Material for staffs

[PhotonGuy]

So how about a white oak titanium tipped staff, how would that be for a fighting staff?

 

[jks9199]

So how about a white oak titanium tipped staff, how would that be for a fighting staff?

Needlessly expensive. White Oak is OK, and not expensive. But why bother with titanium tips? if you need a tip on it -- iron, steel, or brass are all solid options, and much more cost effective than titanium.

 

[JowGaWolf]

CMA usually use wax wood for their staffs and spears and the JMA usually use the oaks for their Bo and Jo.

Wax wood is flexible and shows the ging in the tip of it when practicing forms but can be used for impact training when you have a thicker piece.

The oaks are rigid and a hard wood that dosent show ging in the weapon but is hard and a good choice for impact weapon.

Both work and are good choices and both will break with heavy impact I believe wax wood is safer about splintering compared to oak since I've personally broken both during impact training.

For me Wax Wood is the only material that is good for a staff or a spear. The flexibility makes it more durable with impacts, provided that there are no structural defects. I have a natural wax wood staff that I've own for more than 20 years and I'm amazed at how it has broken on me yet. I don't like the wushu wax wood staffs, they are too thin for me. I fall into the Chinese Martial Arts category that you speak of.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Needlessly expensive. White Oak is OK, and not expensive. But why bother with titanium tips? if you need a tip on it -- iron, steel, or brass are all solid options, and much more cost effective than titanium.

Any staff with a metal tip would be wasted money in my opinion. The tip isn't the area of concern when it comes to breaks or splinters in a staff. I would think that the only use of a metal tip would be to increase the weight of the staff.

 

[jks9199]

For me Wax Wood is the only material that is good for a staff or a spear. The flexibility makes it more durable with impacts, provided that there are no structural defects. I have a natural wax wood staff that I've own for more than 20 years and I'm amazed at how it has broken on me yet. I don't like the wushu wax wood staffs, they are too thin for me. I fall into the Chinese Martial Arts category that you speak of.

Depends on the principles that underlie your use of the stick. Some styles and approaches want a whippy, lively stick, others demand a more rigid, heavier stick. I had an inexpensive "red oak" standard martial arts staff that lasted me for several decades, including heavy contact exercises. I've had others... Yeah. 'nuff said. I've also had used natural ironwood sticks that stood up to insanely heavy use -- but were also seriously HEAVY to use!

Any staff with a metal tip would be wasted money in my opinion. The tip isn't the area of concern when it comes to breaks or splinters in a staff. I would think that the only use of a metal tip would be to increase the weight of the staff.

I don't completely disagree -- but if you're actually going to carry and walk with the staff, as well as use it potentially to fight, I can see putting a metal tip or collar ring on it.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Now using a fighting staff as a walking stick then yes. A metal tip or even a rubber one would be good to keep unnecessary damage from happening to the stick. We don't use collar rings in Jow Ga Kung Fu. Our staffs are also thicker so metal would definitely make it heavier.

 

[JowGaWolf]

Depends on the principles that underlie your use of the stick. Some styles and approaches want a whippy, lively stick, others demand a more rigid, heavier stick. I had an inexpensive "red oak" standard martial arts staff that lasted me for several decades, including heavy contact exercises. I've had others... Yeah. 'nuff said. I've also had used natural ironwood sticks that stood up to insanely heavy use -- but were also seriously HEAVY to use!

I agree. The principles that underlie the use of the stick matter. How was the natural ironwood? I've never heard of those being used as a staff. Are they thick?

 

[Chris Parker]

So how about a white oak titanium tipped staff, how would that be for a fighting staff?

Why? And what's the obsession with titanium?

Look, if you're training in a traditional system that uses bo/staff, go with their specifications and guidelines. If you're not, it's all fantasy so who cares what you make it from…

Any staff with a metal tip would be wasted money in my opinion. The tip isn't the area of concern when it comes to breaks or splinters in a staff. I would think that the only use of a metal tip would be to increase the weight of the staff.

Partially… it also depends on what the staff is expected to encounter… and a couple of other factors. Takamatsu, for example, had a rokushaku bo with nine iron rings on it (five at one end, four at the other) from Kukishin Ryu… the rings added weight, definitely, but it also gave a range of "markers" for range, as well as other uses.

 

[donald1]

Staffs are going to get marks on them after you spare. I know because mine has lots. But thats why I sand it and use tung oil. (Linseed oil also good and cheaper too)

Just curious. What do you need a metal tip for? I ask this because Ive never seen a staff (with metal tip) nor have I needed one

 

[JowGaWolf]

Takamatsu, for example, had a rokushaku bo with nine iron rings on it (five at one end, four at the other) from Kukishin Ryu… the rings added weight, definitely, but it also gave a range of "markers" for range, as well as other uses.

I don't think this is the case with the person who originally asked about the metal tip. I can only assume that the metal tip from his question isn't a spearhead or something else that would serve a function. What you are describing is something that was made for a purpose which requires the metal end to achieve that purpose. My comments are entirely based on a staff with a metal cap on the end of a staff.

If the person's idea of a metal tip = Spearhead then we would be having a totally different conversation, and the staff would no longer be a staff but a spear.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Why? And what's the obsession with titanium?

Look, if you're training in a traditional system that uses bo/staff, go with their specifications and guidelines. If you're not, it's all fantasy so who cares what you make it from…



Partially… it also depends on what the staff is expected to encounter… and a couple of other factors. Takamatsu, for example, had a rokushaku bo with nine iron rings on it (five at one end, four at the other) from Kukishin Ryu… the rings added weight, definitely, but it also gave a range of "markers" for range, as well as other uses.

Because titanium is a very strong and durable metal and has been used in many types of sporting goods equipment.

Technological advancements is not fantasy. Back when staff fighting was first developed they didn't have all the advanced knowledge of metallurgy that they've got today. There is no reason why modern technology and modern engineering can't be applied to old fashioned tools, unless you want to be strictly a traditionalist.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Staffs are going to get marks on them after you spare. I know because mine has lots. But thats why I sand it and use tung oil. (Linseed oil also good and cheaper too)

Just curious. What do you need a metal tip for? I ask this because Ive never seen a staff (with metal tip) nor have I needed one

I've seen them. We called them a "spear"...

 

[jks9199]

Because titanium is a very strong and durable metal and has been used in many types of sporting goods equipment.

Technological advancements is not fantasy. Back when staff fighting was first developed they didn't have all the advanced knowledge of metallurgy that they've got today. There is no reason why modern technology and modern engineering can't be applied to old fashioned tools, unless you want to be strictly a traditionalist.

There's no reason... but titanium isn't inexpensive, and it's brittle, and not particularly easy to work with. Why not just use iron or steel or brass?

One more thing about using metal... there's a difference between jewelry quality metals and what you'd want for a fighting staff.

 

[PhotonGuy]

There's no reason... but titanium isn't inexpensive, and it's brittle, and not particularly easy to work with. Why not just use iron or steel or brass?

One more thing about using metal... there's a difference between jewelry quality metals and what you'd want for a fighting staff.

Well the fact of the matter is, titanium has been used to make baseball bats, tennis racquets, lacrosse sticks and other such sporting gear that takes impact because of its strength. It might be a bit pricey but some people might pay a little extra for it.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Well the fact of the matter is, titanium has been used to make baseball bats, tennis racquets, lacrosse sticks and other such sporting gear that takes impact because of its strength. It might be a bit pricey but some people might pay a little extra for it.

Sure. To quote PT Barnum... "There's a sucker born every minute."

I know people who have paid quite a premium (not on my recommendation) to buy titanium SCUBA regulators. That's fine, so long as you're only diving air.
But what happens when you decide to extend your bottom times by taking a NITROX course? Or, even worse, a tech diving course?
You find out that your incredibly expensive regulator, which doesn't actually do ANYTHING any better than a traditional regulator, cannot be safely used with nitrox.
Because they cause fires.
They are supposedly safe with air (21% O2), but I wouldn't use a regulator that does this:

with any gas. Nope. I might take it camping, though, and use it to start my fire.

There are always people who will pay more for a gimmick, even when that gimmick doesn't actually provide any benefit.
These people are not wise.

 

[Chrisoro]

Probably bought by the same people who buy super expensive HDMI cables with gold plated contacts.

 

[JowGaWolf]

From the little bit that I know about blades and swords having flexibility is a good thing so long as it allows the sword to go back to it's original shape. Swords that are too hard will break from the impact. This is what happens when a sword has no flexibility.

titanium has been used to make baseball bats, tennis racquets, lacrosse sticks and other such sporting gear

Yes these things take an impact, but the impact isn't metal to metal. The impact of lacrosse sticks is not the same impact or weight as a bladed weapon. I have yet to see a stress test for a titanium blade. If the blade doesn't flex then it will snap
.

 

[Chris Parker]

I don't think this is the case with the person who originally asked about the metal tip. I can only assume that the metal tip from his question isn't a spearhead or something else that would serve a function. What you are describing is something that was made for a purpose which requires the metal end to achieve that purpose. My comments are entirely based on a staff with a metal cap on the end of a staff.

And I was giving you an example of a metal tipped staff… with multiple rings at each end (including ones that basically are at the "tip" of each end). You said you couldn't think of a reason… I gave you a few. Ideally, you might take this as an indication that there is more in this area than you're familiar with.

If the person's idea of a metal tip = Spearhead then we would be having a totally different conversation, and the staff would no longer be a staff but a spear.

Er… yeah? And? Who was bringing up the idea of a blade?

Because titanium is a very strong and durable metal and has been used in many types of sporting goods equipment.

Oh dear lord… so what?

Dude. We're talking classical weapon use… so "technological advancements" beyond what was around in the time of the weapon are irrelevant and out of place. Sporting goods are nothing like what is being discussed… and, again, you're in the realm of fantasy weapons here.

Technological advancements is not fantasy. Back when staff fighting was first developed they didn't have all the advanced knowledge of metallurgy that they've got today. There is no reason why modern technology and modern engineering can't be applied to old fashioned tools, unless you want to be strictly a traditionalist.

Hang on, are you saying that they didn't have an "advanced knowledge of metallurgy" when they were developing the use of these WOODEN weapons??? And therefore we should make these WOODEN weapons with a metal you think is "advanced" now???

Yes, this is fantasy.

From the little bit that I know about blades and swords having flexibility is a good thing so long as it allows the sword to go back to it's original shape. Swords that are too hard will break from the impact. This is what happens when a sword has no flexibility.

There are many things wrong with that "blade"… "flexibility" isn't quite it. Nor is it about coming "back to shape". There's a fair bit to cover, and it's a bit off topic here, so I'm not going to… but just know that there's a lot more to it than is being suggested.

Yes these things take an impact, but the impact isn't metal to metal. The impact of lacrosse sticks is not the same impact or weight as a bladed weapon. I have yet to see a stress test for a titanium blade. If the blade doesn't flex then it will snap.

This I agree with. Again, of course, there's a lot more to it… but… yeah.

 

[PhotonGuy]

Oh dear lord… so what?

Dude. We're talking classical weapon use… so "technological advancements" beyond what was around in the time of the weapon are irrelevant and out of place. Sporting goods are nothing like what is being discussed… and, again, you're in the realm of fantasy weapons here.

Some people see nothing wrong with making modern modifications to classical weapons. Somebody who strictly wants to be a traditionalist might be opposed to that and based on your posts, you sound like you do. Sporting goods might not be the main topic of discussion but its an example of how effective a metal such as titanium can be.

BTW something isn't fantasy if it exists. I see no reason why a titanium tipped staff couldn't be made, and if its made its not fantasy. It might not be historically accurate or traditionally accurate but its not fantasy.

And on a side note Im not your lord.

Hang on, are you saying that they didn't have an "advanced knowledge of metallurgy" when they were developing the use of these WOODEN weapons???

Certainly not like they do now.

And therefore we should make these WOODEN weapons with a metal you think is "advanced" now???

Yes, this is fantasy.

Back then it would be fantasy but not today.

 

[Tez3]

And on a side note Im not your lord.