looking for some info.

[Martial D]

I don't Facebook. I don't have a lot of hard and fast rules, but that's one.

We did mostly rolling hands(my apologies, I don't remember all the Chinese terms), and a sort of one handed fencing.

As for application, we did do a fair amount of sparring, with the objective being quick resolution. I guess that is the case for all Wing Chun, lol.

We also did a fair amount of Arnis and there was some inevitable bleed over.

I do remember a couple other things now. I remember two specific things Bruce contrasted with our Wing Chun. One was the large lunging steps of William Cheung(so it's not that) and the other being something called T stepping which we didn't use.

Also, the spelling was Wing Chun not Ving Chun or some other variety.

I think you guys are right about it being a Yip Man derivation. Thanks to all

 

[Martial D]

Do any of you know anything about Sifu Fred Kwok out of Vancouver?

His SLT is the most similar I've seen, and he also incorporates Filipino stuff. I wonder if that's the link.

 

[geezer]

Do any of you know anything about Sifu Fred Kwok out of Vancouver?

His SLT is the most similar I've seen, and he also incorporates Filipino stuff. I wonder if that's the link.

What you showed was clearly coming from Yip Man, although the sequence was not exactly like the groups I'm personally familiar with. Your former sifu may well have made some personal modifications. Also, unless you trained for a long while, its likely that some of your movements are less than perfect replicas of whatever your sifu taught you, especially since that was some time ago?

Regardless, if you are interested in training again, why not just find a really good school and pick up afresh? It's not like you have a lifetime invested in the particular version you trained before. Or do you?

 

[Martial D]

What you showed was clearly coming from Yip Man, although the sequence was not exactly like the groups I'm personally familiar with. Your former sifu may well have made some personal modifications. Also, unless you trained for a long while, its likely that some of your movements are less than perfect replicas of whatever your sifu taught you, especially since that was some time ago?

Regardless, if you are interested in training again, why not just find a really good school and pick up afresh? It's not like you have a lifetime invested in the particular version you trained before. Or do you?

Naw that's not it. I'm a lifelong student and have practiced various styles, including boxing, kickboxing, JKD, wing chun, and BJJ. I'm not really looking to train pure Wing Chun as I don't feel it is combat effective on it's own, but what I did learn has become a vital part of my physical expression. This curiosity I have is purely of an intellectual nature.

As for the slt, the movements are the same, of this I am very sure.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

What you showed was clearly coming from Yip Man, although the sequence was not exactly like the groups I'm personally familiar with. Your former sifu may well have made some personal modifications. Also, unless you trained for a long while, its likely that some of your movements are less than perfect replicas of whatever your sifu taught you, especially since that was some time ago?

Regardless, if you are interested in training again, why not just find a really good school and pick up afresh? It's not like you have a lifetime invested in the particular version you trained before. Or do you?

They sequence is pretty standard YM wing chun, I reckon man.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

Would you use forward pressure in Chi Sao? Such that if the partner pulled his arms away the hands would spring forward on their own? I am really beginning to think this is a Wong Shun Leung derivative. Keeping in mind that the preciseness of his form is probably a little off over the years of not training.

 

[Nobody Important]

So the jut/jum sau part after the tan/gan part can narrow it down some. Yep, agree its Yip Man. This is not Chu Shong Tin. But I know WSL guys have that part of the form. Not Austine Fong. Not Leung TIng. Out of all the forms I have seen, it looks the most like WSL style.

I came to the same conclusion. Most resembles WSL in movement.

 

[geezer]

Would you use forward pressure in Chi Sao? Such that if the partner pulled his arms away the hands would spring forward on their own? I am really beginning to think this is a Wong Shun Leung derivative.

Not so (Oh, the system Martial D learned may be a WSL VT derivative. I can't speak to that). But the idea of springy energy or maintaining constant forward pressure so that your hand will spring forward automatically when freed, is a core tenant of Leung Ting's WT and it's offshoots (one of which I train). However, in some groups, such as ours, the springy energy is soft and very light. Others prefer heavier pressure (EBMAS for example).

I have found that the WT groups emphasize this particular springy energy attribute far more than what I've personally seen with the few members of other lineages I've crossed bridges with locally, including the Sam Kwok/Ip Chun folks, some Augustine Fong guys, a Duncan Leung guy, a HFY guy, and a few other folks I've met locally. --I haven't met any WSL guys around here yet. Maybe somebody will turn up. That would be cool....

 

[wingchun100]

Ok, here it is. Kinda sloppy compared to when I was training back then, but hopefully you get the idea.

No clue. Someone posted a video recently (although I think the guy was doing chum kiu) where, after the opening double tan sao, he separates his hands before bringing them back to chamber like you. As for the rest...no clue. Sorry, man.

 

[Martial D]

Thanks again guys.

To answer your Chi Sao question, I was taught to stay 'energy neutral'(a term I distinctly remember) meaning to not expand or contract until the opponent did the converse. Bruce used to term it 'swallowing energy and spitting it back out'. Too much forward pressure means trap and strike(simultaneously), while contracting energy meant break and strike(simultaneously). It's been a minute, that's about all I can remember at the moment.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

Not so (Oh, the system Martial D learned may be a WSL VT derivative. I can't speak to that). But the idea of springy energy or maintaining constant forward pressure so that your hand will spring forward automatically when freed, is a core tenant of Leung Ting's WT and it's offshoots (one of which I train). However, in some groups, such as ours, the springy energy is soft and very light. Others prefer heavier pressure (EBMAS for example).

I have found that the WT groups emphasize this particular springy energy attribute far more than what I've personally seen with the few members of other lineages I've crossed bridges with locally, including the Sam Kwok/Ip Chun folks, some Augustine Fong guys, a Duncan Leung guy, a HFY guy, and a few other folks I've met locally. --I haven't met any WSL guys around here yet. Maybe somebody will turn up. That would be cool....

Well I did a WT for a couple of years and it was soft contact and more about thinking forward than physically doing it. But, yeah I have seen EBMAS stuff and can see there is springy energy there. But if I were to look at, say, Tassos, I can't see it.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

Thanks again guys.

To answer your Chi Sao question, I was taught to stay 'energy neutral'(a term I distinctly remember) meaning to not expand or contract until the opponent did the converse. Bruce used to term it 'swallowing energy and spitting it back out'. Too much forward pressure means trap and strike(simultaneously), while contracting energy meant break and strike(simultaneously). It's been a minute, that's about all I can remember at the moment.

Energy neutral, huh? Hmmmm not very WSL sounding......
WSL don't have a problem with being trapped and use their forward energy effectively to do aggressively get to the target. Also keep in mind that Bruce Lee's main teacher was actually WSL not Yip Man.

 

[Wing Chun Auckland]

You mentioned that you don't do the T step. So what step do you do?
If a strike was coming from someone's left hand, and you use your right hand to pak or tan, which foot would be forward, which would be back? How would you be facing the partner?

 

[ShortBridge]

I don't know, but the expression reminds me a bit of some Leung Sheung players who I know...if you're in a researching mood.

 

[Martial D]

You mentioned that you don't do the T step. So what step do you do?
If a strike was coming from someone's left hand, and you use your right hand to pak or tan, which foot would be forward, which would be back? How would you be facing the partner?

Those are some solid questions.

The t step was described to me as when stepping to bring the heel back to the center of the back foot(I think as a transition) making a T.

The footwork I was taught was a sort of triangle, from your basic sit on your bones front facing stance (50/50) to a more 90/10(front leg nearly weightless) by bringing the feet together parallel and then back out. The net effect was stepping around and setting up shifts to trap and attack.

That combined with a sort of drag step(again, I don't remember much of the chinese.) Where the weight never comes off the back foot.

As for your second question..lol I had to get up and conjure an imaginary opponent for that one, and there's a million right answers. If my right foot is forward probably right bill jee to the eyes. If left forward probably right tan and left punch while shifting onto that left foot into the outside gate(plus hella power in shifting..which is what people don't always get..) if square probably the same thing as left forward but up the middle.

I was never taught exact specific times to do moves, as we actually did spar, and did get to the point where our sparring actually was wc. (Harder than it sounds). We drilled stuff but generally there was 15 ways to deal with everything.

 

[KPM]

^^^^ Footwork and "neutral energy" is starting to sound much more like Leung Sheung lineage.

 

[geezer]

Well I did a WT for a couple of years and it was soft contact and more about thinking forward than physically doing it. But, yeah I have seen EBMAS stuff and can see there is springy energy there. But if I were to look at, say, Tassos, I can't see it.

Don't know about Tassos. I trained with Leung Ting in the States. What you say about "thinking forward" is what I call forward intent, as compared to forward pressure. Our WT is usually trained with light forward pressure.

 

[Martial D]

We always trained light pressure, but not always forward. If his pressure is forward, mine will retreat. Not straight back but slightly diagonal and back. If his energy retreats, I follow, either straight in and through or again, slightly diagonal. Feeling where the energy is was key.

Bruce used to make us fall flat on our faces by luring us in and doing a shift/lop even when we knew it was coming. Learning to read energy intent was probably the single most useful skill wc gave me.

 

[DanT]

Those are some solid questions.

The t step was described to me as when stepping to bring the heel back to the center of the back foot(I think as a transition) making a T.

The footwork I was taught was a sort of triangle, from your basic sit on your bones front facing stance (50/50) to a more 90/10(front leg nearly weightless) by bringing the feet together parallel and then back out. The net effect was stepping around and setting up shifts to trap and attack.

That combined with a sort of drag step(again, I don't remember much of the chinese.) Where the weight never comes off the back foot.

As for your second question..lol I had to get up and conjure an imaginary opponent for that one, and there's a million right answers. If my right foot is forward probably right bill jee to the eyes. If left forward probably right tan and left punch while shifting onto that left foot into the outside gate(plus hella power in shifting..which is what people don't always get..) if square probably the same thing as left forward but up the middle.

I was never taught exact specific times to do moves, as we actually did spar, and did get to the point where our sparring actually was wc. (Harder than it sounds). We drilled stuff but generally there was 15 ways to deal with everything.

Dragging step is usually called Toh Bo in most southern systems I've studied.