Martial Arts Pet Peeves

[donald1]

I LOVE asking what ifs... making me an uke will not slow my what if questions. Albeit I do try limit them, and haven't asked any in a while... Also important not to interrupt the instructor.

One of my pet peeves, blocking at the wrist. Doesnt piss me off or anything but don't like it. I always go for the forearm. Block my wrist and my elbow whips around for the win, but I'm not supposed to do that since were training, plus I don't like hurting people anyways. Except for occasional bruises...

One of my pet peeves when teaching kids, immaturity. Kids acting up... the obvious solution is have them sit out for a bit but I hate being that guy even when its completely justified.

I don't think I've ever met immature adults... I have no doubt they exist but I haven't seen any in my dojo.

Honestly... it's hard to think about pet peeves. It bothers me a little when you tell people to kiai loud and they don't... or just outright don't kiai at all. I don't think I have much in the way of actual pet peeves.

 

[Buka]

I never saw this thread before, it was before my time here. But I sure do like it.

My pet peeves have changed over the years, as the Martial Arts have changed. My biggest used to be "cult" like Martial Organizations. They used to weasel money out of people who were just trying to be part of something they thought was good. Big money. I'm talking fifty to a hundred grand to video tape them and send the tape to the "Master overseas". Who, of course, said "Excellent potential, enroll him in the Master course."...for another fifty to a hundred grand.

I called the Feds on a couple of them, helped them investigate and shut them down, then prosecute.

I don't know if there's any cult stuff anymore, but they were my biggest pet peeve. I still hate them, can't let it go.

Now I have different pet peeves!

 

[Buka]

Lots of good ones already. One I didn't see was one of mine.
Parents who are in the fitness industry.

A 7 year old comes in and says 'my mom says you're supposed to do it this way'. It's just so helpful.

It would be one thing if she were correct. But I have yet to see that be so.

And - if she thought her child was doing something incorrect through improper instruction....and was too lazy or didn't care enough to actually come down and see for herself...

I've not had that particular thing happen, but if I did I'd give her child a note to take back to her inviting her down so we could discuss it.

Parents are great most times. But when they're not, what a royal pain in the backside.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Lots of good ones already. One I didn't see was one of mine.
Parents who are in the fitness industry.

A 7 year old comes in and says 'my mom says you're supposed to do it this way'. It's just so helpful.

Knowing kids, I'd give the benefit of the doubt here. There's a good chance that the mom had either been doing an exercise herself and the kid asked and got a response like "this is how I do it" rather than explaining the finer points of variations, or heard some comment that they misheard. Or were doing an exercise, their mom didn't know they were told to do it that way and made an adjustment. Or any number of things, really, kids are not all that reliable as messengers.

 

[Buka]

A pet peeve of mine is anyone teaching Martial Arts, be it traditional Martial Arts or non traditional Martial Arts, allowing disrespect among their students or fighters in their dojo, gym or whatever.

 

[isshinryuronin]

A pet peeve of mine is anyone teaching Martial Arts, be it traditional Martial Arts or non traditional Martial Arts, allowing disrespect among their students or fighters in their dojo, gym or whatever.

I have refrained from listing my pet peeves as the list would be too long and I would be known as a cranky old traditional sensei (For the record, I am not cranky, just demanding.)

But to comment on this post, I have rarely seen serious disrespect in any dojo I've been in (probably not as many as you but I've seen my share.) Certainly not ever in one where I was teaching.

I've mostly associated with the kinds of dojo where the instructor would smack down (sometimes literally) anyone who did not show respect to the school, teacher or student. So, perhaps my experience is limited. From past posts, Buka, I think you are understating your feelings on this topic by calling it a "pet peeve." For me, it would be a deal breaker. That's the one rule I brook no deviation from.

(Maybe I am a little cranky.)

 

[punisher73]

My biggest pet peeves are very close to another when I have been at events and teaching with other students within the organization, but not my own class/students.

1) "I Know..." any time you try to give input or feedback to a student and they just want to do it their own way (usually happens at events where there are other students.
2) I already know that: When you go to work on something and they are to closed minded to open it up.

The biggest one...."that's not how I learned it....."

 

[Balrog]

It's been slow on the boards, so I'll list some of mine.

...snip...

What are some of yours?

My biggest peeve is people being promoted that shouldn't be. I'll judge at tournaments and see someone in a Black Belt ring do a form and I'll ask myself, "Why is this person still not a Yellow Belt?"

My second is XMA. I think that speaks for itself.

 

[J. Pickard]

I strangely agree with parts of this "not all black belts are equal" but disagree with others (e.g. comparison to a "middle rank"). I think it comes from my belief (inline with Kukkiwon) that 1st Dan is a beginner rank. I think over inflation of what a 1st Dan is, that's the problem, and requiring years and years of training to achieve this beginner rank (although at our dojang 3 years is pretty common).

This bothers me just a bit, when TKD started Black belts was an advanced level. What was black belt in the 70's is like 4th Dan now a days. But I guess that all depends on what your definition of a black belt is and I will concede that it is okay for everyone to have their own definition.

 

[J. Pickard]

I never saw this thread before, it was before my time here. But I sure do like it.

My pet peeves have changed over the years, as the Martial Arts have changed. My biggest used to be "cult" like Martial Organizations. They used to weasel money out of people who were just trying to be part of something they thought was good. Big money. I'm talking fifty to a hundred grand to video tape them and send the tape to the "Master overseas". Who, of course, said "Excellent potential, enroll him in the Master course."...for another fifty to a hundred grand.

I called the Feds on a couple of them, helped them investigate and shut them down, then prosecute.

I don't know if there's any cult stuff anymore, but they were my biggest pet peeve. I still hate them, can't let it go.

Now I have different pet peeves!

The cults still exist, just most people don't realize it until they have already spent their life savings.

 

[Tez3]

I LOVE asking what ifs... making me an uke will not slow my what if questions. Albeit I do try limit them, and haven't asked any in a while... Also important not to interrupt the instructor.

One of my pet peeves, blocking at the wrist. Doesnt piss me off or anything but don't like it. I always go for the forearm. Block my wrist and my elbow whips around for the win, but I'm not supposed to do that since were training, plus I don't like hurting people anyways. Except for occasional bruises...

One of my pet peeves when teaching kids, immaturity. Kids acting up... the obvious solution is have them sit out for a bit but I hate being that guy even when its completely justified.

I don't think I've ever met immature adults... I have no doubt they exist but I haven't seen any in my dojo.

Honestly... it's hard to think about pet peeves. It bothers me a little when you tell people to kiai loud and they don't... or just outright don't kiai at all. I don't think I have much in the way of actual pet peeves.

Children aren't immature, they are children, with children's brains and behaviour patterns. They aren't immature adults. They act up because they are children, perhaps when teaching children adapt the classes to them rather than have them messing around. There's a reason teachers have to train to teach children, the psychology is different, attention spans are different, they way they learn is different from adults. It's a wonderful thing to inspire children and they will pay you back a hundredfold.

I'd also check if they actually want to be there, or the parents. Not the child's fault if they don't want to be there but they will respond better if you are understanding.

 

[andyjeffries]

This bothers me just a bit, when TKD started Black belts was an advanced level. What was black belt in the 70's is like 4th Dan now a days. But I guess that all depends on what your definition of a black belt is and I will concede that it is okay for everyone to have their own definition.

When Taekwondo started in Korea, black belt was seen as a pretty beginner rank. I don't think Korea has reduced the time before black belt, I think it's been consistently about a year. For example GM Park Hae-man did about 6 months of Taekwondo before the Korean War, then when the war ended (July 1953) he resumed/restarted training. He was promoted to 1st Dan in 1954.

Maybe when some early masters moved internationally, they built up what a black belt meant, expected more from their students (to make them more desirable?), but in Korea I think it's always been viewed as the first step on a lifetime's journey.

For what it's worth, Taekwondo isn't alone in this. Funakoshi Gichin Sensei promoted his first group of Shotokan Karate students to 1st Dan after about 18 months of training. Kano Jigoro Sensei promoted his first group of Judo students to 1st Dan after just over 1 year.

 

[MadMartigan]

For what it's worth, Taekwondo isn't alone in this. Funakoshi Gichin Sensei promoted his first group of Shotokan Karate students to 1st Dan after about 18 months of training. Kano Jigoro Sensei promoted his first group of Judo students to 1st Dan after just over 1 year.

With no disrespect intended, I do not believe these are comparable examples to today's timeframes. In the examples you cited, these were mostly experienced military men, training nearly full time under harsh conditions with high expectations. You can become pretty darn good at most skills under those circumstances.

To take that time frame and apply it to the recreational student who trains 3-4 hours a week (on padded floors, with air conditioning, and skips class on holidays) will never produce the same product. (Why I generally consider 4-5 years a minimum for an adult student to reach this level).

This I think is the disconnect. I agree that 1st Dan was/is a "beginner" rank then and now... I just think their definition of beginner was less charitable than the current standard in too many places (hence my agreement to this being a pet peeve of mine as well).

Edit
... Now if someone was to train as they did then for 18 months... I'd likely have no issue with them reaching 1st Dan that soon. They'd probably have earned it

 

[donald1]

Children aren't immature, they are children, with children's brains and behaviour patterns. They aren't immature adults. They act up because they are children, perhaps when teaching children adapt the classes to them rather than have them messing around. There's a reason teachers have to train to teach children, the psychology is different, attention spans are different, they way they learn is different from adults. It's a wonderful thing to inspire children and they will pay you back a hundredfold.

I'd also check if they actually want to be there, or the parents. Not the child's fault if they don't want to be there but they will respond better if you are understanding.

Immature was a poor choice of words.

On average in my limited experience, they weren't too difficult to teach, but some students were trickier.

Based on your post you sound like your really good at teaching kids.

I have no clue what to tell a kid that doesn't want to be there. The frustrating part is when they don't follow instructions, it can sometimes rub off on other students.

How do you deal with students that don't want to be there?

I haven't instructed kids in a while nor do I see myself doing it any time soon but I'm curious though.

 

[andyjeffries]

In the examples you cited, these were mostly experienced military men, training nearly full time under harsh conditions with high expectations.

Are you sure?

When he finally came to Japan, from Okinawa, in 1922, he stayed among his own people at the prefectural students’ dormitory at Suidobata, Tokyo. He lived in a small room beside the entrance and would clean the dormitory during the day when the students were in their classes and work erands as a gardener too. At night, he would teach them karate.

-- Gichin Funakoshi Sensei Informal Biography

So his first students were literal students, training part time... Let's go to Judo:

Mitsuyo Maeda - Wikipedia - Mitsuyo was a student when he started to learn Judo from Kano Sensei
Yokoyama Sakujiro - Wikipedia - Yokoyama was in the police when he first started to learn
Kyuzo Mifune - Wikipedia - Kyuzo was an U14 student
Tomita Tsunejirō - Wikipedia - No mention of him being a military man?

Don't get me wrong, it's more of a romantic thought to think these were all hardcore elite athletes when they started and were training 18 hours a day, so their black belt was much harder - but the reality is that the asian mindset is that 1st Dan is a beginner rank.

 

[MadMartigan]

Are you sure?


-- Gichin Funakoshi Sensei Informal Biography

So his first students were literal students, training part time... Let's go to Judo:

Mitsuyo Maeda - Wikipedia - Mitsuyo was a student when he started to learn Judo from Kano Sensei
Yokoyama Sakujiro - Wikipedia - Yokoyama was in the police when he first started to learn
Kyuzo Mifune - Wikipedia - Kyuzo was an U14 student
Tomita Tsunejirō - Wikipedia - No mention of him being a military man?

Don't get me wrong, it's more of a romantic thought to think these were all hardcore elite athletes when they started and were training 18 hours a day, so their black belt was much harder - but the reality is that the asian mindset is that 1st Dan is a beginner rank.

I'd love to continue this vein of conversation... but feel like we're skewing off topic for this thread.
If you don't mind, I'll start a new thread to follow this rabbit hole

 

[Tez3]

Immature was a poor choice of words.

On average in my limited experience, they weren't too difficult to teach, but some students were trickier.

Based on your post you sound like your really good at teaching kids.

I have no clue what to tell a kid that doesn't want to be there. The frustrating part is when they don't follow instructions, it can sometimes rub off on other students.

How do you deal with students that don't want to be there?

I haven't instructed kids in a while nor do I see myself doing it any time soon but I'm curious though.

I'm always honest with children, I do teach them plus I'm a Girl Guide leader taking girls from 5-14.
I tell the kids who don't want to be there that I understand, but if we make the best of it together it won't be as bad as they think, I make the classes as interesting and fun as I can, trying to make it as personal as I can for each one. The ones who want to grade or get on I give harder things to or ask them to teach a technique I know they are good at to a couple of others, I also teach them how to teach. The ones that don't want to be there I will find something for them which will engage them, there's always something that will do it. Might be bag of pad work, or I'll give them something to be responsible for, perhaps making sure a new child has a buddy or I'll ask them to help me teach.

Ten years or so ago, most of our children had a parent on deployment in Afghanistan. It was hard, we also had adult students there. Two didn't come back. Everyone knew someone who was injured or killed, whenever a communications blackout happened, we all held our breath, then the news would come. Always the worst.
The children were and are brave, but they needed support which was provided by schools, clubs and the army units. In our club we gave them the chance to let off steam in a constructive (to us as martial artists) way, we noticed at the start that if they sparred it got very physical so we got some of our MMA fighters in to spar with the kids who then could go really hard and let their feelings out, the boys especially missed wrestling around with dad. ( It sharpened up the fighters no end!) The fighters taught them techniques from MMA they could use for self defence as well. The trick then and now, is to always be honest with children, if you don't know something say so, they are brilliant BS detectors, don't talk down to them, talk to them as you would an adult but keeping it age appropriate. Children are wonderful conversationalists, they have an interesting take on life. They respond to genuine enthusiasm someone has for a subject, the false cheerleading hype and hi five 'good job' stuff is awful. Kids know if you tell them they are good and they aren't, they don't trust you after that but if you can tell them they are trying hard and help them get it they will, however sometimes the technique doesn't actually work for them and you have to tell them that.

I don't get kids messing around more than once or twice, thanks to my previous military training and the day job I had at the time I was used to making adults do as they were asked/told lol, so I have a look that says behave. ( I am THAT teacher who walks into a classroom and it goes quiet) To be honest though, keep the kids occupied with something they enjoy and they won't mess, allow for a silly five minutes every so often so everyone can have a laugh, a pile on the senior instructors works lol or a silly game. If you like children and enjoy their company (that basically means being a big kid at heart) it will be quite easy.

 

[TenHands]

Oh LORD forgive me for what I am about to do:

-Inflexible people who try advanced kicks in sparring and end up kicking me right in the nuts. Either stick to hand techniques or stretch more.
-Someone thinking their organization is superior to the others. There is a medical term for this and I think we all know what it is.
-Tang Soo Do people who don't understand that their art is based on a Japanese one, not a Chinese one.
-"Self defense" training without the physical conditioning to go along with it. Plenty of people don't realize that self defense techniques aren't a special weapon that any untrained person can use; you actually have to be somewhat capable to use them correctly.
-Anyone who boasts to be able to "kick someone's butt." In my experience, these people either a.) can't or b.) lack the mental or physical ability to even initiate a physical confrontation. Laughing these folks off usually works.
-Any parent who thinks their 7 year old who got a black belt in 2 years and can do acrobatic Taekwondo techniques can "kick someone's butt." Word of advice: they are not and this is a horrible attitude to have, both for you and for them. Like the previous point, simply laughing at this horrendous behavior is the best way to deal with it.
-People who "shhh" with each technique when they do kata. This isn't a library. Please stop.
-WMAA Chung Do Kwan. If you don't know what this is, I urge you not to find out.
-Defending yourself against a violent attacker and being labeled as the bad guy afterward.
-Anything that involves doing Kanku-Dai repeatedly. My poor lungs. x_x

 

[Gerry Seymour]

My biggest peeve is people being promoted that shouldn't be. I'll judge at tournaments and see someone in a Black Belt ring do a form and I'll ask myself, "Why is this person still not a Yellow Belt?"

My second is XMA. I think that speaks for itself.

XMA doesn't bother me - it's just not closely related to what I do. Just like cardio-kickboxing doesn't bother me.

But I'm with you on the questionable promotions. I attended a final testing for a BB once (in the NGAA, the final test is usually a "defense line", where the student faces 120 attacks). The testee fell a few times, bumbled through some responses, and generally looked about 2 ranks below ready for that test. I suspect a good bit of it was nerves, but if the test is meant to be a test, he should have failed.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Immature was a poor choice of words.

I think it's an appropriate term, if we use its actual original meaning (basically, not fully developed) ratther than reading it as a pejorative. That a sapling is an immature tree is a reasonable statement, and a child is an immature human. But Tez does make a good point about how we should approach them. It's the reason I don't much like to teach kids - I'm not good at adapting classes for those below teenage development.