves at the gaucheness of the Obama camp, it gives them the upper hand for a little while. Obama's retinue will all be blaming each other while the 'Yes Minister' types will be oh so understanding as the American delegation stands there looking all apologetic, One up for us! Gamesmanship a la Terry Thomas.
An interesting take on it that I hadn't considered :tup:. Of course, that's only if it was a mistake.
Too many years spent in MOD Main Building London lol!
Whether or not it's a mistake, it will be treated as one, another chance to patronise our cousins and put them off balance. They are always looking to wrong foot others, hell, they even do it between departments.
Hagakure
Blue Belt
Sukerkin mate, I hear what you're saying completely, but I genuinely don't care. I'm on the verge of being forced to change job, I don't know if I'm going to be getting a new one anytime soon, but I'm being put in an untenable situation, I've a toddler that doesn't sleep, I'm wondering how I'm going to pay the rent for my house, bills, food etc. These are the issues I'm concerned with, if the politicians and in particular Obama want to play silly buggers then that's what they do. In my view anyway.
With any luck, my family and I won't even be living in the UK in a few years time either.
Tez, the 6 nations, where England are getting spanked?
With any luck, my family and I won't even be living in the UK in a few years time either.
Tez, the 6 nations, where England are getting spanked?
Hagakure
Blue Belt
England playing at Twickenham? I wish the All Blacks could play in the 6N....
SSAFA? Why mate?
Sometimes I get the feeling that politics (national and international) is just a soap opera put on for our benefit. Nothing of real import gets decided on these "missions" and the real dirty work is done in dark and ugly places by people who spend very little time in front of lights and cameras.
MarkBarlow
Purple Belt
I wasn't concerned with the presents as much as the return of the Churchill bust and the apparent slighting of Brown over the visit. Also, it seems Obama is determined to not have a close relation with the UK. When friends and supporters are dwindling, you don't give the cold shoulder to the few that remain.
Of course, if folks in the UK don't think it's a big deal, who am I to tell you otherwise. Everyone views the world from their own unique perspective and what upsets me may well pass unnoticed by someone else. Suffice it to say, I wished it had been handled differently.
Hagakure
Blue Belt
I think there'll always be to some extent that close bond between the US and UK, in the same way there will be between the UK and Canada, Aus, NZ etc. In this case, one particular president, good or bad can try and make whatever diplomatic statement they like, but ultimately, I don't think it'll change much.
We have the same language (yes, I know there are nuances, slang etc that's different but we still speak the same language) and a symbiotic history. Regardless of whatever politicians do/say, I like Americans. The vast, overwhelming majority I've met have been open, friendly, gregarious, hard working, articulate and fun to be around. That's not meant to blow sunshine up the collective American behinds here
D) just relating my experience. Some noob president won't change that view.
myusername
Brown Belt
I would have to sympathise with Obama on this one! He is an ugly bugger isn't he? Would you really want his bald, cigar munching, gurning face in your front room?
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