Martial Arts fanaticals

[Steve]

Do you actually believe the ******** that you write? Nobody else does.

Dude. You're being very rude.

 

[Buka]

Gentlemen, let's relax. If this thread gets locked, we'll never learn about Martial Arts fanaticals....which I'm not really sure is a word anyway.

But, chill, please,

 

[Steve]

You are making assumptions about the reason the conversation began and missing the confrontational tone of the "other guy", I am simply providing a different view since there is more than just one view as it applies to this discussion. If one starts off asking a question in a confrontational manner they have set a confrontational tone for the discussion (now argument) since it was, in this case started with "fake". does it make since to go on page after page of arguing with one who has already made their decision before the discussion ever began. Or is it better to simply let it go and move on?

And if the "other guy" has a history of being confrontational and arguing, does it make since to indulge his need to argue or is it better to just let it go?

No assumptions on my side, and I'm not trying to say you're wrong. As I say above, I'm sure that your vignette occurs. And I pointed out the part that is a continual head scratcher for me.

Said simply, I can completely understand why you might not want to explain or demonstrate something to a person who is confrontational. But is it possible to be skeptical and not confrontational? I think so. What about you? Can someone question your assertions without being confrontational? while I believe that this is possible, my impression from you is that you don't agree.

 

[Flying Crane]

If you want to learn more about how people learn, I'm your guy, FC, and I'm happy to share what I know. Really, we only scratch the surface on this forum when it comes to this.

Something to consider. When other people are openly disrespectful toward you in areas where you have some expertise, you get very upset. I've seen it, and I totally get it. Do you understand that you're doing that very same thing to me? It's pretty rude. I have never attacked your martial arts style, or disparaged your training methods. I have never claimed to know everything, and as I pointed out to Xue above, I'm not interested at all in dictating what you do or how you do it. I haven't said you're a fake or a fraud or anything like that, and I've never suggested that MMA or BJJ is better than any other style.

I've tried to answer your posts as best I can and address what I interpret are the root questions. If you don't like my answers, I don't know what to tell you.

Do you understand that you do the same thing habitually, including right now?

 

[Steve]

Do you understand that you do the same thing habitually, including right now?

How so? Because no, frankly. I don't see it. Certainly don't intend to do so. Point me to where I disparage your training methods, attack your martial arts or am disrespectful toward you, call you a fraud or suggest that MMA or BJJ is better than any other style. I'll certainly apologize if you do so.

Edit: Want to add that from my perspective, I have tried to explain some very fundamental information about how people learn things, which is true for everything, not just martial arts. It's how the UPS guy learns to do his job, how you learned to do yours, how kids learn to play baseball or to play the clarinet. The things I've shared are included in every sound, effective training program, in some way or another.

 

[Xue Sheng]

No assumptions on my side, and I'm not trying to say you're wrong. As I say above, I'm sure that your vignette occurs. And I pointed out the part that is a continual head scratcher for me.

Said simply, I can completely understand why you might not want to explain or demonstrate something to a person who is confrontational. But is it possible to be skeptical and not confrontational? I think so. What about you? Can someone question your assertions without being confrontational? while I believe that this is possible, my impression from you is that you don't agree.

Well of course they can question without being confrontational, how you got the impression otherwise from my response is a head scratcher to me. As I said, in the example I provided, based on the example you previously provided, that the question came with the word "fake" thereby setting a confrontational tone. Once the person being questioned decided to agree and thereby avoid the confrontation, the questioner stepped it up a notch. Therefore the questioned then simpy let the whole thing go. They did not see the reason to continue this conversation. And as I stated, if that person has a history of confrontation and arguing on the page, why indulge them. If they have already made their decision and if they have a history of being argumentative then I don't understand your confusion as to why one would not waste time explaining. or demonstrating.

Now if they question is asked and proof is not provided or if the person being asked does not wish to provide proof or if they simply do not want to be videoed and have that posted on YouTube, since that seems to be the proof of choice, by some on this page these days, what then, the person asking will not except anything less so why continue. The one asking will only be emboldened to continue their demands for proof if the discussion/argument continues, then why waste time.

Or in the case I mentioned earlier, based on culture, what if they see no need to prove anything to the person asking, they simply made the statement and they are done, or if they do not wish to give a free lesson or an open lesson across the web. Then why not let it go and not continue the arguing. There are multiple reasons people can decide not to answer a question and there comes a time to let it go and there are even times when empathy may be a better approach than arguing and a respectful or at least non-confrontational approach might go a lot further in those situations

Oh and there is always MT rules that seem to be forgotten

1.10 Forum and Art Bashing
1.10.2 No Art bashing.
1.10.3 No Individual Bashing / Fraud Busting.

4.3 Abuse / Flaming / Derogatory Comments
4.5 Trolling / Inciting Conflict

 

[Headhunter]

Well this threads gone to ****...this is happening more and more these days

 

[Steve]

Well of course they can question without being confrontational, how you got the impression otherwise from my response is a head scratcher to me. As I said, in the example I provided, based on the example you previously provided, that the question came with the word "fake" thereby setting a confrontational tone. Once the person being questioned decided to agree and thereby avoid the confrontation, the questioner stepped it up a notch. Therefore the questioned then simpy let the whole thing go. They did not see the reason to continue this conversation. And as I stated, if that person has a history of confrontation and arguing on the page, why indulge them. If they have already made their decision and if they have a history of being argumentative then I don't understand your confusion as to why one would not waste time explaining. or demonstrating.

Now if they question is asked and proof is not provided or if the person being asked does not wish to provide proof or if they simply do not want to be videoed and have that posted on YouTube, since that seems to be the proof of choice, by some on this page these days, what then, the person asking will not except anything less so why continue. The one asking will only be emboldened to continue their demands for proof if the discussion/argument continues, then why waste time.

Or in the case I mentioned earlier, based on culture, what if they see no need to prove anything to the person asking, they simply made the statement and they are done, or if they do not wish to give a free lesson or an open lesson across the web. Then why not let it go and not continue the arguing. There are multiple reasons people can decide not to answer a question and there comes a time to let it go and there are even times when empathy may be a better approach than arguing and a respectful or at least non-confrontational approach might go a lot further in those situations

Oh and there is always MT rules that seem to be forgotten

1.10 Forum and Art Bashing
1.10.2 No Art bashing.
1.10.3 No Individual Bashing / Fraud Busting.

4.3 Abuse / Flaming / Derogatory Comments
4.5 Trolling / Inciting Conflict

I think you're speaking with one or more very specific people in mind. I never used the term "fake" in any of my posts. Did I? Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

You may already know this, but just to say out loud, I'm not trying to defend or justify anyone in particular. If you have a specific beef with a poster, take it up with that person.

To sum up, in general, if you make an assertion, my opinion is that it's reasonable to ask for some evidence for your assertion. If you say that a diet of maple syrup and beer is good for you, I'm going to be very interested in seeing some support. I didn't ask you to make that assertion. But you made it, and now that it's out there, it's reasonable to look to you for some validation.

On an individual level, if you don't like someone, don't answer them. And specific to the forum, if you really don't like someone, ignore them. I'm not suggesting otherwise.

Another thing that may be understood, but I'll just say out loud. It seems like you and FC are reading a lot of subtext into my posts that I'm unaware of. For what it's worth, I'm not trying to speak in code here.

 

[Steve]

Well this threads gone to ****...this is happening more and more these days

No more than usual. Best way to get it back on track is post on topic and steer it back.

 

[drop bear]

Anyone who says this style is best and this style doesn't work are just idiots plain and simple every style works. It all depends on the person and how they train it.

Why does every style work?

 

[Flying Crane]

How so? Because no, frankly. I don't see it. Certainly don't intend to do so. Point me to where I disparage your training methods, attack your martial arts or am disrespectful toward you, call you a fraud or suggest that MMA or BJJ is better than any other style. I'll certainly apologize if you do so.

Edit: Want to add that from my perspective, I have tried to explain some very fundamental information about how people learn things, which is true for everything, not just martial arts. It's how the UPS guy learns to do his job, how you learned to do yours, how kids learn to play baseball or to play the clarinet. The things I've shared are included in every sound, effective training program, in some way or another.

You profoundly lack self-awareness. I cannot help you.

 

[Flying Crane]

Well this threads gone to ****...this is happening more and more these days

Funny how often that happens when Steve is involved.

 

[drop bear]

Martial artists are cross sectional sample of the general population then maybe it is unsurprising if there exist among martial artists all the same closed-mindedness that exist in the most ignorant and dogmatic followers of religions..

Like rhetorically who ever respond well to some one self-righteously inform them -replete with "evidence"- that they are following the "wrong" path? Nobody respond well to that.. is the worst kind of pontification..

Is exactly like you say.. I would say to the martial art missionary who approach me in public place.. I say.. like before you condescend to persuade me to the more "correct" way, understand this is MY way and it is already correct for me, by my own personal singular standard. It may appear I have a job to do that require a hammer. However, that may be simply a misperception based on limited exposure to the world, of what I am even attempting to do.. I am not offended by that misperception if you are not offended by my refusal to take up your offer of a hammer to do the job I am doing

and even you are rambling.. like the song say ramble on

Until you start taking peoples money.

 

[Steve]

You profoundly lack self-awareness. I cannot help you.

Apology accepted.

 

[Flying Crane]

I think you're speaking with one or more very specific people in mind. I never used the term "fake" in any of my posts. Did I? Maybe so, but I'm pretty sure I didn't.

You may already know this, but just to say out loud, I'm not trying to defend or justify anyone in particular. If you have a specific beef with a poster, take it up with that person.

To sum up, in general, if you make an assertion, my opinion is that it's reasonable to ask for some evidence for your assertion. If you say that a diet of maple syrup and beer is good for you, I'm going to be very interested in seeing some support. I didn't ask you to make that assertion. But you made it, and now that it's out there, it's reasonable to look to you for some validation.

On an individual level, if you don't like someone, don't answer them. And specific to the forum, if you really don't like someone, ignore them. I'm not suggesting otherwise.

Another thing that may be understood, but I'll just say out loud. It seems like you and FC are reading a lot of subtext into my posts that I'm unaware of. For what it's worth, I'm not trying to speak in code here.

Again, you profoundly lack self-awareness.

 

[drop bear]

Well of course they can question without being confrontational, how you got the impression otherwise from my response is a head scratcher to me. As I said, in the example I provided, based on the example you previously provided, that the question came with the word "fake" thereby setting a confrontational tone. Once the person being questioned decided to agree and thereby avoid the confrontation, the questioner stepped it up a notch. Therefore the questioned then simpy let the whole thing go. They did not see the reason to continue this conversation. And as I stated, if that person has a history of confrontation and arguing on the page, why indulge them. If they have already made their decision and if they have a history of being argumentative then I don't understand your confusion as to why one would not waste time explaining. or demonstrating.

Now if they question is asked and proof is not provided or if the person being asked does not wish to provide proof or if they simply do not want to be videoed and have that posted on YouTube, since that seems to be the proof of choice, by some on this page these days, what then, the person asking will not except anything less so why continue. The one asking will only be emboldened to continue their demands for proof if the discussion/argument continues, then why waste time.

Or in the case I mentioned earlier, based on culture, what if they see no need to prove anything to the person asking, they simply made the statement and they are done, or if they do not wish to give a free lesson or an open lesson across the web. Then why not let it go and not continue the arguing. There are multiple reasons people can decide not to answer a question and there comes a time to let it go and there are even times when empathy may be a better approach than arguing and a respectful or at least non-confrontational approach might go a lot further in those situations

Oh and there is always MT rules that seem to be forgotten

1.10 Forum and Art Bashing
1.10.2 No Art bashing.
1.10.3 No Individual Bashing / Fraud Busting.

4.3 Abuse / Flaming / Derogatory Comments
4.5 Trolling / Inciting Conflict

You cant ask politely if they are a fanatic though. Because even expressing the idea that their belief is not real is seen as offensive

 

[Steve]

Again, you profoundly lack self-awareness.

I welcome you to point out where I was rude or disrespectful to you, your style, your school or your ancestors. Can you just give me a link to the post where I was mean to you, suggested BJJ is the bee's knees or anything else? No? I didn't think so. You'll just stick with childish insults.

 

[Flying Crane]

I welcome you to point out where I was rude or disrespectful to you, your style, your school or your ancestors. Can you just give me a link to the post where I was mean to you, suggested BJJ is the bee's knees or anything else? No? I didn't think so. You'll just stick with childish insults.

Ok, no joke here, a moment of absolute seriousness: I honestly believe that you are a sociopath. As such, I cannot have a meaningful discussion with you, so we are done. Good luck with your life.

 

[drop bear]

I welcome you to point out where I was rude or disrespectful to you, your style, your school or your ancestors. Can you just give me a link to the post where I was mean to you, suggested BJJ is the bee's knees or anything else? No? I didn't think so. You'll just stick with childish insults.

Which is a good example of a fanatic. And how they handle a challenge to their belief system.

 

[Steve]

Ok, no joke here, a moment of absolute seriousness: I honestly believe that you are a sociopath. As such, I cannot have a meaningful discussion with you, so we are done. Good luck with your life.

Being serious here. I can't honestly believe you would say something like that. I've done my best to answer your posts in good faith, even though I know that you are just being really mean. But for you to say something like that to me is genuinely hurtful. I don't know what's in you that would make you think it's okay to say things like this.