Long/exaggerated/deep stances... unhealthy?

[_Simon_]

My instructor was of the "everyone uses the same stance" camp, and I have the same issue you have (duck feet). I started paying attention to knees, instead, in those stances, and now teach students to select the correct stance/usage, rather than dictating the stance. In fact, in testing, if I see a stance other than what I normally teach, I ask why they used it. If they have a reasonable answer, then I allow it. If they don't (whether the stance is acceptable or not), then they're not ready yet.

Yeah it's funny the cookie-cutter approach.. I mean all bodies are generally the same, but all bodies are not specifically the same .

I'll keep that in mind.. and if I'm corrected to have my foot pointing perfectly forwards I'll bring it up, and see what happens.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Yeah it's funny the cookie-cutter approach.. I mean all bodies are generally the same, but all bodies are not specifically the same .

I'll keep that in mind.. and if I'm corrected to have my foot pointing perfectly forwards I'll bring it up, and see what happens.

IMO, there should be more focus on "why". My instructor was taught to use a deep version of our basic stance. He's 6'3" and his legs are long, even for his height. He needs deep stances. If the Hobbit (something just over 6" tall, I think) uses those same stances, they aren't performing the proper function.

 

[dvcochran]

Thanks dvcochran, appreciate the thoughts .

Yeah I guess as always it depends... on the individual body, how often the stances are used, the technique of the style etc..

I just want to be training for longevity, and instructors can often teach how they were trained and not be aware of long term implications. And often these things are accumulative, even if stances don't look super extreme, it's possible how they're done can be damaging..

I'll just not go crazy with my stances then .

I hear you. I strongly believe consistency plays a huge role. People who start working out then stop for a while, then start, then stop, then start, etc... are at the greatest risk of injury. Especially the 'unseen' injuries that accumulate over time as you describe.

We (me) all too often impulsively do things like rapid exercise/movement when we are 20 with little or no thought. While my 40+ year old mind really, really believed I could still do the same thing(s), and I often did, later on my body paid a price. I have most likely contributed to some of my knee issues from living an overly active life.

I do think there is a problem in eastern style traditional training when out of shape people are pushed into things like deep stances from the start and for too long. It needs to be incremental to get the muscles, ligature, and joints conditioned. Just like lifting weights. Jumping on another post, this is an excellent example of what the belt system is for.

If you are a physics person, think of the effects of a fulcrum. The longer the tip of the lever is from center the greater the mass.
Some people will never get comfortable in deep stances. That is genetics and anatomy at play. But most all people, over quality time, will learn how to do them correctly, and effectively.

I would also strongly say listen to your body as much or more than you listen to your Sensei in this regard. You are a person of experience. Fully listen to the information given but know you body's limits and protect it. If Sensei is wise he/she will know when to push and when not to.

 

[Kung Fu Wang]

certainly it does, if you've trained it properly. Why do you assume nobody trains it properly?

I have met with people who train form only, and nothing else.

If your form only have large move and you only train form and nothing else, when will you have chance to train small move?

I have asked many Yang Taiji guys about the application of this move. None of them could explain.

Form:

- Both arms are straight.
- Both palms are facing down.

Application:

- Both arms are bending.
- One palm is facing up, another palm is facing down.

 

[Flying Crane]

I have met with people who train form only (nothing else).

If your form only have large move and you only train form and nothing else, when will you have chance to train small move?

I have asked many Yang Taiji guys about the application of this move. None of them could explain.

Form:

- Both arms are straight.
- Both palms are facing down.

Application:

- Both arms are bending.
- One palm is facing up, another palm is facing down.

then they are training poorly. Following the form exactly and blindly, with never putting any thought into what you are doing, never considering how the material may be applied, never considering how application may change from form, is piss poor training.

 

[Buka]

then they are training poorly. Following the form exactly and blindly, with never putting any thought into what you are doing, never considering how the material may be applied, never considering how application may change from form, is piss poor training.

Well said I think. I believe once a person has a significant amount of experience under his belt that attitude should be used in every aspect of the arts.

One of my instructors always put a twist on the old adage "You can lead a horse to water but you can't make him think."

 

[_Simon_]

I hear you. I strongly believe consistency plays a huge role. People who start working out then stop for a while, then start, then stop, then start, etc... are at the greatest risk of injury. Especially the 'unseen' injuries that accumulate over time as you describe.

We (me) all too often impulsively do things like rapid exercise/movement when we are 20 with little or no thought. While my 40+ year old mind really, really believed I could still do the same thing(s), and I often did, later on my body paid a price. I have most likely contributed to some of my knee issues from living an overly active life.

I do think there is a problem in eastern style traditional training when out of shape people are pushed into things like deep stances from the start and for too long. It needs to be incremental to get the muscles, ligature, and joints conditioned. Just like lifting weights. Jumping on another post, this is an excellent example of what the belt system is for.

If you are a physics person, think of the effects of a fulcrum. The longer the tip of the lever is from center the greater the mass.
Some people will never get comfortable in deep stances. That is genetics and anatomy at play. But most all people, over quality time, will learn how to do them correctly, and effectively.

I would also strongly say listen to your body as much or more than you listen to your Sensei in this regard. You are a person of experience. Fully listen to the information given but know you body's limits and protect it. If Sensei is wise he/she will know when to push and when not to.

Very well said, thanks