Martial arts shouldn't take years to learn.

[Juany118]

The OPs premise wrong imo. There is a spectrum of expertise; neophyte, novice, journeyman, expert, master or whatever synonyms you wish to use for the above terms.

I am a proficient fighter, it didn't take me years and years, I would likely put myself in the "journeyman" of sorts. One day I may redefine my skill level but that is a matter of not only time but effort.

The same applies to boxers. The best boxers start training in their youth and only after a few years of competition as teenagers as an amature move onto the pros. Even then it is usually many fights before people start saying they have adjusted to the pro level and even then they often get "better". You do have the occasional prodigy but it's all about hard work overtime, it's just that the "bigs" like Mayweather are essentially prodigies that bust the curve.

I will say TMAs are more complicated. You can have a prodigy that kicks butt as a fighter, who has the technical skill of a "master". Some TMAs would indeed call this prodigy a "master", others however have strong elements in their art that go beyond the fighting. Often these "soft skills", meditation, traditional medicine, philosophical understanding etc, take more time to learn and master than the "fighting" aspect. I would say an example of this would be Bruce Lee. By all accounts he was a good fighter as a kid, it took many years however for him to master his temper (which he only partially did) and become mature enough to start looking at the philosophical portion of the Martial Arts which brought him to the conclusion that in order to put his Philosophy into practice he would have to create his own Martial Art, which resulted in even more years of study to find the elements which fit with his Philosophy.

 

[Tarrycat]

Scones with real butter & strawberry, or apricot jam...

 

[Tez3]

Scones with real butter & strawberry, or apricot jam...

and Cornish cream!

 

[JR 137]

Be sure to drink your Ovaltine.

 

[Tez3]

Be sure to drink your Ovaltine.

??

 

[Danny T]

The OPs premise wrong imo. There is a spectrum of expertise; neophyte, novice, journeyman, expert, master or whatever synonyms you wish to use for the above terms.

I am a proficient fighter, it didn't take me years and years, I would likely put myself in the "journeyman" of sorts. One day I may redefine my skill level but that is a matter of not only time but effort.

The same applies to boxers. The best boxers start training in their youth and only after a few years of competition as teenagers as an amature move onto the pros. Even then it is usually many fights before people start saying they have adjusted to the pro level and even then they often get "better". You do have the occasional prodigy but it's all about hard work overtime, it's just that the "bigs" like Mayweather are essentially prodigies that bust the curve.

I will say TMAs are more complicated. You can have a prodigy that kicks butt as a fighter, who has the technical skill of a "master". Some TMAs would indeed call this prodigy a "master", others however have strong elements in their art that go beyond the fighting. Often these "soft skills", meditation, traditional medicine, philosophical understanding etc, take more time to learn and master than the "fighting" aspect. I would say an example of this would be Bruce Lee. By all accounts he was a good fighter as a kid, it took many years however for him to master his temper (which he only partially did) and become mature enough to start looking at the philosophical portion of the Martial Arts which brought him to the conclusion that in order to put his Philosophy into practice he would have to create his own Martial Art, which resulted in even more years of study to find the elements which fit with his Philosophy.

FYI...Mayweather trained for years beginning around 3 years of age and had 92 official fights as a amateur (84-8). This doesn't include the many club fights or smokers. When he turned pro in 1996 he had been training for 16 years.

 

[Tarrycat]

and Cornish cream!

I've never tasted Cornish cream or tea, Tez.

I've only tasted it with normal whipped cream...

What does it taste like? . We have the plain Five Roses tea (I think it's plain English tea?), & then Rooibos. Rooibos is the good stuff! We drink it with honey.

I drink a lot of green tea for energy during the day as well. Not very fond of the bitter taste, but it's the only thing so far that maintains my energy levels throughout the day. I take it with to the dojo, to class, to the gym, you name it.

 

[Tarrycat]

Be sure to drink your Ovaltine.

Milo!

 

[Tarrycat]

??

Ovaltine is a hot beverage. It's like Milo, Cocoa, Hot Chocolate, or Horlicks. It's made of malt extract sugar. It's just a little too sweet in my opinion!

 

[Tez3]

Ovaltine is a hot beverage. It's like Milo, Cocoa, Hot Chocolate, or Horlicks. It's made of malt extract sugar. It's just a little too sweet in my opinion!

Yep, it's drunk here before going to bed, some say it's to help you sleep but as you say it's sweet so we know why people are actually drinking it before bedtime!

Cornish ( and Devon) cream is delicious. Clotted cream - Wikipedia

 

[Juany118]

FYI...Mayweather trained for years beginning around 3 years of age and had 92 official fights as a amateur (84-8). This doesn't include the many club fights or smokers. When he turned pro in 1996 he had been training for 16 years.

I was more referring to his "out of the gate" pro wins. Usually you need to "find your legs"

 

[JR 137]

??

I’ll excuse you for not knowing the movie, being British all.

 

[MasterArtMason]

This whole "years to master" philosphy is pretty unique to East Asian martial arts--and even then there are exceptions, like muay thai, where a guy can become an excellent fighter in a relatively short amount of time.

When I see a kickboxer or a krav maga guy who's spent a measely year in training hold his own against a karateka who's spent two decades on kata and kibadachi stance or whatever, I feel bad for the karateka. I get it that some people want the "authentic" tradition (or what they think is authentic tradition), but it seems like a waste of time to me.

Comments?

PS

I have some years of experience in Shotokan, so I'm not speaking from a place of ignorance. I feel that life is so much more than "mastering fighting" or becoming the mythical "master martial artist."

There is also a psychology to all this. Some people do not need a martial art to be effective on the street or in a ring. Plus as someone previously stated there is a difference between proficiency and mastery.

Have a great day!

 

[Tony Dismukes]

I've made much the same point, if you cant,BETTER defend yourself after learning ma, they there is something wrong with either you or it.

but after that its very difficult to define or test, as there is no standard maist and no standard attacker.

but if you apply a statistical approach, then 80 % of the male adult population isn't very fit ie strong, fast good cardio and balance and reactions. In fact 50% of them are notably unfit. If you are up there, in the top 20 30 40 % of the population. Then skills associated with say a yellow belt, should be more than adequate to defend yourself against the vast majority of people, so that's a year max .

if your lacking in the. Fitness department and come up against someone who is not lacking, then you will have a problem no matter how long you have been studying

Good points.

I have some new students come in who have no martial arts experience, but they are strong, fast, coordinated, aggressive, mentally tough, and they may have been in fights before or grown up wrestling with their siblings. These guys won't necessarily become masters overnight, but they don't take long to develop reliable skills they could use in a fight.

I have other new students come in who are physically timid, out of shape, out of touch with their own bodies, and have a hard time not tripping over their own feet when they drill techniques. These students take much longer to develop usable skills. (For the record, I was one of these students when I started out. It took a long time before I got to the point of sparring professional fighters.)

For self-defense purposes, it's important to realize that you aren't training to defeat the average out-of-shape couch potato who has never been in a fight. Those guys aren't so likely to be attacking you on the street. Being able to beat half the population doesn't mean much when half the population can't fight. If you have to defend yourself, it's more likely that you're dealing with a young guy who has too much testosterone and a history of violence.

 

[oftheherd1]

Yep, it's drunk here before going to bed, some say it's to help you sleep but as you say it's sweet so we know why people are actually drinking it before bedtime!

Cornish ( and Devon) cream is delicious. Clotted cream - Wikipedia

My mother was raised so far back in the Ozark mountains I don't think they WWI was on until they happened to hear it was over (not really ). But they did learn not to waste any food. She learned to drink clabbered milk, in fact enjoyed it. What is Clabbered Milk? (with pictures) says

Clabbered milk is milk which has been allowed to naturally sour, becoming thick, tangy, and very rich. It is often sold in grocery stores, where it is called buttermilk. It is among a family of cultured dairy products which have been consumed for centuries, and in many regions of the world, this sour milk is a very popular drink and cooking ingredient. Many stores sell a pasteurized version, and it is also possible to make this ingredient at home.

The word "clabber" comes from the Irish language, and it means "to thicken." If clabbered milk is allowed to thicken long enough, it becomes clotted cream, a popular spread from scones in many parts of the United Kingdom and Ireland. This cultured milk can also be drunk straight, plain or flavored, and it is especially popular in the American South over ice. Because clabbered milk is more shelf-stable than regular milk, it is often the milk product of choice in areas with spotty or no refrigeration, and for much of the world, fresh milk is a relatively recent delicacy.

But it wasn't considered butter milk, but more or less spoiled (or clabbered) milk. As a kid I didn't like either clabbered milk or butter milk. Butter milk was a slightly cloudy liquid by-product of churning butter (which I, being youngest, got to do often . Both my parents liked butter milk. I just liked the home made butter.

OK, back to ... what was it?

 

[Danny T]

I was more referring to his "out of the gate" pro wins. Usually you need to "find your legs"

Well his first several pro fights were against very low level fighters. 1st pro fight was a scheduled 4 round against another pro debut fighter who only had a few amateur fights and retired with a 1 & 5 pro record. Second fight was another scheduled 4 rd vs Reggie Sanders. This was Sanders 3 pro fight (1&1) at the time and ended up with a pro record of 12-47-4. Floyd's 3rd fight was against Jerry Cooper who was put on the canvas with a Jab in the first round.His 4th was vs Edgar Ayala. Was Ayala's debut who retired with a 1 & 3 record.
Wasn't until his 6th fight that he fought a winning record fighter who was planning on and did retire after his fight with Mayweather. My point is Floyd's pro career was brought up slowly and vs low level fighters or fighters beyond their prime allowing him to build his wining resume' as he was finding his pro legs which was smart of his camp.

 

[oftheherd1]

There is also a psychology to all this. Some people do not need a martial art to be effective on the street or in a ring. Plus as someone previously stated there is a difference between proficiency and mastery.

Have a great day!

I don't know as I would classify it as psychology so much as physiology and experience. But no doubt, as you said in your 2nd sentence, and as Tony Dismukes also stated, some come to martial arts better equipped to learn and fight that others. I was also one that started martial arts class with 3 feet and half a mind.

You might want to go to the Meet and Greet sub forum and tell us a little about yourself.

 

[Tez3]

I’ll excuse you for not knowing the movie, being British all.

It's not a kids drink here though, it's for oldies and sickies. It wouldn't be drunk through the day as it's a 'bedtime' drink like cocoa ( unlike hot chocolate though which can be drunk anytime)

 

[Tarrycat]

Yep, it's drunk here before going to bed, some say it's to help you sleep but as you say it's sweet so we know why people are actually drinking it before bedtime!

Cornish ( and Devon) cream is delicious. Clotted cream - Wikipedia

I will have a look at the cornish cream!

It could be sweet, or perhaps my grandmother just abused our sugar intake at that time... I would go with the latter.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I will have a look at the cornish cream!

It could be sweet, or perhaps my grandmother just abused our sugar intake at that time... I would go with the latter.

In the US, it's almost always (in my experience) just called "clotted cream" (as the linked article indicated), so some variation of that might be the standard in SA, too.

Knowing the Brits (and Americans) there's probably some difference between Cornish cream and Devon (Devonish??) cream of which we in America are largely unaware.