Blade96
Senior Master
the sperminator 
Love Child or Bastard ... what's in a name?
- Thread starter MA-Caver
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David43515
Master Black Belt
Language changes in use right along with fashion. There`s absolutely nothing wrong with the words "bastard,cripple,fat,retarded,dumb,or whore". They`re words with specific meanings that were used for hundreds of years. But people added their own sense of superiority to them and began using them as a slur. So we no longer have midgets or dwarves, we have "little people". No one is mentally retarded, they`re "developmentally challenged".....despite the fact that retarded just means slower than normal. I was born and raised in Ohio, family`s been there since one of my ancestor`s got a land grant as his Army pension for fighting in the war of 1812. But you can bet I`d catch alot of flack if I ever tried to refer to myself as a native American. Personally I think it`s foolishness. IT`s one of the reasons that we have company execs claiming that "unfortunate mistruthes circulated" rather than saying "someone lied".
Got news for you. I`m not over-weight, pleasingly plump, or even calloricly challenged....I`m fat. My hair isn`t thinning either, it`s falling out. I`m going bald. What`s left isn`t silver either, it`s grey because I`m getting old. Not because i`m advancing in years, or maturing (something my wife NEVER accused me of), but because I`m getting old. And I`m okay with it.
Got news for you. I`m not over-weight, pleasingly plump, or even calloricly challenged....I`m fat. My hair isn`t thinning either, it`s falling out. I`m going bald. What`s left isn`t silver either, it`s grey because I`m getting old. Not because i`m advancing in years, or maturing (something my wife NEVER accused me of), but because I`m getting old. And I`m okay with it.
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Blade96
Senior Master
David43515
Master Black Belt
Sorry about that last post. I was in a bit of a mood. Even I read that and though "what an a**hole."
LOL, I thought it was refreshingly to the point.
Well, aside from the fact that I can get on a diet, or buy a wig...changing the manner in which I was conceived, not so much.
Actually what's extra interesting in Game of Thrones (and more specifically the books where it all started) is that Bastards in that world have a special last name they take to denote that they are a bastard.
So Jon Snow being a child of the north, has the last name of Snow and not Stark in the series because all children given the last name of Snow are bastards in the northern part of that world. There's also other last names for bastards based around where they were from such as Waters, Storm, Sand, etc.
Anyhoo it's just an interesting concept. I mean imagine if we actually did that in real life, it'd be like permanent branding and everyone would know you held no legitimate claim to any family inheritance. Can you imagine if your father is John Smith, your mother Jane Doe, but you get to be Jimmy Doomed or something equally awkward of a name that is clearly not from your parents?
Interesting point Shima.
As an imperfect (but real-life) comparison...I have relatives who decided to give their child a last name that was different from either of their own. Their reasons why are outside the scope of this discussion, but I will say that they were unique and personal...and unrelated to the parentage of the child.
This was very difficult for the older folks (particularly the child's grandparents), because they associate different last names with matters such as illegitimacy, remarriage, questionable parentage -- none of which applied to the child in question.
However, the child's name was not Jimmy Doom. :lol: As far as I can tell...they have not seemed to mind their unique name while growing up. It certainly hasn't affected their academic performance (just graduated from high school, with honors, and heading to college).
I think what bothered the grandparents the most was the child being "labeled" in a negative way...or perhaps the child being labeled something they were not. Considering that bothered the grandmother in particular for a very long time (sadly, she's now passed on), I wonder if that has bothered her more than the child actually being illegitimate?
As an imperfect (but real-life) comparison...I have relatives who decided to give their child a last name that was different from either of their own. Their reasons why are outside the scope of this discussion, but I will say that they were unique and personal...and unrelated to the parentage of the child.
This was very difficult for the older folks (particularly the child's grandparents), because they associate different last names with matters such as illegitimacy, remarriage, questionable parentage -- none of which applied to the child in question.
However, the child's name was not Jimmy Doom. :lol: As far as I can tell...they have not seemed to mind their unique name while growing up. It certainly hasn't affected their academic performance (just graduated from high school, with honors, and heading to college).
I think what bothered the grandparents the most was the child being "labeled" in a negative way...or perhaps the child being labeled something they were not. Considering that bothered the grandmother in particular for a very long time (sadly, she's now passed on), I wonder if that has bothered her more than the child actually being illegitimate?
Nomad
Master Black Belt
The difficulty is that many words, while their technical meaning may be accurate, acquire baggage through usage. If a term is used by enough people over a long enough time as a derogatory comment designed to hurt someone, then it will continue to do so, even if the person using the word means it in it's original context. You can't readily divorce the term from the negative connotations.
On this basis, it's sometimes useful to make new terms that don't carry the same message of scorn or ridicule.
Language is never constant; it evolves constantly, and the meanings of words and the message the word carries changes over time. This is natural drift, and will happen. Calling someone a "scoundrel" or a "mountebank" is pretty trivial and meaningless now, but were at one point fairly dire insults.
What's equally interesting is that sometimes a group will collectively work to reclaim a derogatory term and change it's context (see the use of the N-word in rap lyrics... it simply doesn't have the same connotation as when an "outsider" to the group uses it).
Blade96
Senior Master
My so called illegitimate cousins and my illegitimate niece have no problem with their names. They have our family names. and no one cares that the parents werent married. They are treated as just as much a part of our family, because they are, as anyone else.
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
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I wonder what is truely more damaging.. someone calling a person by a name with negative connotations attached to it, or a person who grows up dealing with the fact that his parents were to selfish, or to stupid to dedicate themselves to a strong relationship and a family unit to nurture, protect, and teach the person to be the best person they could in turn be?
Balrog
Master of Arts
I dunno. You haven't really lived until a charming British or Aussie lady has called you a "bahstahd". :lol:
Blade96
Senior Master
with two of my cousins, the father abused their mom who is my first cousin. I am glad they never got married. It would have been harder to get away if she had been. She was not selfish.
LuckyKBoxer
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to have a kid with someone who is not a strong partner for you and for the kid is either selfish or stupid the vast majority of times.
sometimes physical things beyond your control happens, like someone dies, or has a life altering experience, or is raped, or something else that is not normal, and not a valid choice.. sounds like your Aunt was either selfish or stupid in her choices of men.
There is that third choice, her mother was abused and taught her to seek abusive men. Not sure if that one is selfish or stupid given you think its one or the other. I await your brilliant reply, or did you just need to insult some random poster's Aunt?
Sean
Balrog
Master of Arts
Howsabout a Bostonian? The accent is similar
Can't answer that. So far, I've only been called a bahstahd by an English lady and an Aussie lady. I guess I haven't offended any ladies from Boston. Yet. :lol:
LuckyKBoxer
Master Black Belt
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I toss ignorant in with stupid. You can change ignorant, but the decisions made involving either is usually the same.. The fact remains if what you say is true there was still a choice made, and it was a bad choice. If a person grows up in a family full of criminals and grows up to break a law we throw them in jail, we don't say well they had a bad upbringing so lets go ahead and forgive them.. of course thats what the defense attorneys want you to believe, and in the worst situations sometimes some mercy is shown and charges are reduced but the fact remains that we hold people accountable for their actions.
to many people now days think that its perfectly ok to just run around have sex and if you get knocked up its a minor annoyance... collect child support, or welfare, or other forms of public support(male or female) send the kids to others to take care of and still go about your day with or without the mother/father... its not ok, but it seems to be getting a pass from our society as normal simply because more and more people are doing it, yet our economy is failing, everything wrong you can imagine is happening more and more... is it a symptom or a cause? who knows but in regards to family and having kids, like I said in the vast majority of cases its a choice, a choice that can easily be made one way or the other, and when it does not work out well it can almost always be linked back directly to selfish or stupid choices...change out ignorant with stupid if it makes you sleep better at night Sean. It was not an insult its the truth. Give me a reason that is not based on selfishness or stupidty/ignorance.... other then what I mentioned previously about rape, etc. and I see if its not a choice... you example was still a choice... seeking out abusive men is a choice afterall.
Ignorance is a better term.
Blade96
Senior Master
My cousin (not aunt) was just a teenager at the time, and sometimes teens make dumb choices. and she had 2 kids as a teen.
When she got older and more mature, she left him.
like i said i am glad she wasn't married to the jerk. would have made it harder.Hey.
My cousin's Mom (yes my aunt) never real had a family, she was adopted. And yes she had issues which she may have passed on to her daughter who wound up a teen mom. Luckily, her other sisters turned out well, one was grown and married when she had kids, and the other is in late 30's is childless and unmarried but has a good bf of like 6 years maybe.
The teen mom's children are now young adults, hold down jobs, and are still not married and have no children though one has a long time bf.
