Martial Art, does it

[terryl965]

I was wondering today after reading another article on MA teacher who take advantage of there students.

Here is the scenirio: The Instructor collects all fee's for the remainder of the year in advance. He tells his patrons the reason behind it is to generate enough for him to move the school, beside getting monthly dues alot of parent give more to help the school move.

After a week they show up but the building is empty and are told by the management company that there Instructor was evicted for non payment of rent, here is the kicker he left with over $71,000 in his pocket from his students. They have been unable to locate this Instructor and those parents are outrage at what happened.

My question is why if the Martial Arts are built around integrity and respect do we have so many instructor that have absolutey none. Is this getting more common eeryday and yes I know it is not just in MA that this happens but we are suppose to be a role model for everyone.

Just thought I share, some people

 

[Bigshadow]

That is so messed up!

 

[matt.m]

You know Terry, I agree with your line of reasoning. You as an instructor are a role model of sorts to people who practice or have a loved one practicing under your tuetilage.

It just amazes me that there are people out there that would do that. It really boggles the mind.

 

[Kacey]

Some poeple had good instructors, who taught them with integrity and passed the concept of integrity on; some people had good instructors who taught them with integrity and assumed setting an example was enough (and sometimes it is), some people had poor instructors who had (or at least demonstrated) little or no integrity, and some people don't learn no matter how good the instructor. Like anything else, there are *******s out there who are willing to use whatever skills they have (or don't have) to take advantage of others - the trick is to catch them before it reaches the disgusting level you described, and to find ways to make it unappealing for people to do such things - which is a societal problem that, sadly, is very widely spread.

 

[Brian R. VanCise]

Some poeple had good instructors, who taught them with integrity and passed the concept of integrity on; some people had good instructors who taught them with integrity and assumed setting an example was enough (and sometimes it is), some people had poor instructors who had (or at least demonstrated) little or no integrity, and some people don't learn no matter how good the instructor. Like anything else, there are *******s out there who are willing to use whatever skills they have (or don't have) to take advantage of others - the trick is to catch them before it reaches the disgusting level you described, and to find ways to make it unappealing for people to do such things - which is a societal problem that, sadly, is very widely spread.

Nice post and unfrotunately true. It is a societal issue and their are simply people with no honor in every profession.

 

[Adept]

My question is why if the Martial Arts are built around integrity and respect do we have so many instructor that have absolutey none.

The martial arts are no more built around integrity and respect than bricklaying, architechture or interior design is. You will find honest and dishonest people in all walks of life.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Sadly this type of thing happens way to often not the pack up and vanish but the bilking the public. And I have no idea how anyone can do that but it still happens and it certainly makes the rest of the MA schools (not to mention all martial artists) in that area look bad to the general public even though they had absolutely nothing to do with it.

And it has been going on for years

 

[juszczec]

My question is why if the Martial Arts are built around integrity and respect do we have so many instructor that have absolutey none.

Simple. MA isn't built around integrity and respect. It can be, but there are no guarantees.

You can use it as a vehicle for self improvement just as you can use a car to open a walnut.

We might as well face it. Some people are sleazy. They'll be sleazy until they decide to stop. If they decide to stop. Participation in any given activity may help, but its gotta start with the person wanting to change.

Is this getting more common eeryday and yes I know it is not just in MA that this happens but we are suppose to be a role model for everyone.

Involvement in MA makes me a role model? It could. But it could just indicate I'm someone who likes to fight.

FWIW, role models are going to be role models regardless if they do MA or anything else. There is something inherent in the person that the rest of society says is "good"

Even that's very situational.

Mark

 

[terryl965]

I have to dis-agree with some of you the Art aspect of Martial Art dictates you being Humble and have respect and Integrity towards life and all living things.

And yes I know this is old fashion, but I was trained to be the best person I can be all the time just not when it suites me.

And for the record I believe whole heartily that one can process these quality's and still be a fighter.

It is people like the one I mention that gives us all a bad taste in our mouth and the mouth of other people, like it or not when people in trust there training in you they expect certain level of professioanlism.

And as so many have said it is not just MA, it is everything in life

 

[bushidomartialarts]

more than one person hit it on the head in this thread: MA is not inherently going to teach honesty and integrity.

question: what are we, personally, doing about it?

 

[FuriousGeorge]

The thing is. The ideas of integrity and honor in the martial arts are ideals held by many of us, but that doesn't mean that being a martial artist makes one honorable or possess integrity. Why did all the great masters keep some techniques secret? because they knew that the martial arts can be a vehicle for bad things in the wrong hands. This guy obviously had no integrity and no honor, as everybody else has pionted out, the fact that he was a martial artist is irrelivent, he could have just as easily been a yoga teacher.

 

[juszczec]

MA is not inherently going to teach honesty and integrity.

question: what are we, personally, doing about it?

Hopefully, serving as good examples.

Mark

 

[Robert Lee]

It is as sad truth that this type of people are now instructing M/a. there are many that will cheat to get ahead in this world. but you would hope a M/A instructor would refrain from this type of basicly stealing. But most all will not fall in this area. Just 1 bad apple and peoples trust is broken though

 

[Rich Parsons]

I was wondering today after reading another article on MA teacher who take advantage of there students.

Here is the scenirio: The Instructor collects all fee's for the remainder of the year in advance. He tells his patrons the reason behind it is to generate enough for him to move the school, beside getting monthly dues alot of parent give more to help the school move.

After a week they show up but the building is empty and are told by the management company that there Instructor was evicted for non payment of rent, here is the kicker he left with over $71,000 in his pocket from his students. They have been unable to locate this Instructor and those parents are outrage at what happened.

My question is why if the Martial Arts are built around integrity and respect do we have so many instructor that have absolutey none. Is this getting more common eeryday and yes I know it is not just in MA that this happens but we are suppose to be a role model for everyone.

Just thought I share, some people

Some who join Martial Arts think that they will magically be enlightened.

Others may join because they were afraid or had been beaten up, and now could see this as a way to get even. (* Note: Not all who join MA for this reason are like this.*)

While Others join for their egos to tbe the best or to fight others or to ... , and these are the types that are most likely (* Not always *) in my opinion that find it easy to take advantage of others, as people play to their egos as they get better and then it is their turn for people to bow to them and pay then respect/money.

The situation is sad and not good, but as others in this thread have said, you can find this in all walks of life.

 

[charyuop]

I have to say that I am lucky. I study Tai Chi in a group that meets in a church and won't charge anything (even tho as a negative part there is no martial art involved). I started recently studying Aikido too and even in this case Sensei doesn't charge monthly fees, but of course he has no dojo to mantain since we practice in his home. The only rule is if there is need of something for the class we all buy it together.
Sensei is a Godan and the Tai Chi Sifu has been doing Tai Chi since she was 5 and taught it for many years. Both would be more than qualified to open a dojo to teach regular classes. Why they don't? I guess some Masters are more interested in the traditional aspect of the art and in continuing it instead of making money out of it.

But unfortunately as time goes by and MA becomes more and more popular through TV shows it attracts also those people whose interest is mainly money.

 

[terryl965]

more than one person hit it on the head in this thread: MA is not inherently going to teach honesty and integrity.

question: what are we, personally, doing about it?

I for one do my best evryday to teach the value's that have been tought to me, by so many great people.

 

[Adept]

I have to dis-agree with some of you the Art aspect of Martial Art dictates you being Humble and have respect and Integrity towards life and all living things.

I strongly disagree. The art aspect is in making the destruction or potential destruction of the human body look beautiful. The 'art' in martial art refers, to my mind, to the grace, poise, efficiency of movement and co-ordination, much like one sees in gymnastics or dancing.

Respect and integrity are not necessary to be a good martial artist, nor are they necessary components of a martial arts curriculum. In fact, many of the instructors from various styles I have seen are supremely unqualified to tell other people how to be honest and moral.

And yes I know this is old fashion, but I was trained to be the best person I can be all the time just not when it suites me.

So was I, but it was my parents who taught me that, not my martial arts instructors.

 

[still learning]

Hello, It take years and years of practice to be honest,truthful,loyal, and lots of training and the right role models! To keep this training up is hard work!

It is so easy to cross the line and be on the wrong side of the road! Anyone can lie, cheat, steal, and be untrustworthy. That is why so many people take the so call "easy" road. BUT ON THE WRONG SIDE OF THE STREET!

It is sad, that this Instructor took advantage of the Parents and students. The world is not perfect. Even Bill Clinton LIED in office.

For our selves, LETS ALWAYS STAY ON THE RIGHT SIDE OF THE ROAD...less chances of anything going wrong.


BE the right role models, all the time! ........Aloha

 

[jks9199]

I have to say that I am lucky. I study Tai Chi in a group that meets in a church and won't charge anything (even tho as a negative part there is no martial art involved). I started recently studying Aikido too and even in this case Sensei doesn't charge monthly fees, but of course he has no dojo to mantain since we practice in his home. The only rule is if there is need of something for the class we all buy it together.
Sensei is a Godan and the Tai Chi Sifu has been doing Tai Chi since she was 5 and taught it for many years. Both would be more than qualified to open a dojo to teach regular classes. Why they don't? I guess some Masters are more interested in the traditional aspect of the art and in continuing it instead of making money out of it.

But unfortunately as time goes by and MA becomes more and more popular through TV shows it attracts also those people whose interest is mainly money.

The martial art I train in and teach is not (currently) taught commercially. Few, if any, instructors do more than break even with the dues they charge students. That lets us stay with teaching what we were taught instead of having to worry about keeping the doors open. But that doesn't make commercial martial arts inherently bad, either; please don't take my comment that way!

What the incident the original poster cites shows is that, like everything else, the martial art industry is made up of people. There's nothing about being a martial artist that inherently makes you a person of more than normal integrity or character. Even law enforcement and religious clergy occasionally have someone slip in that shouldn't be trusted, even though both professions are supposed to be limited to people of good character. Financial incentives only encourage the less honest people to act less honestly.

I think that what should be taken from this is a simple idea. Accountability. Especially for club or non-commercial schools, the instructors should always be willing and able to explain where they money is going. For a commercial school, if the instructor/owner/operator is asking for a change in payment policy or structure (like getting a lump sum early), he should be able to explain why, and document his explanation. I don't think it's necessarily a bad thing if the schools were to put out some sort of annual statement showing the operating costs. I even think it's reasonable to know how much money the operator is making off of the school; if he's charging enough that he's making $100,000 a year, in part because he's got black belts teaching classes AND paying dues for the privilege (which happens in some places!) -- isn't that something that might be worth asking some questions about? (I'm not begrudging him the money... but maybe he ought to be paying those teachers instead of charging them?)

And I hope the victims in this incident are taking appropriate legal action!