Making up your own kata

[hammer]

Thanx for your well thought out reply , to anwser your reply in detail will take more time than i am prepared to give to the subject, if you read my post it was clear enough with out giving a 10 page report, i feel that you have choosen to isolate a pharse or to in the attempt to make an *** of me, those who criticize are usually covering up for their incompetence, cheers

 

[RRouuselot]

Thanx for your well thought out reply , 1) to anwser your reply in detail will take more time than i am prepared to give to the subject, 2) if you read my post it was clear enough with out giving a 10 page report, 3) i feel that you have choosen to isolate a pharse or to in the attempt to make an *** of me, 4) those who criticize are usually covering up for their incompetence, cheers

1)Right…….
2)It was?!?!? I’m sorry my English must be getting poor after living in Asia for a while, I didn’t see where you gave any information about who these “seniors” are, nor did I see any info on how you actually “battle tested” these kata other than a “performing” them at a tournament. It wouldn’t take 10 pages to answer the questions I asked……not even a ½ page. But whatever, your unwillingness to answer speaks volumes to people who are familiar with these types of claims on Martialtalk and other boards.
3)I have chosen to ask you to clarify in more detail certain elements that you brought up on this board…..nothing more. Again, your “non-answer” speaks volumes.
4)Not a very good statement coming from someone who won’t go into specifics about things they claim to have done.

 

[hammer]

Robert, again i would suggest you read the previous post, question 1 weapons: 1 chucks, 2*short stick , 1 karma , question 2 : as practical as possible given the time we live in, sparring ,drilling, applictions, uses .question 3 : respected seniors teachers of other arts as well as my own ,hapkido, kenpo, kung fu, doc paris . question 4:they were ascessed on logic , application, skilling, knowledge of the weapon, history & peformance ect, im sure you get the picture now!! sorry im not in the business of name dropping .cheers

 

[MJS]

Thanx for your well thought out reply , to anwser your reply in detail will take more time than i am prepared to give to the subject, if you read my post it was clear enough with out giving a 10 page report, i feel that you have choosen to isolate a pharse or to in the attempt to make an *** of me, those who criticize are usually covering up for their incompetence, cheers

I have to agree with Robert on this one. He was asking specific questions about the info. that you posted. If you look back at all of his posts, he provides specific information about everything that he posts. He asked specific questions about how things were 'tested' and it appears to me as well, that the question was avoided.

As for providing details...I'm sure that a PM, email, or actual post on here would answer questions. By not 'dropping names' as you say, it does raise some questions about how legit things that are said actually are. You fail to state what weapons you were referring to until your last post, as well as the names of the respected 'masters', as well as if this was in a life and death battle or a competition. Personally, a competition does not, IMO, prove much.

Mike

 

[RRouuselot]

Robert, again A) i would suggest you read the previous post, question B) 1 weapons: 1 chucks, 2*short stick , 1 karma , question 2 : C) as practical as possible given the time we live in, sparring ,drilling, applictions, uses .question 3 : D. ) respected seniors teachers of other arts as well as my own ,hapkido, kenpo, kung fu, doc paris . question 4:E) they were ascessed on logic , application, skilling, knowledge of the weapon, history & peformance ect, im sure you get the picture now!! F)sorry im not in the business of name dropping .cheers

A)I did read your post again and it is not until THIS post that you attempt to answer my questions.
B)“chucks”? “2 short stick”?, “karma”? I can only presume you mean nunchuku, tanbo, and kama…….that is unless you are studying under one of the Ninja Turtles then it would be "numchucks" and make you a fellow "chucker"......
C)I get the picture now…..so you never actually used tested them in real life situations, just kinda worked on some stuff in somebody’s dojo.
D)Still means nothing unless there are names to go along with those classified as “respected”….it’s a pretty ambiguous word. I might respect someone but another person may think he is a clown…..I think you get the picture. And by the way it’s Doce Pares*…..you should at least learn how to spell the arts and weapons you claim to know.
E)Based on logic, application, “skilling”, knowledge of the weapon, history AND performance as well……..WOW! Must make it really good stuff then. NOT based on actual use in real life though is it????
F)There was another guy on here a while back that refused to give the name of people he trained with or was ranked from. People asked him to cough up some proof that he had rank in an art he claimed it in for 6 bloody months…….finally he showed it to some people and it was painfully obvious the he or someone had cut and pasted it together from other certificates and wrote his name in really bad Japanese, plus stamped it with a fake “hanko”.

Sorry sport but based on what little information you have posted and your basic lack of knowledge of martial arts terms/styles you claim to have trained in thus far you are not convincing me that what you have “invented” is something viable. I think if you were to go to any club like Doce Pares or Dan Inosanto they would smoke you with ease.





*The name Doce Pares was adopted in
reference to the famous twelve bodyguards
of Emperor Charlemagne of France (AD 768-814).
these twelve people all top swordsmen were
known to have fought and killed hundreds of
enemies in battles. Doce Pares which means
"Twelve pairs" in spanish, was meant also to
honor the twelve people who originally planned
to form the orgnization, and when the
membership rose to twenty four at the time
of the inauguration, it indeed became more
significantly fitting

 

[ppko]

My own personal opinion is that when students are asked to “make up” their own kata this just opens the door for them to “make up” their own style in the future.

finally we can agree on something

 

[ppko]

D)Still means nothing unless there are names to go along with those classified as “respected”….it’s a pretty ambiguous word. I might respect someone but another person may think he is a clown…..I think you get the picture.

I am going to have to agree with Rob on this (and if you know anything about the history between us you would know that we do not agree on much) how are we exposed to know that these are individuals that are respected in the Martial Arts without the names. If we are not told the names than how can we validate what is said, I am not trying to start an argument with you just trying to find out more about what is being said. If your katas are like you said they were then more power to you, but it is hard to come up with katas that are better or even as good as the ones that have been battlefield tested

 

[jdam76]

Nothing wrong with creativity.

 

[RRouuselot]

I am going to have to agree with Rob on this (and if you know anything about the history between us you would know that we do not agree on much) how are we exposed to know that these are individuals that are respected in the Martial Arts without the names. If we are not told the names than how can we validate what is said, I am not trying to start an argument with you just trying to find out more about what is being said. If your katas are like you said they were then more power to you, but it is hard to come up with katas that are better or even as good as the ones that have been battlefield tested

PPKO
There will always people on these boards that think/claim that have come up with something new or better which I am always doubtful of. Not because I don’t think the MA could use some improving mind you, it’s just that there are only a limited number of ways you can whack someone. After several thousands years of developing and refining hand to hand combat and combat with ancient weapons I think mankind has pretty much covered all the bases and exhausted any avenues for making “new techniques”.
For example: I thought I had come up with a "new" hand to hand technique, however, my friend showed me almost the exact same technique I thought I had “discovered” in an 18th Century German text on hand to hand combat. What I thought I had “invented” was already invented by someone 200 years earlier that had already found it and put it to pen and paper in a book.
These “Christopher Columbus’*” of the MA will always pop up on these boards claiming to have built a better mouse trap and with the near impossibility of actually demonstrating it on the internet they pretty much go unchecked and can feel free to claim anything, especially since they almost always refuse to give any facts, or ways to corroborate what they claim.


*Ol’ Chris thought he discovered the NEW World but some natives beat him to it by about 30,000 years.

 

[ppko]

PPKO
There will always people on these boards that think/claim that have come up with something new or better which I am always doubtful of. Not because I don’t think the MA could use some improving mind you, it’s just that there are only a limited number of ways you can whack someone. After several thousands years of developing and refining hand to hand combat and combat with ancient weapons I think mankind has pretty much covered all the bases and exhausted any avenues for making “new techniques”.
For example: I thought I had come up with a "new" hand to hand technique, however, my friend showed me almost the exact same technique I thought I had “discovered” in an 18th Century German text on hand to hand combat. What I thought I had “invented” was already invented by someone 200 years earlier that had already found it and put it to pen and paper in a book.
These “Christopher Columbus’*” of the MA will always pop up on these boards claiming to have built a better mouse trap and with the near impossibility of actually demonstrating it on the internet they pretty much go unchecked and can feel free to claim anything, especially since they almost always refuse to give any facts, or ways to corroborate what they claim.


*Ol’ Chris thought he discovered the NEW World but some natives beat him to it by about 30,000 years.

Yeah I agree, I was once told that if there is a way that your body can move than there is probably a kata that shows how to attack it. Don't know if that is true or not (I don't know every kata out there), but I wouldn't doubt it.

 

[RRouuselot]

Yeah I agree, I was once told that if there is a way that your body can move than there is probably a kata that shows how to attack it. Don't know if that is true or not (I don't know every kata out there), but I wouldn't doubt it.

We only train 12 empty hand kata and the techniques contained in those 12 covers a LOT of different situations........ there is actually more than enough for someone to defend themselves from most types of attacks.

 

[ppko]

We only train 12 empty hand kata and the techniques contained in those 12 covers a LOT of different situations........ there is actually more than enough for someone to defend themselves from most types of attacks.

I can agree with that

 

[ppko]

Just didn't understand where you were coming from all is forgivin

Someone gave me a negative ding for this statement don't understand that but anyway oh well I guess that you just can't get along with everyone

 

[Jibbler]

i think many people are missing one importent fact. all kata are made up all fighting is made up by people. where do you think the tradtinol katas come from? The creators of each martial art made them so whats wrong with making your own if it is a sound principle it is based on? the new kata my be even more useful then the traditonal kata.

 

[MJS]

i think many people are missing one importent fact. all kata are made up all fighting is made up by people. where do you think the tradtinol katas come from? The creators of each martial art made them so whats wrong with making your own if it is a sound principle it is based on? the new kata my be even more useful then the traditonal kata.

Well, a question that I have asked is: What is wrong with the katas that are already in the system??? Again, nothing wrong with doing it for a pre-req for BB, but the point of this thread was someone making up katas to add to their system. Actually, the inst. was having his students make up the kata.

Mike

 

[Jibbler]

i said nothing is wrong with the traditonol kata i was just saying that the orginol kata where also made up, i don't think students should be forced to make their own kata defently not when they start.

 

[RRouuselot]

i said nothing is wrong with the traditonol kata i was just saying that the orginol kata where also made up, i don't think students should be forced to make their own kata defently not when they start.

Many of them were not "made up" but rather "made from" actual experiences....a big difference

 

[Jibbler]

yes i agree that many come from exprence i was just commenting on how many people think that makeing your own kata is evil and wrong while it isn't

 

[MJS]

yes i agree that many come from exprence i was just commenting on how many people think that makeing your own kata is evil and wrong while it isn't

I'm afraid that the point is still being missed here. There are many arts out there that contain kata. Its one thing to just perform the kata, but to truly understand it can take quite a long time.

Again, the inst. of this school is having his students make up the katas. Why does this inst. find it necessary to do this, when there are kata already in his art? Whats wrong with those kata?

This inst. sounds to me like he's running your typical McDojo! Teaching a half-baked art, telling and making students believe that he's teaching them something great, and taking their money! I guess you get what you pay for.

Mike

 

[E0richt]

There is a school in our area that makes up there own kata (rather the teacher has there students make them up) and this is how they are going to decide the kata that will go into there curriculum. To me this is an outrage just wanting your thoughts.

I think its better than traditional Kata as students don't understand what the application of traditional movements are. Add in the fact that gichin funakoshi changed traditional Kata to make it simpler for children while trying to get karate in schools.
If there are self defense 2 man forms, they could be a basis for kata that would be easier for students to remember.