Mass Slaughter in our schools

[Marginal]

This is the type of thing the terrorists want. It does not matter to them that America would go ape and probably nuke every inch of the area of Pakistan that Osama Bin Laden is hiding out in. They think that America does not have the guts to go for the long haul and they can wear Americans down to ultimate victory. And there is some reasons to understand why they think that way.

Historically, the terrorists tend to want heavy responses to their (relative) pinpricks. It makes the antagonized country/entity look crazy and it causes them to over commit resources in largely symbolic and ineffective (but large) responses. They're banking on further ham-fisted responses, not a slackening of resolve. The longer they continue to goad fruitless responses, the more they tie down their target and drain their resources etc. Eventually, it's not a matter of being resolute, it's a matter of eventually not having the resources to continue the flailing.

Just look at Osama's recent tapes. Cheering on the Democrats, saying every single thing (do we have to call them Islamomarxists now?) designed to reinforce further stupid mistakes by the current administration, and from types like Liberman etc.

 

[fireman00]

school buses will be the first soft target. Easy to setup an ambush for them - big, yellow and make lots of stops.

 

[Makalakumu]

I wonder if anyone else realizes just how crazy this thread sounds. How did we ever get this way? How can we stop people from wanting to do this to us? Are these questions impossible to answer? Or are the people involved "mere animals who hate our freedom" as we are taught?

I don't believe that the impulse to kill another families children popped out of nowhere...

 

[fireman00]

look at how long the Israelites have been under attack; how many children were murdered? Look at how many Palestinian children have been murdered in retaliation? All in the name of the "Palestinian homeland" .

There seems to be a disconnect in the minds of terrorists who kill in the name of their favorite belief that children that belong to their society have intrinsic value while the children of their enemies which have no value.

Just look at Mr. Timothy McVay and company; they had no qualms about killing 19 children.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I wonder if anyone else realizes just how crazy this thread sounds. How did we ever get this way? How can we stop people from wanting to do this to us? Are these questions impossible to answer? Or are the people involved "mere animals who hate our freedom" as we are taught?

I don't believe that the impulse to kill another families children popped out of nowhere...

Why the constant impulse to figure out what WE did to deserve this? WE arent flying planloads off innocent people into civillian buildings. And before its even mentioned, there is a HUGE difference between planned mass murder of civillians and civillian casualities in war, or the handfull of cases of soldiers murdering civillians, regardless of how the libs/media would like to paint it.

The constant quest for BLAMING THE USA sounds like people blaming women for the way they dress, where they drink and who they speak with for rape. While it can be argued that those may have been factors in why the event occurred, its a big leap to say it was their FAULT or somehow that they DESERVED it.

How can we stop them? How can we stop criminals? How do we MAKE anybody do what we want? We cant. We do our best to prevent it, we prepare for the worst case and we KILL those who are preparing to kill us.

 

[Makalakumu]

The constant quest for BLAMING THE USA sounds like people blaming women for the way they dress, where they drink and who they speak with for rape. While it can be argued that those may have been factors in why the event occurred, its a big leap to say it was their FAULT or somehow that they DESERVED it.

I don't agree with the comparison. On an international level, no one is isolated. No one innocent. Comparing the actions of individuals and extrapolating that on societies is a sociologic no no. This is a fight between two peoples who have a history of conflict that goes a long way back. How do we diffuse this, or do we just keep striking and hoping that the problem will go away?

In no way to my questions imply that we deserve any sort of attack. Lets analyze this anonymous comment in order to tease out what I am saying...

I have to agree with Blotan, asking this type of thing is like asking what the Tsutis did to deserve being slaughtered or what a woman did to be raped.

What did the tutsi do to the hutus to piss them off so badly? Do you really think that the tutsi's were innocent and that the hutus massacred them because they were evil? Perhaps if you bother to scratch the surface, you'd find that there was more then meets the eye. Jared Diamond chronicles the massacre from a historical point of view in his book Collapse. Both of these groups were competing for the same resources and the Tutsi, despite being the minority, were on top. As the population grew, a series of massecres that went back and forth were committed. When the Hutus seized power, they organized and responded.

While it's easier and emotionally comforting to view this problem as black and white, I feel that this only glosses over the real complexity of the issue. In the end, it leads to an illogical world view where one side can do nothing wrong and everyone is an enemy.

Here's another part of the comment that I found interesting...

It also seems to be an attempt to divert attention away from the subject of what to do.

This comment hints that the poster has a subset of ideas that he feels are appropriate and that no others or other ways of looking at this will be accepted. It is an example of what happens when black and white thinking limits your perceptions so that everything conforms to a particular bias.

I see all of this as a tit for a tat type of thing. If one group "****" then another group "tats". If one group stops titting then the other group stops "tatting".

This is a classic replay of the prisoner's dilemma, except that both sides have forgotten the solution.

 

[Mr. E]

Why the constant impulse to figure out what WE did to deserve this? WE arent flying planloads off innocent people into civillian buildings. And before its even mentioned, there is a HUGE difference between planned mass murder of civillians and civillian casualities in war, or the handfull of cases of soldiers murdering civillians, regardless of how the libs/media would like to paint it.

The constant quest for BLAMING THE USA sounds like people blaming women for the way they dress, where they drink and who they speak with for rape. While it can be argued that those may have been factors in why the event occurred, its a big leap to say it was their FAULT or somehow that they DESERVED it.

I have to agree with you.

There is always someone who commits the first act, or elevates things to a certain level.

At that point, to ask what the victim did to deserve it is an insult.

If no one thought about targeting a school full of children without prior example, then how could anybody have done the first act?

In war, not every bullet hits its mark. But that is not the same as targetting innocents. If trying to avoid civilian deaths but not always being able to do so when dealing with terrorists that hide behind women and children really is no better than targetting kids from the outset, then maybe America should save all the cash it spends on precise munitions to take out only a few people and go with less expensive bombs that take out entire neighborhoods along with the terrorists.

Or should America just not try to take out people that kill Americans?

 

[Blotan Hunka]

From a tactical viewpoint, in this situation LE is dealing with something more akin to war than to a hostage situation. Sitting around and waiting only allows the terrorists to "dig in" they cant be negotiated with and the goal is mass slaughter. If I were in command in a situation like this I would have snipers pick off targets of opportunity and make entry before the terrorists have time to fortify.

 

[Blotan Hunka]

I have to agree with you.

There is always someone who commits the first act, or elevates things to a certain level.

At that point, to ask what the victim did to deserve it is an insult.

If no one thought about targeting a school full of children without prior example, then how could anybody have done the first act?

In war, not every bullet hits its mark. But that is not the same as targetting innocents. If trying to avoid civilian deaths but not always being able to do so when dealing with terrorists that hide behind women and children really is no better than targetting kids from the outset, then maybe America should save all the cash it spends on precise munitions to take out only a few people and go with less expensive bombs that take out entire neighborhoods along with the terrorists.

Or should America just not try to take out people that kill Americans?

I equate it to. "Your neighbor continually swears at you and your children, flips you the finger, races his car past your house and plays loud music at all hours so you sneak over in the middle of the night and burn down his house and his surrounding neighbors houses just to be sure."

The pre WW-II Germans had some legitimate gripes too, but can one argue that their victims deserved what happened or have some sort of responsibility for it? Thats what it boils down to for me. Theres a huge gap between looking for influences regarding anothers actions and having RESPONSIBILITY for anothers actions.

 

[grydth]

school buses will be the first soft target. Easy to setup an ambush for them - big, yellow and make lots of stops.

Not bad reasoning, from the killers' point of view. After all, attacking busses in Israel with homiide bombers was quite successful... tactically. One could argue that if one really wanted to terrorize America, hitting schools, busses and malls during holiday season would scare everyone more than another attack on NYC.

But... it is a double edged sword. This Forum is a microcosm of America.... look at the deep divisions....

United We Stand??? Not for the last few years! Blame lying incompetent Bush or weak defeatist Democrats if you want, but it doesn't matter. We're losing.

Whether the conflict in Iraq is just or imperialist, the *** know now they can outlast us. Just keep feeding homicide bombers and Iranian IED's in and eventually we'll fold our tents, declare victory and slink away, leaving the field to them......unless.... something happens....

Start killing our kids and neighbors and you would see a surge - universal - of homicidal retaliatory rage. At grass roots level. Irresistable. The Islamoloonies could go from the road to victory to swirling ashes in a mushroom cloud. They can preach all the hate they want in their 'religious schools'.... but they'd best not encourage us to unite and hate them back.

Iran, after all, is only an elementary school, a bus and a mall from being uninhabitable for the next thousand years.