martial arts fitness goal and objectives

[Gerry Seymour]

fitness is an ability to do,,
if you go to a lab they will assess it by measuring your vo2 max, ie your ability to metabolise oxygen, with out which most of your doing will be very in effective ,
at a more general level it must involve the basic elements of human activerty, so that's cardio,strengh, endurance, co ordination balance speed mobility/ flexability. If your not providing them with a method to improve all them then you are,dropping short on providing them with general fitness ,

in a martial context, then if you sent providing them with the above in a ratio that applicable to the,style of fighting, then you are again selling them short

people don't plateau, that's a biological impossibility, they are either very slowly improving or very slowly reducing in fitness' ( as defined above) and if they have," plateau" because the exercise's are no longer,challenging them, then they are reducing in fitness and will do so, till they reach a level were the exercise's again,challenge them

People do plateau. The body only improves to the point necessary to meet a given challenge. If the challenge doesn't increase, neither does their fitness level. Walking 10 minutes a day will produce fitness benefits. Those benefits do not gradually increase without end. The same goes for bicep curls with 10 pound weights, at 10 repetitions.

As for the rest, it sounds a lot like you're trying to criticize a vaguely mentioned regimen. I am not a fitness center. I include an amount of fitness in the training, to help students develop a baseline of fitness. If they have a specific need, that's their responsibility, and that was my point. What I provide (in the area of fitness) is what I consider minimal. If I were to offer fitness classes, I'd take a different approach.

 

[jobo]

People do plateau. The body only improves to the point necessary to meet a given challenge. If the challenge doesn't increase, neither does their fitness level. Walking 10 minutes a day will produce fitness benefits. Those benefits do not gradually increase without end. The same goes for bicep curls with 10 pound weights, at 10 repetitions.

As for the rest, it sounds a lot like you're trying to criticize a vaguely mentioned regimen. I am not a fitness center. I include an amount of fitness in the training, to help students develop a baseline of fitness. If they have a specific need, that's their responsibility, and that was my point. What I provide (in the area of fitness) is what I consider minimal. If I were to offer fitness classes, I'd take a different approach.

why do you always think your being critically assessed.?

no they don't plateau, the body is decaying all the time, if you keep doing the same exercise routeen , passed were it is challenging, then you loose fitness, you don't,stay the same.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

why do you always think your being critically assessed.?

I was passing along how I perceived the tone of the post, in case you weren't aware it came across that way.

no they don't plateau, the body is decaying all the time, if you keep doing the same exercise routeen , passed were it is challenging, then you loose fitness, you don't,stay the same.

My experience and what I've learned in research and reading isn't in line with the latter. Mind you, that will depend a lot on the age of the person you're talking about. Someone in reasonable health in their 20's can maintain their fitness level by simply maintaining the same level of activity. The same won't be true for someone in their 50's. If you have some reading for me that indicates otherwise, I'd love to dig into it.

 

[jobo]

I was passing along how I perceived the tone of the post, in case you weren't aware it came across that way.


My experience and what I've learned in research and reading isn't in line with the latter. Mind you, that will depend a lot on the age of the person you're talking about. Someone in reasonable health in their 20's can maintain their fitness level by simply maintaining the same level of activity. The same won't be true for someone in their 50's. If you have some reading for me that indicates otherwise, I'd love to dig into it.

just google anabolic and catatonic state. One is a state of growth / improvement and the other a state of decay / reduction in performance.
your body is either in one or the other, there is no middle ground plateau, were you stay the same

 

[Gerry Seymour]

just google anabolic and catatonic state. One is a state of growth / improvement and the other a state of decay / reduction in performance.
your body is either in one or the other, there is no middle ground plateau, were you stay the same

Okay, that's true enough. But the principle is how much time you spend in the growth/improvement state. If exercise is challenging enough, your body spends more time/resources growing. If you simply keep that same level of exercise, the time/resources allocated to growing decrease to a point it eventually holds a level of stasis over time - you balance the decay with the growth. My point about older folks is that the decay is faster as we age, so it takes more time in the growth state to just maintain what you have.

So yes, the body is always either getting more fit or less fit, moment to moment. But over the course of a month, stasis (a plateau) is entirely possible.

 

[JR 137]

Okay, that's true enough. But the principle is how much time you spend in the growth/improvement state. If exercise is challenging enough, your body spends more time/resources growing. If you simply keep that same level of exercise, the time/resources allocated to growing decrease to a point it eventually holds a level of stasis over time - you balance the decay with the growth. My point about older folks is that the decay is faster as we age, so it takes more time in the growth state to just maintain what you have.

So yes, the body is always either getting more fit or less fit, moment to moment. But over the course of a month, stasis (a plateau) is entirely possible.

You're really not going to convince him of anything. He reads a lot of internet stuff, yet is alarmingly misinformed.

 

[donald1]

[EDIT]

 

[jobo]

Okay, that's true enough. But the principle is how much time you spend in the growth/improvement state. If exercise is challenging enough, your body spends more time/resources growing. If you simply keep that same level of exercise, the time/resources allocated to growing decrease to a point it eventually holds a level of stasis over time - you balance the decay with the growth. My point about older folks is that the decay is faster as we age, so it takes more time in the growth state to just maintain what you have.

So yes, the body is always either getting more fit or less fit, moment to moment. But over the course of a month, stasis (a plateau) is entirely possible.

well possible, but the likelyhood of it balancing out over a month is some what unlikely.
a close system heads towards entropy unless you intervene. If you do the same exercises week after week to the same intensity duration, then once your body has adapted to the demands of the exercise's, then your body is in a catatonic state and is decaying, you are very slowly losing fitness

 

[jobo]

You're really not going to convince him of anything. He reads a lot of internet stuff, yet is alarmingly misinformed.

yes we had a long talk about force, and when he eventually admitted he was wrong, he put me on ignore for a month so he couldn't be wrong again

 

[jobo]

anyway back to my musing
we have discussed building,strengh, alot of people are misinformed as to the mechanism your body uses to do this. Thinking its about breaking down muscle tissue and growing bigger stronger muscles, and though this is part of the process, its not the full picture.

Strength is first and for most a skill. Long before you need bigger muscles you can train your nervous system to recruit the correct muscle fibers in,sufficient numbers and fire them in the correct order to greatly improve your strengh, most people who don't train strengh are running at about 35/40%efficiency.

Or they can only use 40% of the strength there existing muscle mass can produce. There is also a reflex cut off, that limits your body from producing more strengh than it commonly does, it protect its self from injury, so if you commonly only use 20% of your available strengh, your body limits you to very much that number.

so to simplify it some what. You can through practise double your effective strengh with out gaining very much in the way of muscle mass.
there are any number of people who we're born with big muscles who are as weak as kittens and any number of,skinny guys that can just knock them over because they have developed their nervous system.

as an aside, if I'm weighing someone up to how strong they might be, I look not at the bicep or the pecs,but at the triceps'. No one was born with big triceps', if its prominent, they there is a good chance they are strong

 

[Touch Of Death]

I am lazy, by nature, and I won't do an exercise unless it helps me as a martial artist. But when I see a big guy, or little guy, I watch how they move, and I can tell right away who isn't training for the fight.

 

[jobo]

I am lazy, by nature, and I won't do an exercise unless it helps me as a martial artist. But when I see a big guy, or little guy, I watch how they move, and I can tell right away who isn't training for the fight.

but efficient activation of fast twitch fibre does help your martial,arts, it not only makes you stronger, but faster and therefore more powerful in punch and kick as well.

but yes, at a,subliminal level you can tell a lot about a person by the way they move

 

[JR 137]

yes we had a long talk about force, and when he eventually admitted he was wrong, he put me on ignore for a month so he couldn't be wrong again

Who put you on ignore?

 

[jobo]

Who put you on ignore?

gpysymour

 

[Gerry Seymour]

well possible, but the likelyhood of it balancing out over a month is some what unlikely.
a close system heads towards entropy unless you intervene. If you do the same exercises week after week to the same intensity duration, then once your body has adapted to the demands of the exercise's, then your body is in a catatonic state and is decaying, you are very slowly losing fitness

Not accurate, actually. Your body doesn't give up entirely on exercise because it doesn't change. There's a reason farmers, movers, and others who work with their bodies (doing nearly exactly the same work over and over) develop strength that remains, without them having to constantly increase the challenge. The body maintains the level necessary to meet those repetitive needs.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

yes we had a long talk about force, and when he eventually admitted he was wrong, he put me on ignore for a month so he couldn't be wrong again

Um, no. Because you weren't willing to be reasonable. I wasn't wrong - you were insisting that highly technical language was the only way to communicate, though it is commonly understood that avoiding technical language is more effective outside the confines of those operating in the related technical profession.

I have no time nor patience for those who insist their way is the only right way.

 

[jobo]

Not accurate, actually. Your body doesn't give up entirely on exercise because it doesn't change. There's a reason farmers, movers, and others who work with their bodies (doing nearly exactly the same work over and over) develop strength that remains, without them having to constantly increase the challenge. The body maintains the level necessary to meet those repetitive needs.

they get old and weak as well you know,

we did this a few posts ago, the body decays u till the exercise become challenging again and then fitness increases again.

many work men use maximal strengh on a daily basis, the exercise's are always challenging them to improve. If they have two weeks in the sun, they will have lost A ton of fitness when they return

 

[jobo]

Um, no. Because you weren't willing to be reasonable. I wasn't wrong - you were insisting that highly technical language was the only way to communicate, though it is commonly understood that avoiding technical language is more effective outside the confines of those operating in the related technical profession.

I have no time nor patience for those who insist their way is the only right way.

so your argument is that using the correct terminology in a discuss on physics is incorrect and you should just be able to randomly make up any defintion you like

 

[Gerry Seymour]

they get old and weak as well you know,

we did this a few posts ago, the body decays u till the exercise become challenging again and then fitness increases again.

many work men use maximal strengh on a daily basis, the exercise's are always challenging them to improve. If they have two weeks in the sun, they will have lost A ton of fitness when they return

When they get old, that's a change in the body's functioning. That's not nearly the same as stasis over a month's time.

And no, they don't do their maximum every day. They do their maximum early on, and then they do the same work over and over, but have developed their body to a point where it's no longer their maximum.

Your statement about loss when they take vacation is actually entirely in line with my earlier statements.

You're trying really hard to say something, and I'm not even sure what it is any more, since you keep shifting your point. You don't seem to actually grasp the concepts you speak of, beyond the ability to write a few sentences about them. You confuse short-term and long-term effects, among other things.

 

[jobo]

they get old and weak as well you know,

we did this a few posts ago, the body decays u till the exercise become challenging again and then fitness increases again.

many work men use maximal strengh on a daily basis, the exercise's are always challenging them to improve. If they have two weeks in the sun, they will have lost A ton of fitness when they return

there is all so a tendency for them to develop unevenly, they do to much pulling and not enough pushing, which distorts their bodies and leads to muscle wastage in the under used muscles, so despite have reason my stage muscles in some area s that have a large proportion of muscles in constant,decay, and the joints tend to wear out from over use. That's not really fitness