Martial Arts Seminars

[Mark Lynn]

£25-£30

Paul, somehow or another I once again disagreed with a post that I knew NOTHING about. I checked on the list to see who disagreed with you and lo and behold it was me. I have to stop looking at MT on my damn phone. I removed my rating.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Never underestimate the ability of an online troll to try to be disagreeable!

Sorry Buckeroo, I wasn't trolling, nor disagreeing to just disagree. For some reason when I scroll on my phone I somehow end up disagreeing with posts and of course I don't end up seeing that I did this until later, sometimes when people question me about why I disagreed in the first place (I see the alert). What a pain.

 

[Mark Lynn]

To much...not joking any seminar I've been to have been about 50 and are simply not worth the money I refuse to go to them now as I just don't see the point of paying all that for an 8th dan when my instructor is a 7th dan

Headhunter

Here I do have to disagree. But if I disagree generally I try and do it in writing and not by pressing some little X (unless it is by mistake, which when I looked at my profile page it still says there are two that I've given, but ...... I'm not going to chase those down to correct, but I digress). Anyway in all seriousness I've been to probably close to 700+ hours of seminar instruction over the past 35 years, under different instructors in a variety of martial arts and I can honestly say it's been worth it over all. Here is some of what I've gained from them.

1) My first seminar was with Dan Inosanto in 1982 as an Orange belt in American Karate/TKD. It was on the FMAs and in all honesty it changed the course of my martial arts study and career. Through his influence I went to see Master Chia Thai Boxing, Larry Hartsell (grappling), Tuhon Gaje (Pekiti Tirsa), Ted Luckay (JKD Kali), Tim Tackett (JKD), and really since he sparked my interest in the FMAs over all, in a round about way he is responsible for meeting a whole host of other FMA instructors as well outside of the JKD type influence.

2) Dan Inosanto also got me interested in taking notes at the seminars and writing stuff down (from his stories about Bruce Lee writing notes on everything when ideas hit him), I took it one step further and took notes whenever I trained, my classes and the seminars I attended. Why is this important to me? Because it is what I have used to teach from for many years as I developed my way of teaching. Over the years I took the time out to develop a system of note taking and then expanded it by writing it out first long hand and then into computers etc. etc. Believe it or not I still continue this practice today when I attend seminars.

3) I've gone to see the men on the Misty Mountain and because of them I've got an idea of what to strive to be like skill wise. The men on the Misty Mountain are the instructors who when you see them you feel like you are down in the valley and you can see a mountain far off on the distance half obscured by clouds and mist. You know it's there, but how to get there is unclear and uncertain, but the mountain is beyond description. It inspires you to go forward to seek it out. Of course the instructors are in a sense the mountain in this scenario, their skill level is awe inspiring, it makes you want to get better and study harder. By sacrificing and paying to see that level of instructors has helped me to strive to be a better teacher and instructor for my students. My karate sensei was like that for me in karate, yet seeing other teachers in arts like Aikijujitsu who's skills seem to border on magic, or the FMAs, or karate like with Oyata, etc. etc. they were at a whole different level it seemed.

4) Through seminars I've gotten to know and spend a lot of quality time with other students/workout partners and also instructors whom I've had friendships for over the past 20+ years. For instance last year we hosted GM Dieter Knuttel for a weekend seminar and he stayed with me at my house for a week. Not only did he share his knowledge with me in some private lessons at the house but we both have an interest in photography so we enjoyed time shooting pictures as well as guns. In 2015 we hosted him again but it was in the summer so my teenage daughter joined us on the photography trips. He graciously shared his knowledge of photography with her and sparked her interest in it as well.

I could go on but... I'll close with this. At a Martial Art business seminar that I went to, the speaker had us close our eyes and imagined all of the people we met in the martial arts, all of the accomplishments ....... If we could have all of the money spent on the martial arts back but we had to give up those memories would we? For me, because my instructor basically taught us for free at his house, all I saw was all of the seminars and camps I had been too, all of the late nights at the hotels training, the friends I made etc. etc. there was no way I would ever give that up for all of the money I spent. For me it has been a most worthwhile investment.

 

[Mark Lynn]

I've been to a lot of seminars, I've hosted quite a few, I've taught a few as well.
Some food for thought...

If you run a school, it can be incredibly helpful if you are on good terms with other schools in your area, or just outside of your area. If you host a seminar, invite, as your guests, a couple of instructors from each of these schools - for free. If you know the person teaching the seminar is top notch, you know your guests are going to love it. Then, in the following months or years, when you have the person down again, help the other school owners to set up seminars in their school on following days. With you and your top guys going for free of course.

Very true, networking is really important to having a successful seminar if you aren't part of a larger organization that can help fill the venue. Setting up venues for other schools can be difficult though (at least for us). Sometimes like when we had Dieter here in 2015/2016 he had other schools in other parts of the US and they helped spread the cost out. Normally our top guys would still be paying just to cover costs of hosting the instructor, but we tried to build in incentives for instructors like have 5 students paying and the 6th goes free etc. etc.

This will help keep costs lower due to the seminar instructor not paying for multiple airfares, it will make more cash for them (which will make them want to do it), and it will allow you more training time with that particular instructor. And it can foster some really good will amongst different schools - which will only help you, your knowledge and your students in positive ways.

It will also allow you to get a heck of a lot more out of their teaching than just that one day "wasn't that nifty" thing you get from a good seminar. And some times, it can lead to a whole lot more.

Totally agree. When I decided to try and host top tier level FMA instructors like GM Dieter Knuttel (in the Modern Arnis world), I did it by trying to net work with other instructors in the FMA world. When I went to the Modern Arnis reunion camp in 2011 when I factored in the cost of the camp, meals, lodging, airfare, rental car etc. etc. all told I figured I could host Dieter (who was teaching at the camp) for a whole weekend and not just see him teach for 2-3 hours during the seminar. It took me 4 years but the opportunity came about and we jumped at it. Still it has been hard work as we try and expand the marketing base to try and reach out to other FMAers.

However the training opportunity and the friendships developed by hosting these instructors is to me priceless. In 2015 we hosted Datu Dieter, SM Dan Anderson, and Datu Tim Hartman for seminars, in 2016 we hosted Dieter and Tim again, and in a couple of weeks we'll be having a seminar with Dan again. So I agree it has been a huge blessing to my students and our school(s) (two of my students started their own school so we co-host/co-promote) to have these kind of training relationships.

Networking wise we have been hosting MAPA (Metroplex Arnis Players Alliance) seminars events (short 4 hour seminars where we have 4 different instructors teach from 4 different schools or FMA styles, $20.00 and all of the proceeds are split equally amongst the instructors teaching), we've networked with another Modern Arnis school about 90 minutes away and we held monthly meetups and workout as we prepared our top students for black belt, and at our last seminar with Dieter we connected with a school in Houston who teaches Modern Arnis and we've had workouts (about 4-5 hours away). I'm now working with a group of American Karate/TKD instructors and their students on a Presas Arnis Instructors Course (1X a month), in hopes of them adding a Presas Arnis class to their schools in the future. All to try and expand our marketing base to reach a bigger audience in hopes of having enough people to attend seminars form those top level instructors in the future.

It's a lot of hard work but there are great benefits to networking with other schools.

If you're a student, a lot will depend on your experience. A six month white belt isn't going to get much more than the walk and chew gum ability that a six month white belt already has. But if you've got some seasoning to you, you should go and explore whatever is available in seminars within reasonable distances to you. It's good experience,(usually fun, as well) and it may open up entirely new avenues of thought, tactics, techniques and strategies to you.

Speaking of opening up new avenues, as I posted before my first FMA seminar with Dan Inosanto in 1982 changed the course of my martial arts study as an Orange belt.

I disagree with the "white belt part" unless it is in the same art. However if the seminar is in a completely different style then I believe both can be on equal footing. As a 4 year brown belt (1985) my wife and I attended a Dan Inosanto seminar at a school here in Dallas. Guro Dan is teaching on Chi Sau and he's working the room, with him I could do it, because he was like water, he just flowed; but with other students I was like Frankenstien (totally locked up) and frustrating the hell out of my wife. Dan's demonstrating and teaching on the drill and he looks around the room and selects my wife to come up there and do Chi Sau with him. She's rocking and rolling grooving with him when the JKD student next to me asked me "How long has she been doing Wing Chun?" I couldn't resist "Never, she does karate."

Anyway sometimes having a background holds you back.

Ask yourself this. Why would you go to a seminar? There's usually only a few answers, One is you want to learn, another is you always wanted to meet that guy, another is you're curious. (fill in the rest yourself) if it's lousy, the most you're out is a few bucks. But if it leads to something, or it triggers something, or if you just have a fairly enjoyable time - it's a win/win situation.

This is so true, my first seminar was really to meet the guy who taught Bruce Lee the sticks (the illustration used to sell me on the seminar was "Have you seen Enter the Dragon?" Me "Yeah", "Do you remember the dungeon scene?" Me "Yeah", "Well Dan's the guy who taught Bruce Lee the sticks" Me "I'm in" I went really to meet Dan knowing nothing about the FMAs and it changed my study of the martial arts.

The seminars I've taught were usually in schools I was familiar with, schools I've taught classes in at one time or another. I couldn't very well charge them, it didn't seem right. But they charged the students and gave me money anyway. You know what I did with that money? I spent it on seminars. Some fair, some nuts, some awful, but some really, really good. Had some great times, learned a whole lot of things, too.

In my opinion, if you're going to do the seminar thing - work the hell out of it. And have a ball.

Totally agree on this.

 

[Mark Lynn]

Just to clarify in my previous story about Guro Dan Inosanto and my wife, she was a Orange belt (my student when I taught American Karate/TKD in college) and I was a brown belt. She'd hadn't been training for over a year, never doing anything in the FMAs, JKD etc. etc. In the story I didn't really clarify that she was a total beginner.

 

[Headhunter]

Headhunter

Here I do have to disagree. But if I disagree generally I try and do it in writing and not by pressing some little X (unless it is by mistake, which when I looked at my profile page it still says there are two that I've given, but ...... I'm not going to chase those down to correct, but I digress). Anyway in all seriousness I've been to probably close to 700+ hours of seminar instruction over the past 35 years, under different instructors in a variety of martial arts and I can honestly say it's been worth it over all. Here is some of what I've gained from them.

1) My first seminar was with Dan Inosanto in 1982 as an Orange belt in American Karate/TKD. It was on the FMAs and in all honesty it changed the course of my martial arts study and career. Through his influence I went to see Master Chia Thai Boxing, Larry Hartsell (grappling), Tuhon Gaje (Pekiti Tirsa), Ted Luckay (JKD Kali), Tim Tackett (JKD), and really since he sparked my interest in the FMAs over all, in a round about way he is responsible for meeting a whole host of other FMA instructors as well outside of the JKD type influence.

2) Dan Inosanto also got me interested in taking notes at the seminars and writing stuff down (from his stories about Bruce Lee writing notes on everything when ideas hit him), I took it one step further and took notes whenever I trained, my classes and the seminars I attended. Why is this important to me? Because it is what I have used to teach from for many years as I developed my way of teaching. Over the years I took the time out to develop a system of note taking and then expanded it by writing it out first long hand and then into computers etc. etc. Believe it or not I still continue this practice today when I attend seminars.

3) I've gone to see the men on the Misty Mountain and because of them I've got an idea of what to strive to be like skill wise. The men on the Misty Mountain are the instructors who when you see them you feel like you are down in the valley and you can see a mountain far off on the distance half obscured by clouds and mist. You know it's there, but how to get there is unclear and uncertain, but the mountain is beyond description. It inspires you to go forward to seek it out. Of course the instructors are in a sense the mountain in this scenario, their skill level is awe inspiring, it makes you want to get better and study harder. By sacrificing and paying to see that level of instructors has helped me to strive to be a better teacher and instructor for my students. My karate sensei was like that for me in karate, yet seeing other teachers in arts like Aikijujitsu who's skills seem to border on magic, or the FMAs, or karate like with Oyata, etc. etc. they were at a whole different level it seemed.

4) Through seminars I've gotten to know and spend a lot of quality time with other students/workout partners and also instructors whom I've had friendships for over the past 20+ years. For instance last year we hosted GM Dieter Knuttel for a weekend seminar and he stayed with me at my house for a week. Not only did he share his knowledge with me in some private lessons at the house but we both have an interest in photography so we enjoyed time shooting pictures as well as guns. In 2015 we hosted him again but it was in the summer so my teenage daughter joined us on the photography trips. He graciously shared his knowledge of photography with her and sparked her interest in it as well.

I could go on but... I'll close with this. At a Martial Art business seminar that I went to, the speaker had us close our eyes and imagined all of the people we met in the martial arts, all of the accomplishments ....... If we could have all of the money spent on the martial arts back but we had to give up those memories would we? For me, because my instructor basically taught us for free at his house, all I saw was all of the seminars and camps I had been too, all of the late nights at the hotels training, the friends I made etc. etc. there was no way I would ever give that up for all of the money I spent. For me it has been a most worthwhile investment.

Well good but I still think they're a waste of time

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Paul, somehow or another I once again disagreed with a post that I knew NOTHING about. I checked on the list to see who disagreed with you and lo and behold it was me. I have to stop looking at MT on my damn phone. I removed my rating.

We're going to take away your "dislike" button, Mark. Your aim is terrible.

 

[Azulx]

Azulx, weren't you talking a while back about starting your own school? Or am I thinking of someone else?

If so, are you asking because you want to go to a seminar and want to see if the price is reasonable, or are you planning on offering one? If it's the former, are you talking about a seminar where you train in martial arts, or are you talking about a seminar where you learn about teaching or about running a school?

No, no not starting my own school. I was taking over as instructor of a small college club of white and yellow belts. I've been instructing them since late January. There is a local MMA fighter who I reached out to, to see if he would do a one day two hour striking seminar. I was asking for prices so I could negotiate a fair price with him and not suggest something ridiculous.

 

[Paul_D]

Funnily enough, last week I got invited to a seminar that cost £195 (reduced from £600). Needless to say I'll be giving that a miss.