From what I've seen of bo staffs and jo staffs they're usually made out of red oak or white oak. White oak is a bit stronger but a bit more expensive than red oak. Sometimes they're also made with bamboo. Anyway, I was wondering what other materials they're made with. How about teak? I know teak is a very good wood, one of the strongest woods there is so I think it would be good for staffs.
Material for staffs
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Like your question about steels for swords... Different woods have different properties that make them more or less useful. To be extreme -- a 6 ft balsa wood staff would be very light, but limited in strength for striking or blocking. I like hickory a lot of the time, ironwood is another type I like. Both have complex grain that gives a staff a lot of strength.
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You certainly wouldn't want to use balsa, it's way too weak and would snap on contact. Same thing with pine, its not strong enough. But teak is very strong and also very light and so it would probably make a very good staff. I don't know if it was teak you were referring to when you mentioned ironwood but teak sometimes is referred to as ironwood.
I wouldn't use teak for an impact weapon, it tends to splinter easily.
I would go with impact grade hickory as the best alternative. I have an old longsword waster that I made with hickory about 12 years ago that has held up just fine.
I would go with impact grade hickory as the best alternative. I have an old longsword waster that I made with hickory about 12 years ago that has held up just fine.
Longsword waster?
Wooden sword for HEMA practice, equivalent to a bokken for Japanese sword arts.
I love Hickory. I have used Birch a few time. I'm not sure about willow I guess it would depend on the planned usage
It's mostly about the splintering when the staff gets hit. You don't want large splinters coming out of the wood and impaling someone, somewhere important! I have some exotic woods but I mostly use my old hickory jo and bokken. They dent, but they don't splinter.
Poplar would probably work, not I suspect it will be soft compared to hickory and dent from impact.
I have never made a weapon out of walnut, but I have turned it, and my impression is that it is brittle.
I have never made a weapon out of walnut, but I have turned it, and my impression is that it is brittle.
ST1Doppelganger
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CMA usually use wax wood for their staffs and spears and the JMA usually use the oaks for their Bo and Jo.
Wax wood is flexible and shows the ging in the tip of it when practicing forms but can be used for impact training when you have a thicker piece.
The oaks are rigid and a hard wood that dosent show ging in the weapon but is hard and a good choice for impact weapon.
Both work and are good choices and both will break with heavy impact I believe wax wood is safer about splintering compared to oak since I've personally broken both during impact training.
Wax wood is flexible and shows the ging in the tip of it when practicing forms but can be used for impact training when you have a thicker piece.
The oaks are rigid and a hard wood that dosent show ging in the weapon but is hard and a good choice for impact weapon.
Both work and are good choices and both will break with heavy impact I believe wax wood is safer about splintering compared to oak since I've personally broken both during impact training.
Japanese White Oak is great.
Hickory is good as well.
However, after all the years I like rattan for training tools in general. Primarily because in IRT we do a lot of hard contact striking and there is less chance of a break as rattan tends to splinter rather than solidly break. Just a note though that rattan is used for training and a more dense hardwood is used for personal protection. (ie. white oak, hickory, kamagong, etc.)
Hickory is good as well.
However, after all the years I like rattan for training tools in general. Primarily because in IRT we do a lot of hard contact striking and there is less chance of a break as rattan tends to splinter rather than solidly break. Just a note though that rattan is used for training and a more dense hardwood is used for personal protection. (ie. white oak, hickory, kamagong, etc.)
Orange Lightning
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It kind of matters what you want to use the staff for. Different wood has different properties. Incoming wall of text.
Rattan is light and extremely flexible. In my experience, it splinters at the tips from excessive use and is easier to cut, but not so much break. I would recommend this to someone new to staff because potential injuries you can incur upon yourself with it are small. Plus, it's easier for a beginner to enjoy using compared to a heavier wood.
Hickory is very strong and dense. If you buy a walking stick that's supposed to be strong from a magazine, odd's are it's hickory. Hickory is also not uncommon for tools like shovels, axes, or hammers. Personally, I think it would be a bit overkill in weight for a staff. Not that it's weight wouldn't have it's uses. That's only a personal preference. Plus, because of it's density, it can hurt your hands if you hit solid objects too hard. I doubt it would be an issue in martial training. In this context, when I say solid, I mean immovable. All the shock just goes back in your hands. The same is true for any extremely hard wood. But again, that level of shock is unlikely for martial purposes.
I don't know exactly how oak compares to hickory, but it's definitely in the same category.
For training, an overly heavy stick is great.
I think chinese staffs are made out of palm? And those staffs look pretty flexible.
I really like Ironwood. It's just flexible enough to absorb the shock, really durable (but not quite as durable as hickory), and doesn't scratch or scuff as easily as other woods. And yet, surprisingly light. Not light exactly, but not as heavy as you would expect for it's hardness.
I once read on a forum that "ironwood" was just the local name for whatever the strongest local wood was. Take that how you will. According to that person, the North American version of "ironwood" is called Hornbeam. I can confirm that my "ironwood" is Hornbeam.
Ash was traditional for a lot of spears in Europe. Haven't handled this one, although I've heard it's a mix of flexible and strong. According to About , British quarterstaffs were made from hazel, ash, oak, or blackthorn.
In my opinion, maple is a lighter hardwood. This could just be that the species of maple I've handled have been lighter. There are a lot of kinds of maple.
Maple is a good example to point out how different the properties of different woods can be. Compared to other hardwoods, maple is lighter. It is very stout. No flexibility at all. However, it can be broken with excessive tension or force. I recommend jo length only as a bo length would be easy to break. It's also easily scuffed.
For a lot of people, maple is a good wood for a walking stick. Light and stout, strong enough, and it can be pretty.
Can't say I've ever handled a Walnut stick. Or heard of anyone trying. I don't know about the properties of Walnut.
The famous Shillelagh is made from Blackthorn. Notoriously heavy and strong. Beautiful too.
There I've heard of sticks being made from other materials. Like hazel, cypress, and sassafrass.
Are you planning on making your own staff or stick? If so, some things to consider.
The longer your stick is, the easier it will be to break. Don't mistake flexibility for weakness. At the same time, don't mistake a lack of it for strength. I don't recommend engravings because they usually splinter easily.
Shape is a complicated thing. Thickness, curvature, taper, whether or not to have grooves for hand grips, whether or not to have a head of some sort, etc. there's a lot that can go into the shape. Some things can be unexpectedly useful. A curve toward the end of a stick for example, can act as a grip and to help your hand stop at the start of the stick and not to slide off. Or, when swinging, wet or weak hands are less likely to lose the staff.
TEST your stick's durability (when it's dry) before putting too much work into it. It's possible that it's rotted, damaged, or structurally unsound in a way you can't see. I have learned this the hard way. At the same time, you don't need to push this too hard. A lesser strength wood that would be a perfectly serviceable stick can be broken. Test it within reason. Don't be fooled by a wood's seemingly impressive strength. It's still wood, and it can still break.
You can kind of feel from striking a surface if it's close to breaking. Just barely. But once it reaches that point, it midas well be broken completely anyway. But not all woods break the same. For example, a maple stick will probably break completely. Hornbeam will have bits of it damaged first before cracking. Rattan seems to splinter in long strips and will not break off completely. Ever. It will only crack and starting splitting a section off of it. Duct tape can keep it running for a long time.
Flexibility helps to reduce the shock that reverberates into your hands from striking things. Flexible wood is usually lighter than harder woods. If you're ever going to use your stick to assist in moving around (canes, "pole vaulting" getting over streams, etc.) you want it to be hard. An overly flexible stick will bend and possibly just crush under your weight.
Some recommend not to peel the bark until after the stick dries. It will be a lot harder to remove the bark, but it is believed to improve the durability.
Mostly, it's just about what you want the stick to do. A lot of wood will do fine. Although, some wouldn't be keen choices. Balsawood like JKS said. I wouldn't recommend or pine or....well, various types of wood I've encountered but haven't been able to identify. Poplar seems alright. Similar issues to maple.
I also might suggest not putting varnish of any kind on one of your sticks. If you use it often, the oils in your hands will work the stick from your use, and it will become shiny and smooth.
Rattan is light and extremely flexible. In my experience, it splinters at the tips from excessive use and is easier to cut, but not so much break. I would recommend this to someone new to staff because potential injuries you can incur upon yourself with it are small. Plus, it's easier for a beginner to enjoy using compared to a heavier wood.
Hickory is very strong and dense. If you buy a walking stick that's supposed to be strong from a magazine, odd's are it's hickory. Hickory is also not uncommon for tools like shovels, axes, or hammers. Personally, I think it would be a bit overkill in weight for a staff. Not that it's weight wouldn't have it's uses. That's only a personal preference. Plus, because of it's density, it can hurt your hands if you hit solid objects too hard. I doubt it would be an issue in martial training. In this context, when I say solid, I mean immovable. All the shock just goes back in your hands. The same is true for any extremely hard wood. But again, that level of shock is unlikely for martial purposes.
I don't know exactly how oak compares to hickory, but it's definitely in the same category.
For training, an overly heavy stick is great.
I think chinese staffs are made out of palm? And those staffs look pretty flexible.
I really like Ironwood. It's just flexible enough to absorb the shock, really durable (but not quite as durable as hickory), and doesn't scratch or scuff as easily as other woods. And yet, surprisingly light. Not light exactly, but not as heavy as you would expect for it's hardness.
I once read on a forum that "ironwood" was just the local name for whatever the strongest local wood was. Take that how you will. According to that person, the North American version of "ironwood" is called Hornbeam. I can confirm that my "ironwood" is Hornbeam.
Ash was traditional for a lot of spears in Europe. Haven't handled this one, although I've heard it's a mix of flexible and strong. According to About , British quarterstaffs were made from hazel, ash, oak, or blackthorn.
In my opinion, maple is a lighter hardwood. This could just be that the species of maple I've handled have been lighter. There are a lot of kinds of maple.
Maple is a good example to point out how different the properties of different woods can be. Compared to other hardwoods, maple is lighter. It is very stout. No flexibility at all. However, it can be broken with excessive tension or force. I recommend jo length only as a bo length would be easy to break. It's also easily scuffed.
For a lot of people, maple is a good wood for a walking stick. Light and stout, strong enough, and it can be pretty.
Can't say I've ever handled a Walnut stick. Or heard of anyone trying. I don't know about the properties of Walnut.
The famous Shillelagh is made from Blackthorn. Notoriously heavy and strong. Beautiful too.
There I've heard of sticks being made from other materials. Like hazel, cypress, and sassafrass.
Are you planning on making your own staff or stick? If so, some things to consider.
The longer your stick is, the easier it will be to break. Don't mistake flexibility for weakness. At the same time, don't mistake a lack of it for strength. I don't recommend engravings because they usually splinter easily.
Shape is a complicated thing. Thickness, curvature, taper, whether or not to have grooves for hand grips, whether or not to have a head of some sort, etc. there's a lot that can go into the shape. Some things can be unexpectedly useful. A curve toward the end of a stick for example, can act as a grip and to help your hand stop at the start of the stick and not to slide off. Or, when swinging, wet or weak hands are less likely to lose the staff.
TEST your stick's durability (when it's dry) before putting too much work into it. It's possible that it's rotted, damaged, or structurally unsound in a way you can't see. I have learned this the hard way. At the same time, you don't need to push this too hard. A lesser strength wood that would be a perfectly serviceable stick can be broken. Test it within reason. Don't be fooled by a wood's seemingly impressive strength. It's still wood, and it can still break.
You can kind of feel from striking a surface if it's close to breaking. Just barely. But once it reaches that point, it midas well be broken completely anyway. But not all woods break the same. For example, a maple stick will probably break completely. Hornbeam will have bits of it damaged first before cracking. Rattan seems to splinter in long strips and will not break off completely. Ever. It will only crack and starting splitting a section off of it. Duct tape can keep it running for a long time.
Flexibility helps to reduce the shock that reverberates into your hands from striking things. Flexible wood is usually lighter than harder woods. If you're ever going to use your stick to assist in moving around (canes, "pole vaulting" getting over streams, etc.) you want it to be hard. An overly flexible stick will bend and possibly just crush under your weight.
Some recommend not to peel the bark until after the stick dries. It will be a lot harder to remove the bark, but it is believed to improve the durability.
Mostly, it's just about what you want the stick to do. A lot of wood will do fine. Although, some wouldn't be keen choices. Balsawood like JKS said. I wouldn't recommend or pine or....well, various types of wood I've encountered but haven't been able to identify.
Poplar seems alright. Similar issues to maple. I also might suggest not putting varnish of any kind on one of your sticks. If you use it often, the oils in your hands will work the stick from your use, and it will become shiny and smooth.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
And here was I thinking we'd established that you actually had no experience or background with staff work… I mean… not liking hickory or oak… being worried about the return impact (without knowing how that's actually dealt with)… and all that stuff at the end? Yeah… maybe not so much helpful…
Orange Lightning
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According to this source, Lignum Vitae is amazing, but isn't stable. It gets damaged by differences in humidity.
AikiWeb Aikido Information Weapons Woods for Training Weapons
Orange Lightning
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You established that was what you thought. Many, many times.
I'm starting to think you only reading for what I might be wrong about just so you can point it out.
I said the issue of shock going back into your hands isn't likely to be an issue in martial arts. Still, I think it's worth mentioning.
I did not say I didn't like hickory or oak. I said I thought it was a bit overkill for martial arts. Both are heavy and powerful, and there is no reason why either aren't effective. Personally, I prefer a slightly lighter staff. In other words, it isn't my "favorite". I'm not saying I dislike hickory or oak or that they wouldn't be good choices.
Well, if one is planning to make their own stick, it is. If not, then it isn't. It's relevant to toss in to the conversation.
Chris Parker
Grandmaster
You think it's a bit of an overkill, yet… oak is the single most common wood used in Japanese arts. Hickory is it's closest North American counterpart, sharing many properties (properties which have been noted to be practically ideal for wooden training weapons and real ones), making it a very good substitute… and really, if you think it's not going to be an issue for martial artists, who exactly do you think you're on a forum with?
