Low horse stance (Ma Bu)...

[Rob87]

Hi,

I'm starting to train Shaolin Kung Fu so I have started training my Ma Bu. Is the best way to train it simply to sit in it for as long as possible? I must admit, I can only manage about 1 minute at the moment. What is a good goal to be aiming towards in terms of duration?

Many thanks. Rob.

 

[oaktree]

Hi Rob
Ma bu is more mental than anything else but you feel the pain physically.

Ma Bu takes development. Like any skill it takes time.
Maybe this week you do 1 minute and next week you can do 2 minutes.

Try not to focus so much on what you are experiencing let what you are feeling go.

 

[clfsean]

Breathe... just breathe... the rest will happen.

But initially you should look at proper structure & alignment of your body as a whole in sei ping ma. And breathe...

 

[Xue Sheng]

To quote my last Xingyquan sifu about stance training.

If you feel pain in the joints tell me about it and I will adjust your posture. If you are feeling muscle pain…well…shut up and stand there because I don’t want to hear it.

Ma Bu is basic, a very important basic, it takes time and it cannot be rushed. Just stand as long as you can each day and eventually you will find you are standing 10, 20 , 30 minutes or more.

 

[fangjian]

Hi,

I'm starting to train Shaolin Kung Fu so I have started training my Ma Bu. Is the best way to train it simply to sit in it for as long as possible? I must admit, I can only manage about 1 minute at the moment. What is a good goal to be aiming towards in terms of duration?

Many thanks. Rob.

I think from an Anatomy and Physiology standpoint, doing anything especially Mabu for as long as possible is not good. You have to ask yourself, what is good to do, for very long durations? Pretty much nothing. Bench pressing, running, mabu, ...................

I had surgery last year for developing bone spurs on my hips. My doctor mentioned that hockey goalies and catchers often develop this problem. I don't know if years of mabu training was responsible for mine, but the stance that these athletes have to stay in for long durations are strikingly similar to what we do, eh?

Tell your shifu to chill out, if he/she is trying to make you all do it for multiple minutes at a time.

 

[Josh Oakley]

Right now I would say a minute is more than fine if you just started out. The focus right now needs to be proper body alignment, while you develop flexibility and strength. I had taught the hardcore,, go-as-long-and-low-as-you-can medhod, without worrying about body alignment as much at first until I had a couple of students tell me their doctors were warning them of preliminary patellar subluxation. Apparently if you develop the muscles on the outside of the leg to fast, especially if you're young, it can pull the kneecap to the outside of the groove it's supposed to sit in.

 

[fangjian]

Right now I would say a minute is more than fine if you just started out. The focus right now needs to be proper body alignment, while you develop flexibility and strength. I had taught the hardcore,, go-as-long-and-low-as-you-can medhod, without worrying about body alignment as much at first until I had a couple of students tell me their doctors were warning them of preliminary patellar subluxation. Apparently if you develop the muscles on the outside of the leg to fast, especially if you're young, it can pull the kneecap to the outside of the groove it's supposed to sit in.

Right. Many athletes I had heard that had professional training on wushu teams, have had this happen to them. A friend of mine that graduated from Shanghai Univ in the wushu program, told me that some of her friends are somewhat bow legged now from too much stance work.

 

[clfsean]

I think from an Anatomy and Physiology standpoint, doing anything especially Mabu for as long as possible is not good. You have to ask yourself, what is good to do, for very long durations? Pretty much nothing. Bench pressing, running, mabu, ...................

I had surgery last year for developing bone spurs on my hips. My doctor mentioned that hockey goalies and catchers often develop this problem. I don't know if years of mabu training was responsible for mine, but the stance that these athletes have to stay in for long durations are strikingly similar to what we do, eh?

Tell your shifu to chill out, if he/she is trying to make you all do it for multiple minutes at a time.

If it's done properly (not wushu-ized), you're fine. There's a laundry list of TCMA practitioners that drop a sei ping ma well into their 70's & 80's. When damage occurs, just like anything, it's due to incorrect & improper training. Trust me I know this. Years of training improperly killed my hip joints.

However years of doing a proper sei ping ma have actually built the muscles in my hips & pelvis. While this doesn't reverse the damage done to the bone, the added musclular strength & stability have alleviated some of the pain I used to endure.

Moving horses are much better than static, but you have to learn to crawl first.

 

[Josh Oakley]

That's why I use a narrower horse stance. It's not as awesome looking but it's still useful for building up the legs.I feel it more directly on the top of the quad, now.

stance training is not something I can just go with out, IMO. I have no meniscus in my right knee, and how much pain I feel in my knee is directly related to the strength of the surrounding muscles. I take too much of a break from stance work, and I REALLY know it.

 

[fenglong]

Hi,

I'm starting to train Shaolin Kung Fu so I have started training my Ma Bu. Is the best way to train it simply to sit in it for as long as possible? I must admit, I can only manage about 1 minute at the moment. What is a good goal to be aiming towards in terms of duration?

Many thanks. Rob.

Whole day.

Not everything traditional is useless in modern times, nor are its advantages obvious.
But remember, even the longest journey begins with a single step.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Right. Many athletes I had heard that had professional training on wushu teams, have had this happen to them. A friend of mine that graduated from Shanghai Univ in the wushu program, told me that some of her friends are somewhat bow legged now from too much stance work.

Big BIG difference from what they train you for a Wushu team, especially on mainland china and what you are trained in a traditional CMA. Much of modern (performance) wushu trained in China today will cripple you by the time you are old.

 

[Rob87]

Thanks for the input guys...

I'm not interested in training it for wushu, so I'm not going down so low that my legs are at right angles, I'm training to develop power. I doubt I will be getting any bone spurs doing it this way. The one thing I will look out for however is the preliminary patellar subluxation which makes sense. I think I'll just take it easy day by day.

Thanks again.

 

[fangjian]

Big BIG difference from what they train you for a Wushu team, especially on mainland china and what you are trained in a traditional CMA. Much of modern (performance) wushu trained in China today will cripple you by the time you are old.

Good point. However, I have seen 'traditional' CMA do this flavor of mabu too. OP says he studies 'Shaolin Kung Fu', so that could mean just about anything, the way the term Shaolin gets thrown around.

 

[Rob87]

Sorry, to be more clear I am training Shaolin Longfist (Changquan).

 

[clfsean]

Good point. However, I have seen 'traditional' CMA do this flavor of mabu too.

Said it before, say it again... trained properly from the beginning focusing on proper structure of the body, no worries.

There's crap in TCMA just like in anything else.

OP says he studies 'Shaolin Kung Fu', so that could mean just about anything, the way the term Shaolin gets thrown around.

Yep.