Made-up Kata & Long Dead Master's!

[paihequan]

How many of you have heard of people making up their own Kata (Forms) and then for commercial reason's attaching the name of some long dead master to the form in the hope of gaining credibility for the kata and the person who made it up?

What if that person then commenced to sell this so-called Kata on a video to anyone who would part with their hard earned money in the belief they were actually getting footage of a form with genuine lineage to the long dead master?

Is this not disrespectful to the memory of the long dead master whose name was tagged on to the kata?

Is this not lying to the students and other well-paying punters who line up at seminars to learn what they incorrectly believe is a true historically correct form?

Is this type of practice not genuine martial arts fraud?

 

[chufeng]

Yes to all of those questions...
Dishonorable...and one who would do that is NOT a martial artist, even if they know how to fight...there is more to the martial arts than just fighting.

:asian:
chufeng

 

[A.R.K.]

I agree with Chufeng.

If you are going to create a kata for some reason, why attach someone's name to it?

I have heard of creating kata to 'fill in' between already established kata in a system, but it was stated so from the beginning. Kanie Uechi being a case in point.

:asian:

 

[TLH3rdDan]

yes to all of the above... of course creating a new kata or form is not a crime or disresptfull but... attaching someones name to it to give it credibility is just plain wrong... if it cant stand on its own then work on it till it can

 

[Matt Stone]

While I agree with all of the comments above, it must be borne in mind that much of what has been passed off as "history" in martial arts amounts to the exact same thing we are protesting here - the use of someone else's reputation or prestige to lend legitimacy to someone else's work.

This has happened all through martial arts history, and will likely continue. The difference between then and now? Fora like this one, where we can share information and expose the frauds for what they are, thereby policing ourselves and maintaining some level of standard in the MA community at large.

Gambarimasu.
:asian:

 

[Marginal]

The made up ones keep popping up on ESPN 2. Love that random bellowing and flipping around with a chrome nunchaku...

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by paihequan
How many of you have heard of people making up their own Kata (Forms) and then for commercial reason's attaching the name of some long dead master to the form in the hope of gaining credibility for the kata and the person who made it up?

What if that person then commenced to sell this so-called Kata on a video to anyone who would part with their hard earned money in the belief they were actually getting footage of a form with genuine lineage to the long dead master?

Is this not disrespectful to the memory of the long dead master whose name was tagged on to the kata?

Is this not lying to the students and other well-paying punters who line up at seminars to learn what they incorrectly believe is a true historically correct form?

Is this type of practice not genuine martial arts fraud?

If memory serves Ron you were once accused of all or most of those by several respected martial artists at one time during your “Soke, Hanshi, Kyoshi, Sifu, and Shinshi” days.
I think it was your ol' pal the well respected martial historian Patrick McCarthy that questioned some of your claims about the origin of your kata............however I am sure you covered your tracks since then..........you always manage to.

 

[yilisifu]

I must agree with both Chufeng and Yiliquan 1.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by Yiliquan1
This has happened all through martial arts history, and will likely continue. The difference between then and now? Fora like this one, where we can share information and expose the frauds for what they are, thereby policing ourselves and maintaining some level of standard in the MA community at large.
:asian:

AMEN to that!!!

 

[paihequan]

Welcome to "Martial Talk" ... the "Friendly Discussion about the Martial Arts!"

A special hi to Mr. Robert Rousselot alias "RyuShiKan". It's great to know that you are still around!

Not posting anymore on E-Budo Robert? Why is that?:asian:

All the best my old mate!

 

[arnisador]

Originally posted by paihequan
Welcome to "Martial Talk" ... the "Friendly Discussion about the Martial Arts!"

This is certainly our goal. However, a certain amount of context may be relevant--as long as it does not grow into a meaningless and prolonged flame war.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

 

[paihequan]

It is not all that friendly at the moment ........

This is certainly our goal. However, a certain amount of context may be relevant--as long as it does not grow into a meaningless and prolonged flame war.

-Arnisador
-MT Admin-

Sir, I agree 100%.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by paihequan
Welcome to "Martial Talk" ... the "Friendly Discussion about the Martial Arts!"

A special hi to Mr. Robert Rousselot alias "RyuShiKan". It's great to know that you are still around!

Not posting anymore on E-Budo Robert? Why is that?:asian:

All the best my old mate!

The answer to your questions can be found here:
http://www.martialtalk.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&postid=120192#post120192

 

[KennethKu]

Thankyou for the tip-off, Mr. Rousselot. Much appreciated.

 

[RyuShiKan]

Originally posted by KennethKu
Thankyou for the tip-off, Mr. Rousselot. Much appreciated.

No problem Ken.

Just as I would never want a convicted child molester moving into my neighborhood I would take great offense to Ron coming here passing his flatulent bits of “wisdom” around and trying to have us believe they smelled like roses……..or at the very least plagiarizing others then posting them as his own without the good members of MT having a bit of background info on him.
MT is for the most part a “Fraud Free Zone” and I for one would like to keep it that way.

Ron you have your own playground over at your own BBs as well as your good pal and comrade in BS Mike “flipper” Davis’ website called the Vital Point something or other. I think you can satisfy your thirst for adulation with those 2 BBs, don’t you………

Go here to find out about “flipper” and his SEAL adventures:
http://www.authentiseal.org/mjd2.htm

and here:

http://www.authentiseal.org/mjd.html

 

[KennethKu]

Originally posted by RyuShiKan
....MT is for the most part a “Fraud Free Zone” and I for one would like to keep it that way.....

My sentiment exactly.

There are growing signs of "fraud" invoking MT rules to cover their ***.