Looking for a Kata

[Stealthy]

I was hoping somebody would know a Muto-Dori kata I am looking for.


The opponent thrusts very low with either a Katana or Spear.

Move back and away.

The opponents second attack is...I don't know...if there are more than one Kata that would be great.

While the opponent does the second attack the defender.....?


All insights greatly appreciated.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

 

[Dean Whittle]

That sounds like a lot of kata ... got anything more specific?

With respect

 

[Stealthy]

That sounds like a lot of kata ... got anything more specific?

Sure,


How about just kata from Koto Ryu?


With Respect,
Stealthy.

 

[shirobanryunotora]

I was hoping somebody would know a Muto-Dori kata I am looking for.


The opponent thrusts very low with either a Katana or Spear.

Move back and away.

The opponents second attack is...I don't know...if there are more than one Kata that would be great.

While the opponent does the second attack the defender.....?


All insights greatly appreciated.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

Hi-not sure exactly if the following will be helpful.

When in japan went to a bookshop that Andrew Macdonald knew of and bought a book by Soke Hatsumi on Spear work.This book is the one that contains pics of the Tengu teaching techniques.As i do not know enough of the language am not sure what ryu etc is being shown though several scrolls and many techniques are shown in the book.

Am at local library at moment so do not have it at hand though will look at when home and see if can find something that seems applicable-will keep you informed-
till the next rr

 

[gregtca]

It could be any of these ,

Sokuboku
Bokuhen
Damara
Shuriki
Kiibo
Batsuyu
Sekiryoku​

Kwahi

Bit difficult to say , depends on many things , including the teacher of the technique, it might be henka , see if i can be more help when i get out of work,

Greg

 

[Stealthy]

Fantastic thanks.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Stealthy,

If we are looking at Koto Ryu, then only Bokuhen and Kuahi fit the bill (thrust, follow up cut), rather than any of the others. I'm starting to go through the Hekito Gata from Koto Ryu for my guys this month, starting in an hour and a half or so (sorry, Greg, not any of the others there, as none feature a continuous attack). Both involve a leap back from Hira Ichimonji, and moving in against a follow-up cut (in Bokuhen you move in underneath, strike, and take down, in Kuahi - I've seen it spelt a few ways, by the way, including "Kuhi" in Hatsumi's book - you evade beneath a horizontal cut and leap up to kick). In Gyokko Ryu there is Iai Fuji, against a draw and follow up cut, again leap back and then in to jam and strike; Takagi Yoshin has a couple similar, and so on. But you've most likely only been exposed to the Koto ones, or possibly the Gyokko Ryu kata, so my money is on Bokuhen or Kuahi.

Robert, I have that book too, it's really nothing to do with the subject here as it is the Sojutsu kata from Kukishinden Ryu, rather than any Muto Dori patterns being shown. That said, if I'm reading the kanji correctly, the Tengu pictures look like they come from the scroll of Saburi Ryu Sojutsu, seen here:

[yt]n5d27aWXv4w[/yt]

It actually matches the pictures pretty well, I feel.

And, just cause I like this one as well....

[yt]qsyZm2_9KE8[/yt]

 

[Stealthy]

Ah yes Kuahi, I do believe that is the one I was looking for.

True story, a friend of mine did Kuahi on the street and it worked.

He sent the guy absolutely flying, shortly thereafter my friend was crash tackled and it turned into a wrestling match though.

It was a very long time ago, my friend grew up in the Phillipines and trained as a youth so while it was not "Ninjutsu" it certainly was the move.

Leaping double thrust kick straight to the chest.

Thanks for the help everyone.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

 

[Chris Parker]

Yeah, figured it was Kuahi, it's the only one that starts with a thrust... although there is no spear variant, and the thrust isn't low, it's to the chest or throat.

That said, out of interest, why did you want to know? You're not currently attending classes, are you, so a defence against a sword attack isn't really relevant in most cases, or was it just one of those 'on the tip of your memory' things?

 

[Stealthy]

That said, out of interest, why did you want to know? You're not currently attending classes, are you, so a defence against a sword attack isn't really relevant in most cases, or was it just one of those 'on the tip of your memory' things?

I may not be back at class yet but it is my intention to attend when my abilities(free-spar with Ninjutsu seamlessly against un-nominated attacks at a realistic pace) and general fitness(not brandishing a pot belly) are at a level I am happy with.

Fortunately I have found someone to drill techniques and spar with, his fitness is high from hitting the gym every day but it is not really a Martial Arts kind of fitness so for the time being I have to go easy on him. Also while he has done some boxing and wrestling before and has a passion for MMA there is still a steep learning curve to get him up to free-sparring level.

The home training program I am working on at the moment(given to me by someone up here we both know and trust), is made up of Nine Koto Ryu kata, three of which are Muto-Dori. While Kuahi is not among them I did have cause to ponder what the kata is for an otherwise immobilizing low attack with a long weapon.

With Respect,
Stealthy.

 

[shirobanryunotora]

Hi Chris-well where do i start?? Much thanks and appreciation for supplying all those vids. Yes indeed, the looks of the technique(s) appears to correctly reflect the Tengu pics.Am glad you have the book too as whilst practicing the techniques i was at a loss to name them etc to other students.

May i ask who your ninpo instructor is/was?
Also who is/was your scroll instructor?(if diff. than above)

Am aware you may not want to share your source(s) but where did you get these vids? Soon as i started watching them i got some "japan flashbacks" which brought a HUGE smile to my face and made me wish i was there again. Thankyou.

Btw,can you please tell me the full name the book?

Lastly, please have a look at page 134 of the book. See the expression on the face of the sword wielding opponent(Shihan Ishizuka?) as Soke Hatsumi's spear technique breaks the sword? Well, that looked like mine when i realised you may have correctly identified the tengu pics!!

Arrigato gozaimasu Chris-san-till the next rr

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Robert,

When you talk about "naming the techniques to students", do you mean the kata that Hatsumi Sensei presents in the book, or the pictures in the Saburi Ryu scroll? If the former, it's the Kukishinden Ryu Sojutsu kata, the names are as follows:

Kaisetsu Gata:
- Kanpo
- Shiho Waza
- Hicho Kaku
- Hito Tsukiai
- Itto Santo
- Hassai
- Hiso
- Ten Chi Kaku
- Happo Yaku

Gokui Gata:
- Ichimonji
- Kiku Sui
- Kancho
- Kisasu
- Hi Ryu
- Tsuki Buse
- Kage Cho
- Satsu Gyoku
- Kyoba

Menkyo Kaiden Hencho Gata:
- O To
- Ryu Ze
- Tomoe
- Chogi
- Arashi
- Shin Myo
- Taki Otoshi
- Yoko Nage
- Tate Nage
- Nichi Getsu

along with a couple of extra teachings at the back (note: these kata names change depending on the source).

If you're using the scroll pictures, they look to me to be out of order, and are not showing kata, just pictures of parts of them. So I wouldn't be using them as a source for anything, really.

The full name of the book (Hatsumi Sensei's) is Budo Sensho: Sojutsu (Select Book of Martial Arts - Spear Techniques).

In terms of my instructor, I am a student of Wayne Roy, my personal instructor was Richard Coote until I took over the Melbourne school from him. I have no "scroll instructor", just a number of Japanese books, a kanji dictionary, and a lot of stubborness.... and, some have suggested, a feel for language and these arts. So it all kinda comes together there....

 

[Stealthy]

So it all kinda comes together there....

And apparently very well.

 

[Chris Parker]

Hi Robert,

Sorry, I seem to have missed this one earlier:

Am aware you may not want to share your source(s) but where did you get these vids? Soon as i started watching them i got some "japan flashbacks" which brought a HUGE smile to my face and made me wish i was there again. Thankyou.

Ha, I got them from a little known site called you-tube.... once I had figured out the name of the Ryu-ha from the kanji in Hatsumi's book (the page before the pictures has a shot of the scroll rolled up, with the name next to it of Saburi Sojutsu E Maki Hikan - Saburi Spear Techniques Picture Scroll, Secret Volume), then it was just a matter of putting "Saburi Ryu Sojutsu" into the search engine.

Just a clarification, though, these are nothing to do with the traditions of the Bujinkan, Hatsumi Sensei, Ninjutsu, or anything similar. They are a completely unrelated Ryu-ha which Hatsumi Sensei happens to own some documentation from, and he used to illustrate his book on the Kukishinden Ryu Sojutsu methods, so attributing these pictures to "Tengu teaching Ninja" as in your other thread is a bit off as well.

That said, glad I could help.

 

[shirobanryunotora]

Hi Chris-excellent clarification on the details requested and much appreciated.

Now am aware too why the tengu pics didnt seem to flow!
Thanks too for the tip on who the Tengu were showing this to. I must keep in mind that Soke Hatsumi often has much more than the "bujinkan" ryu to show.

Yes, was both the kata and the pics that i was interested in so the listing you provided on the Kukishinden Ryu Sojutsu kata cleared that up.Am still being amazed at what can be found at some sites etc.Again thanks much and your interpretive skills much appreciated too.Keep on being "stubborn" in this regard.Till the next-rr

 

[Chris Parker]

Incidentally, if you are interested in the Sojutsu of Kukishin Ryu, there is also Hatsumi's DVD (or the old VHS if you can find it... pretty much the same on both, though), or his latest book ("Essence of Budo") features the kata for the Sojutsu (as well as the Naginatajutsu, Bisentojutsu, and Juttejutsu) written in a similar fashion to the Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu and Jojutsu in "Advanced Stick Fighting", the Kukishin Ryu Biken and Kodachi (and Gyokko Ryu Muto Dori Ge Ryaku no Maki) in "Japanese Sword Fighting", and the Taijutsu kata in "Unarmed Fighting Techniques of the Samurai". So not the easiest to follow, unless you already know them, but a good reference none the less.

 

[Stealthy]

Incidentally, if you are interested in the Sojutsu of Kukishin Ryu, there is also Hatsumi's DVD (or the old VHS if you can find it... pretty much the same on both, though), or his latest book ("Essence of Budo") features the kata for the Sojutsu (as well as the Naginatajutsu, Bisentojutsu, and Juttejutsu) written in a similar fashion to the Kukishin Ryu Bojutsu and Jojutsu in "Advanced Stick Fighting", the Kukishin Ryu Biken and Kodachi (and Gyokko Ryu Muto Dori Ge Ryaku no Maki) in "Japanese Sword Fighting", and the Taijutsu kata in "Unarmed Fighting Techniques of the Samurai". So not the easiest to follow, unless you already know them, but a good reference none the less.

Sweet, I just picked that one up yesterday, hope you don't mind if I pick your brain on it a bit when I've read it :ubercool: