Make them sell cake...

[granfire]

The part I don't get is the bakery clearly has on their website they believe marriage is between a man and woman and have bible verses so why did this gay couple want to give them any of their money in the first place?

maybe they just wanted cup cakes and walked in?

 

[arnisador]

I think the govt going after them opens a slippery slope. Say I just don't have time to make their cake and they file discrimination claim. Now I need to spend my time and money defending a false accusation.

This is the downside of a lot of these laws--like not firing a bad employee b/c he/she would be well set up to claim discrimination and it'd be a costly lawsuit even if you won.

 

[billc]

The part I don't get is the bakery clearly has on their website they believe marriage is between a man and woman and have bible verses so why did this gay couple want to give them any of their money in the first place?

They didn't, they wanted to make an example of them...

 

[billc]

As to making an example of them...

The bakery made cakes for this couple before, they just refused to do a wedding cake on religious grounds...here is a more detailed look at the case...

There is a video...

http://hotair.com/archives/2013/09/03/oregon-bakery-closes-doors-after-state-investigates-over-refusal-to-cater-same-sex-wedding/

Second, note what the guy says in the clip about how they’ve made cakes for this couple before. They don’t refuse to serve gay customers, they refuse to serve gay weddings specifically. The same is true, I assume, of the New Mexico photographer. That’s a potential line of attack for social-conservative pols as they start to push back against cases like this — this isn’t a categorical refusal to serve a minority group, it’s a religious objection to serving at one particular type of event in which that group participates. That may not help them legally but it’ll help in the court of public opinion, where the majority in support of religious exemptions in situations like this is already overwhelming. I’d be surprised if we don’t start seeing legislative hearings about it, whether in Congress or at the state level, sometime next year.

The latter filed a complaint with the state under the relevant antidiscrimination law and an investigation, which could have taken up to a year, was launched. The bakers, having already been targeted for a boycott by opponents and likely fearing the expense and aggravation of a long court battle themselves, decided to close the shop and move operations into their home, which presumably renders the business “distinctly private” and therefore beyond the reach of the state’s public accommodations law. (Does it?)

Watch the extended interview with them about what they’ve gone through, paying special attention to the bit in the middle about “mafia tactics” by some gay-rights supporters.

 

[billc]

We choose to live in a civil society.

Hmmmm...you won't make us a cake...then we will use the government to take your business from you...

Yeah, I guess that is a little more civilized...

 

[ballen0351]

maybe they just wanted cup cakes and walked in?

No they wanted a wedding cake.

 

[billc]

This is the interesting part...

Second, note what the guy says in the clip about how they’ve made cakes for this couple before. They don’t refuse to serve gay customers, they refuse to serve gay weddings specifically.

 

[ballen0351]

Not all forms of discrimination are banned. You could discriminate against many groups of people but some forms have been outlawed. We choose to live in a civil society.

I understand that. My view is I'd rather know who wants and deserves my money. By forcing a business to serve someone like a minority you might be giving your money to someone that smiles to your face and hates you. Id rater just know in advance. That's just me I'd prefer to give my money to better people

 

[granfire]

No they wanted a wedding cake.

Still...maybe they just walked into a bakery and asked for it....
Revolutionary concept: Walk-ins....

We got a place around the corner...I had not considerd checking them out via web. They make cakes, that should be enough, right?

 

[ballen0351]

Still...maybe they just walked into a bakery and asked for it....
Revolutionary concept: Walk-ins....

We got a place around the corner...I had not considerd checking them out via web. They make cakes, that should be enough, right?

OK most people don't just walk into the first place they see to buy a wedding cake. But I guess its possible. Either way if they don't want my money then I def don't want to give it to them.

 

[granfire]

OK most people don't just walk into the first place they see to buy a wedding cake. But I guess its possible. Either way if they don't want my money then I def don't want to give it to them.

Well, it might have been like with our cake needs 'Hey, who made your cake?' 'Soandso down the street' 'Oh cool, let's go there'

But most certainly, if they are too rich to take my money, why force them to take it!

 

[ballen0351]

Well, it might have been like with our cake needs 'Hey, who made your cake?' 'Soandso down the street' 'Oh cool, let's go there'

But most certainly, if they are too rich to take my money, why force them to take it!

I guess I'm different then I check out everything. I Google damn near every place I go

 

[Steve]

Hmmmm...you won't make us a cake...then we will use the government to take your business from you...

Yeah, I guess that is a little more civilized...

That's actually pretty much the definition of civilized. But what protected base would a nazi fall under? Is that a recognized religion?

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[Steve]

This is the interesting part...

It's the gay part, not the wedding part that is relevant, since in Oregon they have chosen to include sexual orientation as a protected class. Discriminating sometimes is still discrimination.

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[granfire]

I guess I'm different then I check out everything. I Google damn near every place I go

I guess I am not that jaded after all....
Then again, I live in a small town...a lot of places have really crappy web pages - word of mouth IS the best way to find a good shop!

 

[Tgace]

My wife works in the wedding industry....its a fairly common occurrence to have a man walk in and request to try on wedding dresses. They are typically allowed with specific instructions regarding underwear...nudity etc. Not a one has been known to actually return to buy a dress. Most people in the industry believe these to be attempts at discrimination lawsuits or at the least an attempt to "out" stores in the media.

If this bakery was ever explicit in its religious stance I don't doubt for a second that this couldn't have been a "hit" vs a legit customer.


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[arnisador]

If this bakery was ever explicit in its religious stance I don't doubt for a second that this couldn't have been a "hit" vs a legit customer.

Could be. There are people who have made a career of ADA lawsuits. I'm no fan of entrapment but on the other hand not breaking the law is a good defense here.

 

[Bob Hubbard]

Discrimination laws are easily abused. Eliminate them. Let businesses serve or refuse to serve whomever they want. Let those refused protest if they want. Let consumers boycott or boost whomever they want. As a consumer, I don't want a business that doesn't want my business forced to do business with me. They'd do a half-assed job or the least needed done to say they did it. I can go elsewhere and get exceptional service. You might have to go a bit further, but I'd rather drive an hour than patronize someone who has an issue.

My 2c.

 

[ballen0351]

I guess I am not that jaded after all....
Then again, I live in a small town...a lot of places have really crappy web pages - word of mouth IS the best way to find a good shop!

I don't know if its jaded or I just like to see. If I wanted a wedding cake I'd want to see pictures of other cakes they did so I'd look online. Our wedding cake was made by a family member so I didn't go to a bakery and even then we looked online to get ideas.

 

[Steve]

Could be. There are people who have made a career of ADA lawsuits. I'm no fan of entrapment but on the other hand not breaking the law is a good defense here.

Yeah, in the same way 2nd amendment nuts try to entrap cops.

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