Lineage

[be_like_water]

Hi all. This is just a thought. I know that we all learn from a different lineage, and thus having different strengths and weaknesses. What are your opinions on different lineages and do you think that all lineages should unite? Do you think we could learn a lot from each other? I am studying the Lee Shing lineage from Sifu Austin Goh. What are your thoughts of this lineage?

 

[geezer]

Hi all. This is just a thought. I know that we all learn from a different lineage, and thus having different strengths and weaknesses. What are your opinions on different lineages and do you think that all lineages should unite?

Unite? Hell no. Then we couldn't go around each smugly knowing that we are the best! LOL

Seriously... there is a deep rooted individualism in all the CMA. Each style, sub-style and branch trying to come up with a version that's better than the others. Without that dis-unity, we wouldn't have the magnificent variety of CMAs. I like the variety of the way things are... although sometimes it might be nice to see a little more mutual respect.

 

[cwk]

I've never understood all the lineage bashing that goes on. Each to their own I say.
one of the reasons I chose to post on this forum is the lack of that kind of stuff, it's like a breath of fresh air.

 

[dosk3n]

I dont think that lineages should join at all. Its has its own merits such as Ip Ching and Ip Chun have different tan positions. Both have a rational reason behind this so if you were to merge how would you chose which is better or more important.

The variation is great and gives us all somthing to talk about. As long as we all respect each others lineage and know each others version of the form works for a reason then everything works. Gives us all reason to meet up, train together and discuss.

Its just the few true believers that think there way is the only way that spoils things.

 

[cwk]

I agree with dosk3n.
I love seeing other peoples take on the system, especially as the wing chun I study is quite different from most.
here's me doing a version of our SLT.

 

[geezer]

I agree with dosk3n.
I love seeing other peoples take on the system, especially as the wing chun I study is quite different from most.
here's me doing a version of our SLT.

OK, now that was different! Not only some different movements from the well known Yip Man lineage, but also containing some elements of all three forms plus dummy movements all rolled together. For example, I saw most of the movements commonly associated with the Yip Man SNT. I also noticed the "wagging fingers", biu tze saus, double "grappling hands", and some elbows which I associate with Biu Tze Form. Then, there's the front thrust kick, turns, upper cutting punches, double "piercing hands" and movements more commonly seen in Chum Kiu, and then again the po-pai palms from the Dummy set. In addition, there are other sequences that seem almost like Silat to me. Curiously, although two of the traditional "seed techniques" of tan sau and fook sau, (and the "saam pai fut" sequence) were performed, I didn't see the third "seed", bong sau, anywhere... at least in a form that I could recognize. And lastly, I noticed that many of your centerline extending movements such as fook sau are done with three slight bobbing motions as they move forward, as though the movements are divided into thirds. I see from the title that this was shot in Thailand? but I believe I recall another reference to this lineage mentioning Singapore. What more can you tell us about it?

 

[Vajramusti]

Some opinions FWIW on parts of this thread, without intentions to offend,

1. I don't know what "unity" would be in wing chun-to much water gone under and past the bridge and going in so many different directions..

2. I don't always understand what people mean by "lineage"- it once used to
have reliable meaning in traditional pre- Mao Chinese culture.Ip man listed Chan Wah Shun as his sifu because he was Ip man's first teacher- though he learned much more from his kung fu elder brothers and from Leung Bik.

Nowadays too often people list someone as their sifu when they have met that person briefly. or has been a long distance learner or have attended some seminars. And nowadays in the world of video swapping-lots of mish mash in the stew.

joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

 

[dosk3n]

Some opinions FWIW on parts of this thread, without intentions to offend,

1. I don't know what "unity" would be in wing chun-to much water gone under and past the bridge and going in so many different directions..

2. I don't always understand what people mean by "lineage"- it once used to
have reliable meaning in traditional pre- Mao Chinese culture.Ip man listed Chan Wah Shun as his sifu because he was Ip man's first teacher- though he learned much more from his kung fu elder brothers and from Leung Bik.

Nowadays too often people list someone as their sifu when they have met that person briefly. or has been a long distance learner or have attended some seminars. And nowadays in the world of video swapping-lots of mish mash in the stew.

joy chaudhuri
www.tempewingchun.com

Agree completly. Lineage is going to keep getting watered down and there are a lot of people as you said that will train for a couple of months with someone and say that this is there sifu just to look better.

I think it is fine to say you have another Sifu if you have trained under this person for at least a year but if you are going to describe your lineage tree you should at least mention both Sifu's.

My Sifu trained private under Ip Chun and Ip Ching for over 5 years and he mentions both of them in his lineage tree.

 

[be_like_water]

Thanks for your thoughts. I am just wondering if anybody is in search for the original Wing Chun. As in, what the Ng Mui passed on to Yim Wing Chun. However I feel this maybe an impossible task.

 

[Punchy]

Thanks for your thoughts. I am just wondering if anybody is in search for the original Wing Chun. As in, what the Ng Mui passed on to Yim Wing Chun. However I feel this maybe an impossible task.

I think if we were to see the original WC we would be a bit disappointed.
I think "Ng Mui" (or insert your founder here) laid the ground work and from there it evolved.
Don't misunderstand me, I'm sure the old timers' skills were something to behold, but I would place even money on some of the legitimate masters of our era.
It's one of those things we'll never know....kind of like could Ali have beat Rocky Marciano or was Honus Wagner a better shortstop than Jeter?

BTW, check out Sergio Iadorola on you tube. He does a lot of compare/ contrast type stuff in regard to different lineages.

 

[geezer]

I think if we were to see the original WC we would be a bit disappointed...

You might be right. The early stuff evolved in a very narrow environment. Three hundred years ago people didn't normally travel around much, and regional kung fu styles probably emerged much like regional dialects or accents, reflecting the local culture. Even very accomplished Chinese boxers wouldn't often be exposed to the wide-ranging approaches to unarmed combat that a serious practitioner today will encounter. On the other hand, the early Chinese masters may have benefited from living with less distractions and a more single-minded focus on developing their specialized skills. In some ways that's a pretty good description of WC. A narrow river that runs deep.

 

[cwk]

You might be right. The early stuff evolved in a very narrow environment. Three hundred years ago people didn't normally travel around much, and regional kung fu styles probably emerged much like regional dialects or accents, reflecting the local culture. Even very accomplished Chinese boxers wouldn't often be exposed to the wide-ranging approaches to unarmed combat that a serious practitioner today will encounter. On the other hand, the early Chinese masters may have benefited from living with less distractions and a more single-minded focus on developing their specialized skills. In some ways that's a pretty good description of WC. A narrow river that runs deep.

This is very true from what I've seen.
I live in the south of Thailand near the Malaysian border and our school is always receiving visits from old chinese masters from Malaysia.
Most of these guys have spent their entire lives studying only one art and their level of skill is usually incredible. The main thing I've noticed is their power generation is just so natural and relaxed, no matter what style they are from.
I the most memorable thing for me is seeing a 80+ year old Jow Gar master punch a solid concrete wall,full power and not bat an eyelid.
awesome.