Martial are "More" than mere sport?

[shihansmurf]

This was inspired by another thread.

In all the years I have been training in the martial arts I have encountered this persistent idea that the martial arts are somehow more than a physical activity. Training in the "Ancient" warrior arts is inatley different than engaging in other physical hobbies, different from, and, the implication goes, superior to other sports.

Martial arts training is credited with improving self-discipline, self-control, fostering a spirit of humility, good manners, social justice, and respect.

What is it about the martial arts that fosters these good traits? How, exactly, does learning how to beat up another person make the student of the martial arts a "better" person?

The real question is: Why do the martial arts succeed at teaching these values more than other sports?

If the martial arts are not just about"mere" physical activity, then what else are they about?

I have rather strong views on this subject whic, for the time being, I'll keep to myself. I am interested in what others here think on this subject.

Thanks in advance for all the great replies.
Mark

 

[Flying Crane]

well, I'm not convinced that they DO foster all these other issues, altho I believe that they CAN be a vehicle for such. A lot would depend on the individual tendencies of the student in the first place, and perhaps the attitudes of the teacher and classmates as well.

Personally, I never liked to group the MAs with sports. Sure, they have a sporting side to them, some choose to partake in that and others do not. For me, even when I did partake in the sporting side, I've never considered my arts to be sports.

 

[bluemtn]

The way I'm thinking is, in the dojo/ dojang you have rules that the instructor has set according to either himself or the art. For example, no food, no drinks, only talk at certain times, etc. While there are coaches out there that have certain rules as well, it's generally not as strict, especially if it's an outdoor sport. In training, you have to exercise at least a certain amount of self- control, so that there are very few injuries occuring either to you or to your partner. You're taught to respect your instructor and anyone higher ranking than you, by saying yes sir/ mam, and bowing. Not only that, it seems like a good instructor pushes you to go further than what you originally thought you could, which builds confidence and can build self discipline.

Martial arts focuses on the whole person, not just various muscle groups. It's a mental thing, and it is often viewed as spiritual, even if you aren't religious.

I'll write more if I think of anything else, but that's what I get at the moment...

 

[Archangel M]

Its about WHO is teaching rather than WHAT is being taught. IMO.

 

[bowser666]

I think all have their qualities and shortcomings. It all depends on the person involved , because each person is shaped differently and takes something different away, potentially, from each situation.

 

[Archangel M]

Martial arts focuses on the whole person, not just various muscle groups. It's a mental thing, and it is often viewed as spiritual, even if you aren't religious.

I agree with all your points. On this one though I would say that plenty of other "sports" have a mental/spiritual aspect to them.

I honestly believe that in our society that the less risk a martial art involves the more spiritual stuff gets added. For example MMA vs. some "internal art". Each "martial arts" but with diffrerent emphasis on physical vs. mental.

 

[rmclain]

This was inspired by another thread.

Martial arts training is credited with improving self-discipline, self-control, fostering a spirit of humility, good manners, social justice, and respect.

What is it about the martial arts that fosters these good traits?
I have rather strong views on this subject whic, for the time being, I'll keep to myself. I am interested in what others here think on this subject.

Mark

It is not really martial art that is responsible for this. The training environment is what fosters the qualities you asked about above. A well-structured environment with rules of etiquette and behavior enforced in the training environment, and practiced outside of the school by students and the instructors will foster it. But, this is really up to the individual instructor(s) in charge of the school.

Many schools practice the same movements, but have different learning environments.

Any sport (other than martial art) could result in the same traits you mentioned. Just depends on the coach/trainer.

R. McLain

 

[Nolerama]

I don't think martial arts is specifically what does it for me, versus sports.

First off, to me, there's a difference between a martial artist and a fighter. A huge one.

However, training in fighting performance is no different than catching "the buzz" when I played a good game of racquetball, or shot a last-second 3-pointer in basketball. Sparring gives me the same "high" as catching air from a half-pipe, or dropping in on a wave when I tried body boarding.

I'm going on a skydiving trip next month. I'll probably get a good rush out of that, too; the same I get out of training with my gym.

That "buzz" can be considered the point where one's body meets spirituality, I see it as a rush of chemicals in my brain that occur when I do something fun, exciting, and informative of my abilities.

I get the same kick out of cooking a great meal.

As far as martial arts superior to sports in teaching life's lessons, I will have to disagree. I'll agree with the person who said it matters on who you train with. People that push you to your limits and remain honest on your abilities are found in all aspects of life.

They're called mentors, leaders, and honest friends.

And they exist everywhere.

Personally, I think that schools that claim to "improve" everything from your confidence to your sex life before your performance as either a martial artist or a fighter should close because that's just false advertisement and cultism.

 

[Andrew Green]

Martial arts training is credited with improving self-discipline, self-control, fostering a spirit of humility, good manners, social justice, and respect.

When the concept of organized sports started to take off in the west after the industrial revolution these are the same sorts of words used to promote it.

Martial arts is just another sport. Some people play it with rules, others claim to have no rules... but there are always rules in some form or another. Sometimes it is done competitively, other times not. Of course that's just like other sports as well.

A lot of it is just marketing, putting our stuff up as better then the competition. SOme of it is ego stroking, believing we are better then the competition. And some of it is laziness, believing it doesn't really require hard physical training or being in athletic shape

 

[ChadB]

First post, good topic. I have often wondered this paradox as well, that by learning to beat people up we become better people? A little odd at first glance.

There's a couple of angles to look at here. I think an obvious, albeit, important one is that we may get a lot of the "proving ground" mentality out of our system through our training. I can't tell you the trouble a lot of my untrained buddies get into, just by going out to the bars. They're constantly in the "I have something the prove" mode.

Meanwhile, I am more likely to succeed in any of these altercations never even get into them in the first place. I've done that fight before in my training. Yes, the real thing is different and I've done that too but I don't have that desire to constantly show the world how tough I am.

Another thought is absolutely the training circle you are a part of. I used to be heavily involved in BJJ. My academy was HIGHLY competive, amongst other schools, each other, whatever. It fostered a subculture of masculine showmanship that may be great for the mat/tournament/etc, but was routinely caried out into the street. Fights would occur that never really needed too, but because of the group, you had to prove yourself outside of the academy as well as inside.

I never liked that which is why after a long-struggle with it I chose to leave that particular academy.

Another aspect is we are all protectors. The reason we train isn't to hurt people necessarily but to protect those we care about. I have a hard time explaining my obsession with the combat arts to others but this point usually gets them to better understand it.

I believe many good character traits can be developed through sports as well but there is something to be said about developing the "sheepdog" attribute in all of us that is primarily expressed through the martial arts.

Anyway, there's a whole lot more to explore on this topic, I'll stop rambling now.

Great forum by the way, I hope to learn a bunch and contribute when I can.

 

[still learning]

Hello, Today many people look at martial arts as a sport thing...? ..tournaments...competations...shows..muscial...entertainment parts...

Most people who started out ...(well a few anyway?) want to learn how to defend themselves and fight back...and be able to survive..

Today the forcus is alot on traditions of the pass and today martial arts is alot about $$$ money for the owners and teachers....NOT all.

We need to get back to the basic's ...first physcial excercise...we need to get all our students in to TOP SHAPE FIRST!!

Second do more sparring and more contact learning...we need more solid training for the purpose of defending ourselves and fighting back....

Look around how many people are black belts...and are they able to fight back? ......? can their own students do the same?

anyone can do sports....fighting for real? ...........only you know yourself?...............Aloha (just my thoughts on this)

 

[Steve]

I think that if you're studying martial arts IN ORDER to learn humility, good manners, respect and social justice, you're deluding yourself. In my mind, that's like studying golf to learn these things.

Can these traits be fostered in martial arts? Sure, but only if the emphasis on MARTIAL ARTS is there. Otherwise, it's play acting and pretend. I believe that a sincere and dedicated study of ANYTHING will encourage self-discipline, respect and humility. Learning to dance, play a musical instrument, or engage in any sport will foster all of these traits, but only if the activity is honest itself and imparts some demonstrable skill.

So, to answer the question, martial arts schools that "sell" these traits and espouse to having more in common with a religion than a sport, particularly those catering primarily to kids, are LESS than mere sports. These schools, in my opinion, do a worse job than the average little league in fostering these positive traits.

As far as I'm concerned, any martial arts school that hands out rank without skill, in which students are promoted to black belt according to a schedule, and emphasizes all of these traits over any actual martial ability is actually doing more harm than good. This is exactly how those kids end up singing their hearts out on American Idol, only to have the cold splash of reality come pouring down on their heads. It's a comfortable delusion that I believe our society has embraced, where it's easier to tell our kids that they're all winners than to encourage them to strive and sweat. Success is usually very uncomfortable and hard; that's what makes it worthwhile.

I wrote on my blog a while back about this very same subject. At the time, I said, "Talking to my son about it, I described it in terms of an analogy. He and I had been talking about video games. For a while, when my son discovered the internet, he also discovered cheat codes. He always wanted to show me cheat codes and I kept telling him I wasn't interested. I explained to him that using cheat codes to get through the game or to unlock all of the achievements ruined the game for me. It made me focus on the end of the game and kept me from enjoying everything else. "I would rather,"I told him, "enjoy half of the game and never finish than cheat and not enjoy any of it." Truth is, the end of the game is usually just scrolling credits anyway... underwhelming to say the least.

I see many martial arts as being, functionally, like cheat codes. You don't have to be good at the game anymore to finish. You don't have to learn the technique or figure out the puzzles. Nope. All you need in many martial arts schools now is enough determination and money to stick it out long enough to get the promotions to black belt. I see belt factories as being counter to character development, teaching kids bad habits, not good ones. After all, why should a 10 year old black belt value their rank any more than they do the credits at the end of Final Fantasy X or whatever. Why, for that matter, should any adult?"

I still believe this to be true.

 

[Kacey]

There are plenty of stories about martial arts "saving kids from the street"; there are plenty of stories about other activities - sports, education, recreation centers, etc. - doing the same thing. It depends on the instructor, the circumstances, the situation and personality of the students, etc. However, I do see that such an outcome is more likely in a setting that is, in some way, structured, than in a setting that provides no structure for the participants.

 

[TheOriginalName]

Might i suggest this - you must be fully dedicated to the martial arts in order to "survive" in them. Therefore they attrack and generate strong willed people with great disipline and dedication. Those who join simply to learn how to beat someone up often don't last.
Therefore you could say that those who survive in martial arts are elite.

Now compaire a martial artist to another elite athlete - in the majority of cases we share common traits (dedication, disipline, respect).

So i don't think that martial arts is alone in creating all these wonderful traits and generating awesome memebers of our communities.

That said, the martial arts "formally" trains for these traits whilst other sports don't.

 

[stickarts]

I think because the martial arts can be so devastating that we must balance it with peace and a strong sense of caring for others. We practice something that we don't want to have to actually use on anyone! It is best that we focus on the self development aspects when we are learning something so potentially damaging.

 

[Steve]

Might i suggest this - you must be fully dedicated to the martial arts in order to "survive" in them. Therefore they attrack and generate strong willed people with great disipline and dedication. Those who join simply to learn how to beat someone up often don't last.
Therefore you could say that those who survive in martial arts are elite.

Now compaire a martial artist to another elite athlete - in the majority of cases we share common traits (dedication, disipline, respect).

So i don't think that martial arts is alone in creating all these wonderful traits and generating awesome memebers of our communities.

That said, the martial arts "formally" trains for these traits whilst other sports don't.

I think that it needs to be recognized that there is a huge disparity among schools, styles and training methods. While this is certainly true in some schools, does anyone believe that even 10% of MA schools require anything more than habit and a regular paycheck?

 

[shihansmurf]

I think that it needs to be recognized that there is a huge disparity among schools, styles and training methods. While this is certainly true in some schools, does anyone believe that even 10% of MA schools require anything more than habit and a regular paycheck?

Well, if we take into account how some of the contract using schools operate then the habit part is optional. As long as your payments keep coming then you're just fine.

Seriously, though. You are 100% correct.

Mark

 

[Nomad]

I may be deluding myself here, but it seems to me that one of the reasons that martial arts are "more" than just sport, and do foster (in my experience at least) many of the attributes mentioned by the original poster is the subject matter. Every class we learn ways to hurt, maim and potentially kill people.

This is, IMHO, completely different than, say, learning how to run really fast in Track and Field, or how to kick a ball into a goal in soccer.

This difference certainly should lead to a little introspection, at least, and brings up some pretty clear moral questions. A good school/teacher (which again is critical in this type of development) will occasionally pull out some of these ideas and have a good look at them (possibly but not necessarily through Eastern philosophy).

 

[kaizasosei]

The real question is: Why do the martial arts succeed at teaching these values more than other sports?

If the martial arts are not just about"mere" physical activity, then what else are they about?

that is a good question. i mean first i realized what you were getting at, but i thought that the difference is not that great between combat training and sport. but the above question narrows it down further.
there are some big differences. ma is based on combat which is more 'reality based' than sports. sure you see soccerplayer crying and people going ******* over sports, but that is more like a mass hysteria kind of projection.
martial arts deals with personal protection, communication- both defensive and offensive concepts, ideally ma should rise to the level of some kind of univeral or higher strategy. but at the core ma has to do with instincts and safety.

however, this alone is only the pinacle of the iceberg. ma. combat. hunting. survival. the god of war or combat, if you will...
plays a great role in the pysche of the human being. psychology tells us of deeper realms of awareness and fears and various inconsistancies...
spiriutuality tells us of mercy forgiveness and teachings of love.
in our realm fear of being consumed and the drive to consume is a universal reality. because sport does not aim to crush the spirit but combat for the greater part does. sport has rules but combat does not necessarily adhere to rules.

the ma is most suited for us to learn more about our inner being. to commune with other people, and still other dangers, in training and real combat, like climbing a high trecherous mountain or defending against a wild beast, we face our inner fears in training and in practice.

furthermore,last but not least, knowledge of the body and tempering of its capabilities is also a crucial and most sophisticated aspect of the martial arts.

so the answer is that martial arts teaches us well about the very nature of existance


j

 

[Andrew Green]

Might i suggest this - you must be fully dedicated to the martial arts in order to "survive" in them. Therefore they attrack and generate strong willed people with great disipline and dedication. Those who join simply to learn how to beat someone up often don't last.
Therefore you could say that those who survive in martial arts are elite.

Nonsense, martial arts are available for anyone. From highly dedicated athletes to weekend warriors that dress up in fancy suits and talk about nerve strikes and death blows rather then actually train in a physical way.

That said, the martial arts "formally" trains for these traits whilst other sports don't.

Nope, some coaches do, some don't. Same as in every single sport available. Punch "Coaching character" into google and you will get a ton of results with different theories and methods on how to do this. Pretty much every coaching book I have ever read touches on it.

I'm sorry, I love martial arts too, been doing it for about 20 years now. But at the end of the day it's really nothing "special" when compared to other sports. What can make it special is the same as with all those other sports. Good people to train with, good coaches, and a love for the sport.